Repair issues and fixes
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Kirk
New Member
Greetings Lars. My 1962 MGA MKII has a dipstick for both engine oil, as well as transmission oil
However, my 2013 Grand Cherokee doesn't have a transmission dipstick. Jeep wants me to go to the dealer to check my transmission fluid level...
Good idea.
I called my local dealer (who supplied my Kona). The part is available EX KOREA, 6-8 weeks delivery. AUD $12.45.
For $25 I'm tempted to order two, if for no other reason than to compare them with the plugs already bought. The only reason I'm hesitating is that the $100-odd that I spent on getting the two SS plugs and washers from USA will be wasted.
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
My main interest in checking the availability is that I feel safer recommending an OEM part to the many owners asking, just in case something totally unexpected happens. After checking the Votek today and seeing that it hasn't melted, I feel better continuing to use that and I'll add the second one I have. When Navguy12 gets his Hyundai plug in a week we can see if it's any good. I think it will have a ceramic magnet rather than rare-earth and it may be crimped instead of glued, or even just magnetically stuck to the steel plug inside the pocket. The net magnetic strength is probably lower than the Votek but in my experience with my Suzuki SUV it won't matter much. It has weak ceramic magnets yet they readily collect particles and leave the oil clear.
I'm $400 into this event as I've also had to buy a proper torque wrench after managing to skate by without one for 50 years. But I'd rather spend that than let my expensive EV deteriorate when I can change that course.
I'm $400 into this event as I've also had to buy a proper torque wrench after managing to skate by without one for 50 years. But I'd rather spend that than let my expensive EV deteriorate when I can change that course.
Agreed.
FYI, there is an Ioniq motor/reduction box thread over on AEVA forums. I have posted links to this discussion there as they (Ioniq) share the same reduction box and, it appears, the same issues.
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
While pondering the oil dripping out of the drain opening a thought occurred to me. It's easy to check for loose final drive bearings while the drain plug is out.
Place one pinky finger fully into the drain opening and touch the gear wheel. With other hand grab either axle and shake it vigorously up and down. The axle shaft will be loose where it splines into the diff carrier but the gear wheel inside should not move - which was fortunately the case with mine. I'm assuming here you're on ramps and the wheels won't turn. Perhaps don't do this if the wheels are hanging free.
Hope that's clear. The gear wheel inside the gearbox should not move radially (up and down) when you shake the axle, despite that the axle shakes inside the gearbox because it's splined. It's a good go/no-go test. If it did move you'd be off to the dealer demanding a new gear reducer.
The pink arrow illustrates where your finger touches the final drive gear wheel if you used the filler hole, the drain hole is much the same. The caveat is that your little finger must be under 15mm dia otherwise it may not come out.
Meanwhile, my 100km old oil is actually in very good condition. It's only slightly tinted so I'm going to filter it and save it for a rainy day.
Place one pinky finger fully into the drain opening and touch the gear wheel. With other hand grab either axle and shake it vigorously up and down. The axle shaft will be loose where it splines into the diff carrier but the gear wheel inside should not move - which was fortunately the case with mine. I'm assuming here you're on ramps and the wheels won't turn. Perhaps don't do this if the wheels are hanging free.
Hope that's clear. The gear wheel inside the gearbox should not move radially (up and down) when you shake the axle, despite that the axle shakes inside the gearbox because it's splined. It's a good go/no-go test. If it did move you'd be off to the dealer demanding a new gear reducer.
The pink arrow illustrates where your finger touches the final drive gear wheel if you used the filler hole, the drain hole is much the same. The caveat is that your little finger must be under 15mm dia otherwise it may not come out.
Meanwhile, my 100km old oil is actually in very good condition. It's only slightly tinted so I'm going to filter it and save it for a rainy day.
