Level 1 Charger - does it work on 240v?

[IgLa]

If you are in Europe, your original question makes no sense. There is no Level 1 charging in Europe because the EU standard mennnekes plug EVSE is 230V to begin with. Also, I can't find any information about the Honda Clarity PHEV being sold outside the U.S. and Japan. I probably just didn't search correctly, but it would be interesting if it were available world-wide. And lastly, your idea of using 220V at 6A is no advantage over using 110V at 12A.

I bought the Clarity in USA on Copart with slight damage, and it is now being restored. I also know that Clarity is not being sold outside the U.S. and Japan. But in Ukraine, I know a few owners of the Clarity, thay have bought it by same way.
So my charger is Level 1

 

[Robert_Alabama]

I think he means that it is 6A at 240V limitation. So he thinks he can use the level 1 EVSE (adapted to 240V) and alter the duty cycle on the pilot to 10% (currently at 20% for 12A). I think it could work. It will take a circuit inserted in the pilot wire to cut the duty cycle in half from what it is normally set at. Probably doable though. Then he can charge at 6A at 240V and get full charge in 10-12 hours. Also, I think Mennekes is the same protocol as J1772, so there are simple adapters from Mennekes to J1772 for about $50.

Edited to add:
You could probably also add a 2KVA or larger 240V to 120V transformer and use the OEM EVSE at 12A and 120V. You would have 6A on the 240V circuit and would have 12A on the 120V EVSE.

 

[Sandroad]

I bought the Clarity in USA on Copart with slight damage, and it is now being restored. I also know that Clarity is not being sold outside the U.S. and Japan. But in Ukraine, I know a few owners of the Clarity, thay have bought it by same way.
So my charger is Level 1

That's all very interesting! I had no idea folks were able to import vehicles like the Clarity when there are no dealers, etc. Keep us posted on your adventures with it.

 

[AlanSqB]

You may be better off just building your own EVSE that will let you fully control the current. OpenEVSE.com has kits and even fully built units. You can adjust all the settings, including max amps either from the front button or via WiFi.

 

[Robert_Alabama]

You may be better off just building your own EVSE that will let you fully control the current. OpenEVSE.com has kits and even fully built units. You can adjust all the settings, including max amps either from the front button or via WiFi.

I have an early version of OpenEVSE. I don't know if mine has 6A setting. It is set with a rotating switch and a small screwdriver through a hole in the case, so I don't change it that often. I just checked the OpenEVSE website and both their advanced and standard kits allow for 6A. @AlanSqB is right, this would be a good solution, and economical. I really like mine. I have about 36' of length on it (18' on the plug, 18' on the J1772 cable, box in middle), so it lets me have a lot of flexibility in parking.

 

[Robert_Alabama]

Stumbled on this OpenEVSE being sold on Ebay. Advertises 6A 240V setting up to 30A 240V. Looks like prior customers were pleased. Like mine, you have to rotate switch setting with small flat screwdriver.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-Ve...ble-current-up-to-30A-20ft-cable/333195549917

Edited to add: It dawned on me after posting this that you should check to make sure this would work on a foreign 240V system. I think most are 240V only and the neutral is one of the two wires (whereas US is 120V 240V - the neutral is center to the 240V.) Some USA 240V appliances require 120V. There is a similar difference in potential between the ground and each of the phases which will be about 120V in USA. Ground voltage measurements on foreign systems would be essentially 0V to neutral and 240V to the hot wire. Anyway, you will have to do some homework to make sure this would work in Ukraine. The seller might be able to help. Since he seems to be building these himself, he may be able to alter it so that the design functions properly on foreign 240V.

As an example of what you could run into, I built mine myself and it has a transformer inside it that provides 24V to the board and 12V (from what I remember) to the relay. I think I remember opting for a 240V transformer instead of a 120V transformer, but that choice is up to the person who builds the EVSE.

