Budget Battery Capacity Readout

[MrFixit]

Do you have any suggestion for placement?

No specific ideas for placement... As you are seeing, there is not an obvious good choice. Personally, I only connect once a month or-so to collect all the powertrain data on my laptop and rarely have a desire for live data.

On a side note, I recently bought one of the TPMS devices to measure tire pressure and augment the vehicle's TPMS system. I chose the style that mounts into the cigarette lighter outlet. Unfortunately the cigarette lighter is under the shift console and wasn't visible enough for my liking, so I made a short extension cable and bracket so it pointed out toward the driver's leg, and it is much better. It has alarms, so good visibility wasn't essential but I like to be able to see it. You can obviously have a device under the shift console, but that is certainly not visible enough for live use.

 

[coutinpe]

No specific ideas for placement... As you are seeing, there is not an obvious good choice. Personally, I only connect once a month or-so to collect all the powertrain data on my laptop and rarely have a desire for live data.

On a side note, I recently bought one of the TPMS devices to measure tire pressure and augment the vehicle's TPMS system. I chose the style that mounts into the cigarette lighter outlet. Unfortunately the cigarette lighter is under the shift console and wasn't visible enough for my liking, so I made a short extension cable and bracket so it pointed out toward the driver's leg, and it is much better. It has alarms, so good visibility wasn't essential but I like to be able to see it. You can obviously have a device under the shift console, but that is certainly not visible enough for live use.

Thanks! There you see why my interest in a CarPlay (or Android Auto) solution. Yes, I am curious about the actual EV live behavior ("electricity economy") the same way it works for ICE fuel economy, to figure out an actual EV range predictor, plus all those temperature data.BTW, I had one of those solar TPMS systems but I had to put it to sleep because one of the sensors somehow provoked an air leak...

 

[coutinpe]

This is what I have been doing recently. I use my regular phone to connect to Android Auto (for Google Maps, Spotify etc), and an older phone with no SIM mounted on the left side of the dash to display the CarScanner dashboard of my choice. This works great. I use an OBD cable with a switch so that I can turn off the OBD when I am done driving for the day.

I just found out that (at least with an iPhone7 and Apple Carplay) it is possible to simultaneously use the Bluetooth connection for CarPlay and Car Scanner, they worked well and there was no sign of interference at all.

 

[Reyn]

Hey @Reyn, can you say exactly where at the left of the board you put the old phone? (or post a pic?) I'm having a bit of a hard time figuring out where to place it that I can see the screen and it's out of the way of a possible airbag deployment... Thanks!

My wife took the Clarity to work today. I will try to remember to take a photo and post it later tonight. But in the meanwhile let me give you the link to the mount i used.
Phone Mount, MOKPR Universal Car Mount with Long Arm Dashboard Windshield Car Phone Holder and Strong Suction Cup Car Phone Mount Anti-Shake Stabilizer Phone Holder for iPhone, Galaxy, Pixel, Moto etc https://a.co/2LBzNVI

 

[Reyn]

I just found out that (at least with an iPhone7 and Apple Carplay) it is possible to simultaneously use the Bluetooth connection for CarPlay and Car Scanner, they worked well and there was no sign of interference at all.

I use the OBD set up mostly when doing long road trips when I am concerned about the engine over heating, regen effectiveness etc. On such long trips, my primary phone is my Android Auto device, and also my camera at frequent photo stops. I wanted the OBD data to be on another device that i could leave plugged in.
The phone with the OBD data is mounted on the left side of the dash with the suction cup on the main dash, the support bracket on the lower dash. See product link above in the previous post.

 

[coutinpe]

I use the OBD set up mostly when doing long road trips when I am concerned about the engine over heating, regen effectiveness etc. On such long trips, my primary phone is my Android Auto device, and also my camera at frequent photo stops. I wanted the OBD data to be on another device that i could leave plugged in.
The phone with the OBD data is mounted on the left side of the dash with the suction cup on the main dash, the support bracket on the lower dash. See product link above in the previous post.

Thank you!

 

[Clarity Dave]

I finally took the plunge and bought a VGate Pro BLE OBD-II scanner and loaded Car Scanner on my iPhone and your instructions worked like a charm, @MrFixit. Thanks!

Oddly, it appears that our Clarity has had one of the mysterious battery capacity "resets". I've attached a screenshot of the dashboard. It says my 2018 with 30,000 miles has 54.32 Ah of capacity. I have a few past readings from the dealer when I was able to get them to understand what I wanted, and the results were:

October 2019, 18,321 miles: 51.7 Ah
October 2020, 22,840 miles: 51.7 Ah
May 2021, 24,567 miles: 51.1 Ah

Unless a miracle occurred, either the new reading or the old ones are wrong, and the older readings seem consistent with other cars.

I've never disconnected the 12V battery, and the car was last in May 2022, for A0 service at which time they misunderstood my request and told me they had tested the traction battery and it was good. Sigh.

