Repair issues and fixes

[lars2885]

My what a fascinating thread! Thanks to the previous posters. I'll make the obvious comment that installing a drain plug magnet should help reduce ferrous particles but will do nothing to remove aluminum. I'm sure those posting here know this but casual readers might think a drain magnet is a panacea. I do wonder whether another source of aluminum in the oil might just be the interior of the gearbox case. As Yuri Niro said, the mass reported by analysis is not large. Might some of it it be residual dust left by machining during the manufacturing process? or from erosion into the circulating oil? 69 mg is only about 0.025 cubic centimetres.

 

[KiwiME]

Hmm, I'd be a bit depressed if anyone suspected aluminium was attracted to a magnet! In any case it's true that not the aluminium itself that is the issue, it's where it came from, given that a common Kona/Niro complaint is a clicking or tapping noise during deceleration. The hope is that the aluminium did not come from the wearing down of a bearing housing, an early indicator of a "spun" bearing possibly eventuating in a noise.

I'm doubting that adding the magnetic drain plug will avoid the above clicking problem because it seems to be due to a motor alignment defect, but it may very well reduce the chances of an internal failure of the gear reducer such as seen in the Russian video.

... the aluminium content found was 1/22 of one washer, a 16° portion of the circle.
Hopefully it was just burrs and casting flash.

 

[R P]

Changed my gearbox oil today at the dealer. Black as black can be. 25K kms since my reduction gearbox was replaced (along with the motor). They filled with non-synthetic 75W90 gear oil which they said is the same as used in the differentials.

 

[KiwiME]

...They filled with non-synthetic 75W90 gear oil which they said is the same as used in the differentials...

That's great that you got the oil changed but I wonder why the technician took it upon themselves to use a different weight to that specified? Perhaps they didn't check?

75W-90 is considerably thicker than 70W specified or the closest available 70W-75 that some of us are using, 99 vs 38 cSt @ 40°C, more than twice. The gearbox will normally run between ambient temperature and around 40°C.

I had considered trying a heavier oil as an experiment in my own Kona during summer here (to see if it runs quieter) because kWh/100km economy is less important to me, one of the two reasons why the specified oil is as light as an ATF. But the second reason is the unique lube requirements of the motor pinion (gear) spinning up to 10,000 RPM while still having to cater for highly-loaded diff spider gears at around zero RPM. A thin oil lessens the risk of severe oil cavitation as the high-speed gears separate. Cavitation can slowly damage the gear tooth faces.

It might be just fine other than a loss in economy, but given that you're in Canada and it's winter, I'd be listening carefully for a whining noise that you haven't heard before. If you do hear it I'd advise asking the dealer to change it to the correct oil. If you don't hear a noise that's good and if any issues arise down the road it's the dealer's responsibility. In any case having two oil changes is not a bad thing as both OzKona and I noticed that it takes that to clear the discolouration. Sorry to give you this warning after you've made the effort to get the oil changed but it's best you're aware of this.

 

[R P]

That's great that you got the oil changed but I wonder why the technician took it upon themselves to use a different weight to that specified? Perhaps they didn't check?

75W-90 is considerably thicker than 70W specified or the closest available 70W-75 that some of us are using, 99 vs 38 cSt @ 40°C, more than twice. The gearbox will normally run between ambient temperature and around 40°C.

I had considered trying a heavier oil as an experiment in my own Kona during summer here (to see if it runs quieter) because kWh/100km economy is less important to me, one of the two reasons why the specified oil is as light as an ATF. But the second reason is the unique lube requirements of the motor pinion (gear) spinning up to 10,000 RPM while still having to cater for highly-loaded diff spider gears at around zero RPM. A thin oil lessens the risk of severe oil cavitation as the high-speed gears separate. Cavitation can slowly damage the gear tooth faces.

It might be just fine other than a loss in economy, but given that you're in Canada and it's winter, I'd be listening carefully for a whining noise that you haven't heard before. If you do hear it I'd advise asking the dealer to change it to the correct oil. If you don't hear a noise that's good and if any issues arise down the road it's the dealer's responsibility. In any case having two oil changes is not a bad thing as both OzKona and I noticed that it takes that to clear the discolouration. Sorry to give you this warning after you've made the effort to get the oil changed but it's best you're aware of this.