 

[ClarityBill]

According to J1772 protocol the charge current is limited by PWM a 1khz pilot signal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

If duty cycle is 20% max current is 12A, I suppose Level 1 OEM charger use this duty cycle.
Duty cycle 10% corresponding 6A charge current.
My task is to limit current within 6А.
I have an idea to find a PWM generator on PCB, to made a duty cycle decreasing circuit (for example on NE555 timer), run it from original PWM. And output of decreased PWM connect to pilot signal.
Will it work correctly? Or maybe those changes couses OEM charger electronics error or something like that?
Is it worth to try?

I think it is worth a try. Charging current is limited by electronics in the Clarity, based on the PWM it receives (It is not magic).

Let us know your results.

 

[IgLa]

I think it is worth a try. Charging current is limited by electronics in the Clarity, based on the PWM it receives (It is not magic).

Let us know your results.

Today I was try to emulate connection charger to EV. By the SAE J1772, when Pilot line is not connected, it must be +12v, in my case it is about 20mV. When connecting resistance to CP-PE nothing changes, pwr led is ON, and after about 1minute, Error led begin blinking (6 times, than pause). Any ideas?

 

[ClarityBill]

Today I was try to emulate connection charger to EV. By the SAE J1772, when Pilot line is not connected, it must be +12v, in my case it is about 20mV. When connecting resistance to CP-PE nothing changes, pwr led is ON, and after about 1minute, Error led begin blinking. Any ideas?

On my charger, I have 12v DC on my pilot line, when it is not connected. Is there a problem with your charger?

I wonder if the error started blinking because there was no ground: Ground should be connected to proximity pin.

Mine measures 12v DC across the pins, and 12v DC from pilot to ground pin. There is no voltage on the main pins, when it is disconnected.

What resistance did you put across it? How many ohms?

 

[IgLa]

On my charger, I have 12v DC on my pilot line, when it is not connected. Is there a problem with your charger?

I wonder if the error started blinking because there was no ground: Ground should be connected to proximity pin.

Mine measures 12v DC across the pins, and 12v DC from pilot to ground pin. There is no voltage on the main pins, when it is disconnected.

What resistance did you put across it? How many ohms?

I connect 2740Ω and through the switch 1300Ω betwen ground and pilot line. And there is no voltage on pilot. Ground is connected to charger. And proximity pin is not connected to charger, it connects to ground with resistance and latch.

 

[ClarityBill]

I connect 2740Ω and through the switch 1300Ω betwen ground and pilot line. And there is no voltage on pilot. Ground is connected to charger. And proximity pin is not connected to charger, it connects to ground with resistance and latch.

I am confused if you are talking about connections on the charger, or on the car.

If there is no power on the charger pilot line, that is a fatal error that must be addressed.

If you are connecting resistors to the car, you need to supply a 12V power supply. I believe the car provides the resistors, to determine charging request.

 

[IgLa]

I connect charger to power supply 220v, and no car on output. Instead a car - resistance 2740Ω betwen ground and pilot line, as described on J1772_signaling_circuit. And there is no voltage on the pilot ground. When error blinks, there are -12V on pilot line (fault). Error start to blink at about 1 min after connection to power supply.

 

[ClarityBill]

I connect charger to power supply 220v, and no car on output. Instead a car - resistance 2740Ω betwen ground and pilot line, as described on J1772_signaling_circuit. And there is no voltage on the pilot ground. When error blinks, there are -12V on pilot line (fault). Error start to blink at about 1 min after connection to power supply.

The charger should be expecting the resistance to drop, with the 1300 ohm resistor added in parallel. It may fault out if that resistor is not added.

Sequence indicates PWM starts with 2740 resistor, but charging starts after 1300 resistor is added.

 

[IgLa]

The charger should be expecting the resistance to drop, with the 1300 ohm resistor added in parallel. It may fault out if that resistor is not added.

Sequence indicates PWM starts with 2740 resistor, but charging starts after 1300 resistor is added.

I add 1300 resistor in paralell, but it is not change anything. No PWM, no DC voltage, no matter which resistance is connected, only -12V appears when the error flashes.