 

[MrFixit]

@Clarity Dave

I agree that it looks like you had a 'capacity reset' some time between May 2021 and now. If you can't pin this on something that may have happened at home, then your trip to the dealer in May 2022 is suspect. A0 service shouldn't cause a reset of course. Perhaps when they were floundering around trying to figure out how to fulfill your request for a capacity reading, they invoked some reset feature within their i-HDS diagnostic system.

I would love to get to the bottom of these reset events. Thanks for joining the "Capacity Club"... If you keep an eye on this (I do it roughly every month) you will likely see a gradual drop back toward 'normal', but this process seems extremely slow (many months) and probably depends on driving / charging habits. As I said on the Github pages, we know a 12V battery disconnect does not do this. Perhaps an extended one, but your dealer would have had no reason to do that.

It is also interesting that your capacity (before this reset) seemed to not be dropping characteristically (it was almost unchanged for a couple of years). Is there anything about your driving / charging that may be different than most that could explain this? It does seem like you do not drive very much and that could explain a low degradation with time. It could also make the 'recovery' time longer from this reset.

I took the liberty of entering your data on the shared spreadsheet (I don't know some of your particulars, but captured the readings at least...

Maybe I will cull through the capacity data and make a plot showing every example of a 'reset' and how these are 'recovering' [or not]. Most do not experience this, but there are enough to make this a serious question.

 

[MrFixit]

Maybe I will cull through the capacity data and make a plot showing every example of a 'reset' and how these are 'recovering' [or not]. Most do not experience this, but there are enough to make this a serious question.

I looked at all the Battery Capacity data. There are 5 users who I believe have experienced an unexplained capacity "Reset".
All are "recovering" (some faster than others). @Clarity Dave is the most recent, and thus has not begun to recover yet. Please continue to monitor so we can learn more about this odd anomaly...

Here is a plot of these 5 users:

 

[Thomas Clauser]

Image (4)

• Thomas Clauser
• Aug 19, 2022

Quick advice needed.

I am halfway through a 24 hour test drive of a used 2018 Clarity with 55k miles. No knowledge of how it was driven/treated. I have the Vgate OBD2 and Car Scanner (thank you for this) and after a full charge overnight I am sitting at 41.6ah.

I have looked at the google spreadsheet and while this isn't the worst on the list, it is certainly outside the capacity most are reporting.

So, with only 8 hours or so to go before buying/not buying. Any advice?

 

[AHolbro1]

Yes


Recognizing the cluttered mess that this thread has become, I have put together a more concise "How To" in a Github project. I am working with @Domenick to somehow highlight this at the start of the thread to prevent new members from having to wade through the mess like you had to do !

Here is a link to the consolidated Github pages:
https://github.com/clarity-phev/Battery-Capacity-Read

Thanks for this helpful link.
I hope this trend abates, soon:
After my initial read of 49.9 ah, I completed a level 2 charge and got 49.76 ah, another day, another level 2 charge, and 49.56 ah, next day, also topped up with the level 2 charger, steady at 49.56. Last night, I topped it up with the Level 1, and today I get 49.4 ah.

I did a bit of HV-Charge on the way home, yesterday, primarily b/c I had posted fuel burn rate to the dashboard and noted in my morning drive to work, HV mode, I was seeing 1.5 - 2.5 gal/hr, but would call the seat-of-the-pants "average" without tabulating the actual data as about 2.0 gal/hr with cruise control set at 71 to effect 70 mph actual, more or less level ground. I wanted to see what the figure was for HV-Charge mode, and in-general, although in the afternoon, so a bit warmer ambient, it was more or less 3.0 gal/hr. Instantaneous fuel economy down in the 25-30 mpg range, vs. ~35 or so in HV mode.

BTW, haven't yet purchased CarScanner, though plan to sometime, today...but I don't see a way in the free version to export data to .csv file or similar? Is that an option in the paid version? It's a breeze in TorquePro....but I don't think I have all the PID's there that are so immediately available in CarScanner.

 

[MrFixit]

I hope this trend abates, soon:
After my initial read of 49.9 ah, I completed a level 2 charge and got 49.76 ah, another day, another level 2 charge, and 49.56 ah, next day, also topped up with the level 2 charger, steady at 49.56. Last night, I topped it up with the Level 1, and today I get 49.4 ah.

I would caution you to not try and interpret this day-to-day. I read mine out roughly once per month. Any trend that exists month-to-month means a lot more than day-to-day.

 

[AHolbro1]

Sounds reasonable.

With respect to the 2-phone dilemma, I have a slightly different problem. My primary phone has developed a bit of slop in the USB-C connection. I no longer get the tactile and sometimes (barely) audible click when plugging in. Coincident with this, the car absolutely refuses to acknowledge AndroidAuto. I can still successfully charge the phone, on a desktop or what have you, have not attempted to in the car while in motion but suspect that would meet with failure, as the slightest disturbance is sufficient to dislodge the charge cord enough to cancel charging.