I asked them about that, but he said the thicker oil is fine, and what they used in all of their reduction gearbox replacements. I was the first one to ask to have the oil changed. Haven't driven it that much yet, but don't notice any diff.

 

[R P]

I asked them about that, but he said the thicker oil is fine, and what they used in all of their reduction gearbox replacements. I was the first one to ask to have the oil changed. Haven't driven it that much yet, but don't notice any diff.

Update:
I thought more about what KiwiMe said, and decided to call another dealer to see what they say about using a diff oil than spec. They said, absolutely not OK, need to use the OEM spec oil, 70W synthetic. So I called the dealer back that did the change, and they said they would check into it further. Got a call back shortly, and said they made a mistake, should have used the OEM spec oil. So they booked me in again this morning to get it changed again, at no charge, even though the OEM oil was more expensive.

This time the invoice showed part #04300 KX1B0, Trans Fluid. Can someone verify that this is indeed the correct oil. I am still not sure whether I can trust these guys. And don't understand why the tech yesterday told me the 75W90 differential oil was OK. Extremely careless or just lazy? And when I questioned him, he said they didn't have the OEM stuff in stock and this was OK as a substitute. Obviously today, they did have it, so that couldn't have been true either.

As an aside, it snowed 10 cms last night here and had a bit of a challenge getting out of our side street that has a hill at the end. This is the first time my Kona has seen snow. Anyway almost made it to the top, when the TCS brought it to a stop, and had to back down. I disengaged the TCS (just a button push) and tried again, and made it up no problem.

Back to the gear oil, I got them to save me some from this change as well. And it is still quite black, but not quite as bad as the stuff from yesterday. It is noticeably thicker, too. The original was more like water viscosity.

Anyway, thanks again to KiwiMe for giving that additional info.

 

[markintosh13]

Update:
This time the invoice showed part #04300 KX1B0, Trans Fluid. Can someone verify that this is indeed the correct oil.
View attachment 14652

at least that's a 70W

 

[electriceddy]

Free flush
looks like the right part#:
Agregate Recomeded fluid Capacity (L) Intervals
1,0L gasoline turbo engine (G3LC) 0W-30 or 5W-30 or 5W-40 ACEA C2; API Latest 3,6 7500 km (4500 miles) or 6 months, whichever comes first
1,6L gasoline turbo engine (G4FJ) 0W-30 or 5W-30 or 5W-40 ACEA C2; API Latest 4,5 Europe: 7500 km (4500 miles) or 6 months, whichever comes first
USA/Canada: 4500 km (3000 miles) or 6 months, whichever comes first
1,6L gasoline engine (G4LE, Hybrid) 0W-30 or 5W-30 or 5W-40 ACEA A5/B5; API Latest 3,8 7500 km (4500 miles) or 6 months, whichever comes first
2,0L gasoline engine (G4NH) 5W-20 or 5W-30 API Latest 4,0 Europe: 7500 km (4500 miles) or 6 months, whichever comes first
USA/Canada: 6000 km (3750 miles) or 6 months, whichever comes first
2,0L gasoline turbo engine (G4KH, Kona N)
1,6L diesel engine (D4FB) 0W-30 or 5W-30 ACEA C5 or C3 4,4 15000 km (10000 miles) or 12 months, whichever comes first
Manual and DCT gearbox HYUNDAI MTF&DCTF SAE 70W API GL-4
p/n: 04300-KX1B0 or 00232-1906 1,6 - 2,0 120000 km (80000 miles)
Automatic gearbox HYUNDAI ATF SP-IV 6,7 Europe: 120000 km (80000 miles)
USA/Canada: 100000 km (60000 miles)
Brake and Clutch FMVSS116 DOT-3 or DOT-4 0,8 30000 km or 24 months, whichever comes first
Urea (Diesel) ISO22241, DIN70070 12,0
Reduction gear (Kona Electric) HYUNDAI MTF&DCTF SAE 70W API GL-4
p/n: 04300-KX1B0 or 00232-1906 1,1 120000 km (75000 miles)
Transfer case 75W/90 HYPOID GEAR OIL API GL-5 0,52 120000 km (75000 miles)
Rear differential 75W/90 HYPOID GEAR OIL API GL-5 0,52 120000 km (75000 miles)
Coolant (1,0L T-GDI and 2,0L MPI) Ethylene-glycol with phosphate based coolant for aluminium radiator 6,5 - 6,8 First replace at 210000 km or 120 months, after that every 30000 km or 24 months
Coolant (1,6L T-GDI) Ethylene-glycol with phosphate based coolant for aluminium radiator 7,1 First replace at 210000 km or 120 months, after that every 30000 km or 24 months
Coolant (1,6L Diesel) Ethylene-glycol with phosphate based coolant for aluminium radiator 7,8 First replace at 210000 km or 120 months, after that every 30000 km or 24 months
Coolant (Kona Hybrid) Ethylene-glycol with phosphate based coolant for aluminium radiator 6,0 - engine coolant
2,4 - inverter coolant First replace at 210000 km or 120 months, after that every 30000 km or 24 months
Coolant (Kona Electric) Ethylene-glycol with phosphate based coolant for aluminium radiator 12,5 - 13,4 First replace at 210000 km or 96 months, after that every 30000 k
https://oils-finder.com/index.php?model_code=kona17