I managed to find test results of VAG G052512A2 MTF & DCTF quite similar to Hyundai/Kia MTF & DCTF 70W recommended for our vehicles:
fresh (Analysis Report) and used (Test Protocol). Both enclosed documents were soursed from the Russian site oil-club.ru
Even though the oil was used in Skoda Octavia's DSG gearbox which is somewhat different from ours, the results of used oil analyses resemble the ones published here.
I couldn't find neither the Data Sheet nor the analysis of Hyundai/Kia MTF & DCTF 70W and there could be more Si there than in VAG's fresh oil, but the ingress of some substance containing silicon is evident
fresh (Analysis Report) and used (Test Protocol). Both enclosed documents were soursed from the Russian site oil-club.ru
Even though the oil was used in Skoda Octavia's DSG gearbox which is somewhat different from ours, the results of used oil analyses resemble the ones published here.
I couldn't find neither the Data Sheet nor the analysis of Hyundai/Kia MTF & DCTF 70W and there could be more Si there than in VAG's fresh oil, but the ingress of some substance containing silicon is evident
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Yuri, for the 'new' oil analysis. We'll have to keep an eye on the silicon and aluminium ongoing.
Meanwhile, I finished the installation of a second magnetic drain plug and 1.05 litre of new Penrite synthetic oil. While installing the fill plug I couldn't get it up to the specified torque and it felt like the washer was too soft. After completing the job and preparing to drive off the ramps the car made a loud noise going into reverse. I assumed it was the parking pawl and no-doubt it was.
I cleaned everything up and put away my tools, but after some time thinking about it I decided to open it up again and check that the noise wasn't the nose of the magnet getting sheared off by the ring gear. I removed the plug and all was well, re-installed with a new Votex washer which was also too soft. It just continued to deform before I could quite reach 33 ft-lbs. Not to worry, it's the deformation that keeps it in place, not the torque.
But since I was in a hurry, I was able to prove that I could have done the entire job with one floor (trolley) jack and one jack stand at the left-front corner factory lift point. And, I only needed to remove the front cover. So, I'll know that for next time.
Torque wrench must have been approved by Jeremy Clarkson.
Meanwhile, I finished the installation of a second magnetic drain plug and 1.05 litre of new Penrite synthetic oil. While installing the fill plug I couldn't get it up to the specified torque and it felt like the washer was too soft. After completing the job and preparing to drive off the ramps the car made a loud noise going into reverse. I assumed it was the parking pawl and no-doubt it was.
I cleaned everything up and put away my tools, but after some time thinking about it I decided to open it up again and check that the noise wasn't the nose of the magnet getting sheared off by the ring gear. I removed the plug and all was well, re-installed with a new Votex washer which was also too soft. It just continued to deform before I could quite reach 33 ft-lbs. Not to worry, it's the deformation that keeps it in place, not the torque.
But since I was in a hurry, I was able to prove that I could have done the entire job with one floor (trolley) jack and one jack stand at the left-front corner factory lift point. And, I only needed to remove the front cover. So, I'll know that for next time.
Torque wrench must have been approved by Jeremy Clarkson.
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Lars
Well-Known Member
Most of my cars were stick shifts - maybe that is the answer? But I can't recall my two Priuses had any xmission dipsticks.
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
I found two Blackstone oil analyses on the MyNissanLeaf forum and pasted the relevant numbers onto the Kona data. The Leaf gear reducer design is very similar to the Kona's with the exceptions that it has two magnetic oil plugs and runs ATF.
The Leaf's comments are pasted along the top, #2 sounding very much like a fortuneteller's reading. I've broken it into two images, left and right, as before to circumvent forum resolution. I've highlighted in blue the three elements we care about. Based on this I'm less worried about the Kona's high aluminium and silicon values.
The Leaf's comments are pasted along the top, #2 sounding very much like a fortuneteller's reading. I've broken it into two images, left and right, as before to circumvent forum resolution. I've highlighted in blue the three elements we care about. Based on this I'm less worried about the Kona's high aluminium and silicon values.