Where I can find what means 6 flashes of error LED?

 

[DucRider]

I add 1300 resistor in paralell, but it is not change anything. No PWM, no DC voltage, no matter which resistance is connected, only -12V appears when the error flashes.

Where I can find what means 6 flashes of error LED?

Short circuit. Stop using immediately and see an authorized Honda
Clarity Electric dealer.​

From the owners manual on my Clarity Electric if the fault led is flashing. If other leds are flashing (alone or in combination), it holds a different meaning.

From a 2013 LEAF manual (they use the same Panasonic EVSE as my Clarity Electric)

When an electric leakage occurs or the EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) malfunctions Stop use immediately and contact a NISSAN certified LEAF dealer​

 

[ThomasZ]

A somewhat puzzling statement as it is highly unlikely. Who told you this, the builder, previous owner, salesperson? Have you used the outlet previously for anything?

My guess is you were misinformed. Unless maybe they wired the circuit so that the outlet could later be converted to 240V. Or maybe it's a 20 amp 120V circuit and whoever passed this information on to you just got confused?

Maybe post a photo of the outlet and people here can help you identify it.

I'm very sorry for this super late post. somehow I did not see this. I attached the photo here. My builder's agent did tell me it's 240v -- otherwise what's the point of the label vehicle charger?

 

[insightman]

I'm very sorry for this super late post. somehow I did not see this. I attached the photo here. My builder's agent did tell me it's 240v -- otherwise what's the point of the label vehicle charger?

It would be bad news if that was a 240-Volt outlet. An outlet like that is supposed to deliver 120 Volts at up to 20 Amps, so if you find a rare 120-Volt EVSE charging cable that uses more than 12 Amps, this outlet is ready to provide all the power it can take.

The label probably indicates the outlet is not shared with other outlets in the house, so you won't blow the circuit breaker when you have your toaster, electric blanket, and electric space heater going at the same time as when you're charging your Clarity.

There are no late posts--they're all welcome.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I'm very sorry for this super late post. somehow I did not see this. I attached the photo here. My builder's agent did tell me it's 240v -- otherwise what's the point of the label vehicle charger?

Weird. I don’t think an outlet like that is supposed to provide 240v - too easy to plug in a 120v item. It could work, but not likely to code.

Anyway quite easy to check with a voltmeter. You’re looking for about 240v between the two blades and about 120v between each blade and ground.

 

[MrFixit]

I attached the photo here

I agree with the others that this is highly unlikely to be 240V.
You can measure it to be sure.

It would also be good to have a look in the circuit breaker box.
If you can identify which breaker this is, then you would know the amperage and you could tell visually if it is 120 or 240V.

Keep in mind that if it is 120V AND it is a dedicated outlet (only outlet on that circuit breaker), you can quite easily change it to 240V for a very low cost. The breaker would be changed, and the receptacle would be changed (no need to change the wiring which is the most expensive part of an electrical job).

If you change this over to 240V and keep the same wiring, it will be Level 2, but it probably won't be able to charge at the full rate that the Clarity is capable of (30A). It will still be a dramatic improvement over Level 1, but you will have to determine the current capacity of the wiring and use an EVSE that limits the current to 80% of what the wiring is rated for. If you find out the current rating of the wiring, I can tell you approximately how long it will take for a full charge.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Keep in mind that if it is 120V AND it is a dedicated outlet (only outlet on that circuit breaker), you can quite easily change it to 240V for a very low cost. The breaker would be changed, and the receptacle would be changed (no need to change the wiring which is the most expensive part of an electrical job).

Is it kosher to keep mis-colored wires? Here, you’d end up with a white wire that’s supposed to be neutral instead carrying 120v. Of course, that would work, but somewhere down the line someone could get quite a shock making assumptions about a white wire. That said, I’ve been known to paint the exposed wire jacket - in my case painted green for a white wire that was serving as ground. Less dangerous than a hot wire with a white insulation.