Notice the coolant on the bottom line, not sure if it is the green or blue
I am booked for Jan 4th, I will call now to make sure they have the right stuff

 

[KiwiME]

Update:
I thought more about what KiwiMe said, and decided to call another dealer to see what they say about using a diff oil than spec. They said, absolutely not OK, need to use the OEM spec oil, 70W synthetic. So I called the dealer back that did the change, and they said they would check into it further. Got a call back shortly, and said they made a mistake, should have used the OEM spec oil. So they booked me in again this morning to get it changed again, at no charge, even though the OEM oil was more expensive.

This time the invoice showed part #04300 KX1B0, Trans Fluid. Can someone verify that this is indeed the correct oil. I am still not sure whether I can trust these guys. And don't understand why the tech yesterday told me the 75W90 differential oil was OK. Extremely careless or just lazy? And when I questioned him, he said they didn't have the OEM stuff in stock and this was OK as a substitute. Obviously today, they did have it, so that couldn't have been true either.
...
Back to the gear oil, I got them to save me some from this change as well. And it is still quite black, but not quite as bad as the stuff from yesterday. It is noticeably thicker, too. The original was more like water viscosity.

Anyway, thanks again to KiwiMe for giving that additional info.

Well handled, good thing you checked! Of course it's not OK for them to ignore the factory spec, especially just because the correct stuff wasn't in stock. Yes, the DCT trans fluid is what dealers normally install, and it's as thin as ATF.

A little bit of the original fill would have been trapped in the housing. Myself, OzKona and now Tom in Southern California have all done second changes and found the same discolouration. Really nothing to be alarmed about.

It was a mistake on their part and they got called out, so have learned a lesson at their expense. I'd be reluctant to be too harsh on them because it's true that 75W-90 is a common transaxle oil and they may not be too experienced with EVs. But they should also understand that specifications are there for a reason and a certain amount of technical knowledge is required to understand when substitutions can be made.

 

[R P]

Thanks to both electriceddy and KiwiMe for confirming the oil. I feel better now...

 

[navguy12]

Finally did my reduction gear oil swap out this afternoon.

At 8776 km, the fluid was black like everyone else’s.

The 1.15 litres of Redline Synthetic GL-4 that I installed today is listed as 75W-80.

My modified drain/filler plugs:



I used a small square of 3M double sided tape just to make sure any sort of vibration doesn’t somehow dislodge the rare earth magnets.

I used two magnets per plug:

 

[electriceddy]

Finally did my reduction gear oil swap out this afternoon.

At 8776 km, the fluid was black like everyone else’s.

The 1.15 litres of Redline Synthetic GL-4 that I installed today is listed as 75W-80.

My modified drain/filler plugs:

View attachment 14662

I used a small square of 3M double sided tape just to make sure any sort of vibration doesn’t somehow dislodge the rare earth magnets.