Yes, that is certainly reassuring. For me what I hope will be a definitive and favourable result will be my next test at 10,000km, ie in 6000km time. I will be sending a sample of new oil as a base for comparison, together with what come out of the car - obviously using the same Penrite 70W-75 as is in there now.
I do wonder, though, where is the aluminium coming from because as far as I know from intuition, experience and what you (KiwiME) have explained, there are no aluminium wearing parts in the reduction gearbox. Could it be an additive in the oil?
I do wonder, though, where is the aluminium coming from because as far as I know from intuition, experience and what you (KiwiME) have explained, there are no aluminium wearing parts in the reduction gearbox. Could it be an additive in the oil?
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KiwiME
Well-Known Member
It's probably still housing wear at the ball bearings as we'd assumed but with similar levels showing up on the Leaf it may be minor enough to not be of any consequence. We don't have a good idea yet of how much aluminium in PPM equates to how much visible or measureable wear. And it does seem that failures unrelated to the motor alignment issue show up at the final drive bearing rather than at the primary or intermediate shafts, as what we see in the Russian video. It seems certain that owners who maintain good oil condition are unlikely to ever suffer that failure.
I'm also beginning to believe what one poster claimed on Reddit - that the motor/gearbox alignment issue was corrected on units from 2020. That certainly must be the trigger for the knocking noise complaint, which in most cases showed up early, under 20,000 km. We haven't seen as many reports of that lately. For <2020 cars, if it didn't show up early it may never do so.
I read today that 64 and 24 Kona/Niros were sold here last month, about $8m retail worth. And not one will be equipped the most basic form of oil filtration. One poster on a tech forum here responded to my advisory by suggested that this is intentional planned obsolescence. The silence from the importer regarding my email makes me wonder if that's true.
I'm also beginning to believe what one poster claimed on Reddit - that the motor/gearbox alignment issue was corrected on units from 2020. That certainly must be the trigger for the knocking noise complaint, which in most cases showed up early, under 20,000 km. We haven't seen as many reports of that lately. For <2020 cars, if it didn't show up early it may never do so.
I read today that 64 and 24 Kona/Niros were sold here last month, about $8m retail worth. And not one will be equipped the most basic form of oil filtration. One poster on a tech forum here responded to my advisory by suggested that this is intentional planned obsolescence. The silence from the importer regarding my email makes me wonder if that's true.
The thought had crossed my mind.
At least I got an acknowledgement and a promise to pass my report further up the food chain. Did you get anything at all?
I was also asked to provide feedback on my "customer relations interaction". I replied that I had received only an acknowledgement of receipt with an indication that my report would be forwarded for discussion, but with no indication of an outcome and therefore was not in a position to provide a grade.
As per chemists 1 ppm = 1 mg/L.
In OzKona's analysis Aluminum content in used oil was 46 ppm = 46 mg/L.
With approximately 1.5 L of oil in the reducer 69 mg or 0.069 g of Al has departed from the housing.
Not much to worry about IMHO
navguy12
Well-Known Member
Second magnetic plug also wasn’t magnetic.
So, I’m sticking with the OEM plugs and plan to use the button magnets (definitely after Christmas at the earliest, other issues going on).
Also got two US pints of the Red Line synthetic GL-4 75W/80W today, was $CAD 45.18 “all in” from Parts Source (division of Canadian Tire).
Thank you John, but I have a 10 pack coming with my second magnetic plug. When they run out I'll drop a line here - possibly early 2027 if I stay with an annual oil change
Just got a message from Amazon - second plug returned to sender as undeliverable and refund issued. WTF? Same account, same address as all my other Amazon purchases over the years. I think it's an Australia Post issue. I had a tracking number from AP which gave a delivery date, then a second delivery date then ... nothing. Wife posted a parcel to a friend in Canada mid November. AP tracking says it is still in Sydney!! Australia Post is a hopeless joke.