I used two magnets per plug:

View attachment 14661

Wonderful job with the magnets, one question...why use 75W when confirmed above ^^^70W is spec'd

 

[KiwiME]

It's actually a dash 80. The viscosity is 50 cSt @40°C, not far off the 38 of 70W-75.

 

[OzKona]

While pondering the oil dripping out of the drain opening a thought occurred to me. It's easy to check for loose final drive bearings while the drain plug is out.
Place one pinky finger fully into the drain opening and touch the gear wheel. With other hand grab either axle and shake it vigorously up and down. The axle shaft will be loose where it splines into the diff carrier but the gear wheel inside should not move - which was fortunately the case with mine.

The gear wheel inside the gearbox should not move radially (up and down) when you shake the axle, despite that the axle shakes inside the gearbox because it's splined. It's a good go/no-go test. If it did move you'd be off to the dealer demanding a new gear reducer.

When my second plug arrives I will do that test. Thanks. It will be after Christmas I think.

Just got a message from Amazon - second plug returned to sender as undeliverable and refund issued. WTF? Same account, same address as all my other Amazon purchases over the years. I think it's an Australia Post issue. I had a tracking number from AP which gave a delivery date, then a second delivery date then ... nothing. Wife posted a parcel to a friend in Canada mid November. Today (24th Dec) AP tracking says it is still in Sydney!! Australia Post is a hopeless joke.

[Off Topic:] Tracking says wife's parcel arrived in Canada today (but not to the addressee.) Whooppee.

On receipt of Amazon's message I re-ordered my second plug. This time Aus Post found me. They are now searching their tracking for the lost plug. I will put them out of their misery and tell them that Amazon has it, and will hit them up for the $20 in lost postage - Amazon refunded the purchase price but not the postage.[/Off Topic]

Have just installed the plug and topped off the fluid - last time I put an exact 1 litre in. Today I put more in until it ran out the filler hole - about 70ml.

I feel more at ease now with two magnetic plugs.

Happy New Year to all.

 

[navguy12]

Wonderful job with the magnets, one question...why use 75W when confirmed above ^^^70W is spec'd

All I could get in the Redline synthetic was the 75W-80.

Rant:

I can’t justify the >$CAD 52 (plus HST) price for 0.95 litres of the OEM 70W product.

I figure the car lives in a heated garage and is >90% used for local trips, so any hit in operating economy will be less than the price delta between the Redline product and the OEM product.

It’s like what Hyundai wants for a litre of the “blue” coolant.

The whole Hyundai “scheduled maintenance” thing, for what is supposed to be by nature a low maintenance device (compared to ICE), really seems set up to be just another profit center to appease the dealership network.

End rant.

 

[hobbit]

Navguy -- for your magnets-on-the-outside thing, did you happen to check how much perceptible
magnetism that actually created on the *inner* surface of the plug before installing/refilling?

_H*

 

[R P]

I can’t justify the >$CAD 52 (plus HST) price for 0.95 litres of the OEM 70W product.

Wow, that is a lot. Was that for the 04300-KX1B0 or 00232-1906?

Guess I was fortunate they didn't charge me the extra cost for my 2nd oil change.

 

[navguy12]

Navguy -- for your magnets-on-the-outside thing, did you happen to check how much perceptible
magnetism that actually created on the *inner* surface of the plug before installing/refilling?

_H*

Yes I did.

I used screwdrivers as examples and I was able to have (at least) four screw drivers be held up by the magnetic attraction of the “inner” surface of the plug.

 

[navguy12]

Wow, that is a lot. Was that for the 04300-KX1B0 or 00232-1906?

Guess I was fortunate they didn't charge me the extra cost for my 2nd oil change.

You were lucky!

Honestly, I cannot tell you which of those two specifications was in the bottles at the dealership.

All I can say is that it was $52 plus tax for 948 mls of the Hyundai branded GL-4 70W reduction gear oil.

 

[R P]

You were lucky!

Honestly, I cannot tell you which of those two specifications was in the bottles at the dealership.

All I can say is that it was $52 plus tax for 948 mls of the Hyundai branded GL-4 70W reduction gear oil.

I called my local dealer (not the one that changed my oil) to check on prices. He said the 04300-KX1B0 was superseded 00232-1906-3 and cost $61.93 a quart (946 ml). Yikes!