So I dusted off an older Android phone lying about, charged it, reset it to factory specs, downloaded AndroidAuto and a few other apps of choice, such as WAZE and Pandora and plugged that in for AndroidAuto, as my primary interest is in displaying Waze on the main screen in order to determine whether or not to spring for the $8-$10 toll route or stay in the "Po-boyz" lanes on the morning commute.

I mounted the primary phone, equipped with CarScanner on the fixed-in-place vent window as shown. Although not operative due to this phone's discrepancy, this location allows you to direct the air-con vent onto the phone to allow charging when driving into the sun on a x-country trek. Android's will "keep alive" when plugged in and operating in the 110F range, but will not charge at that temp.

I'm not quite sure how, but I have been occasionally able to choose "bluetooth" as the audio source and stream from my window-mounted primary phone while having the secondary connected via AndroidAuto. Other times, NOT...."This option not available with AndroidAuto" Need to sort this as that is the way I want to roll...until the primary is completely worn out and in need of replacement...

 

[MrFixit]

So, with only 8 hours or so to go before buying/not buying. Any advice?

Hello Thomas, and welcome to the forum.

I assume you are aware that the warranty threshold for the HV battery is 36.6 aH. I agree that this vehicle seems to be on the low end of normal. It is hard to make a specific recommendation since there is not a lot of Clarity history to go by.

One consideration is where you live. The standard warranty on the HV battery is 8Y / 100K miles.
If you live in certain states, it increases to 10Y / 150K miles. These are the states with the increased warranty:
California, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon
Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington

You could perhaps use the 'low' capacity as a bargaining chip regarding price, but the way the used car market is right now, I'm not sure how much leverage is available.

 

[Thomas Clauser]

Hello Thomas, and welcome to the forum.

I assume you are aware that the warranty threshold for the HV battery is 36.6 aH. I agree that this vehicle seems to be on the low end of normal. It is hard to make a specific recommendation since there is not a lot of Clarity history to go by.

One consideration is where you live. The standard warranty on the HV battery is 8Y / 100K miles.
If you live in certain states, it increases to 10Y / 150K miles. These are the states with the increased warranty:
California, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon
Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington

You could perhaps use the 'low' capacity as a bargaining chip regarding price, but the way the used car market is right now, I'm not sure how much leverage is available.

Well, I did it. Since it's carmaxi have 30 days to return it. So I'm happy to be a guinea pig for data collection, questions, or experimentation.

I'm already noticing the 'angry bees' noise when the battery is depleted and it lasts longer than I think would be normal to get some charge back in the battery.

Wish me luck!

 

[MrFixit]

I'm already noticing the 'angry bees' noise when the battery is depleted and it lasts longer than I think would be normal to get some charge back in the battery.

You will see a lot of discussion about the Angry Bees. Sometimes a new owner will think he is hearing the "Bees" when the ICE comes on during a normal cycle. The ICE is more noticeable around town than on the highway. The real Angry Bees can be startling, and you may have not really heard them..

For the most part, you can totally avoid the Angry Bees once you learn how to effectively use the vehicle. The simple guidance is to never operate the vehicle with zero EV range, particularly when there are challenging conditions (hilly terrain, or high speeds >60 mph).

If you know your trip will exceed the EV range, then switch to HV mode when you still have half of your EV range left. Then you can go back to EV when there is just enough range remaining to get back to your EVSE. On longer road trips, operate in HV for the entire trip. You have to remember to re-engage HV every time you stop. Most find that EV range will gradually deplete on a long trip, so if you get down to maybe 1/4 charge, activate HV Charge mode to boost it back up to 1/2. Again, when you can make it back home, then go to EV to utilize the remainder of your charge. Remember, in HV mode, this vehicle can deliver 45 mpg.

This may sound more complicated than it is, but it is really very simple and the "Bees" will probably not bother you at all.

 

[AHolbro1]

I've owned the car for 6 weeks and put, near as makes no difference, 4,500 miles on it. I've yet to hear the ICE run! Now, how much of that is hearing loss due to 2,500 hours piloting turbine-powered rotary-winged, aircraft? vs. how much is due to my inherently operating it somewhat as @MrFixit describes vs. the din ginned up by the BF Good(not)rich tires it arrived fitted with? I couldn't say...all I can tell you is that prior to obtaining CarScanner, the only way I could tell the ICE was engaged was bringing up the power distribution screen and seeing the engine icon light up. Now, I have a rev counter on the app dashboard.

May be able to eliminate the BF Goodrich factor soon as I've noticed a distinct flopping sound initiated after the recent tire rotation, commensurate with all of my previous experiences with tires having the word "Good" embossed on them and I'm planning another 2k mile road trip before the EOM, so....with no spare, I don't think it wise to launch with floppy tires. Hot tip: If you have to stamp "Good" onto the body of your product...it probably isn't.

 

[MrFixit]

Image (4)

• Thomas Clauser
• Aug 19, 2022

Quick advice needed.

Thomas, I like your statistical view of the capacity data.
I believe there is an issue with the way that you extracted the data however.

Within each data bin (0-10K, 10K-20K, etc) a given vehicle will often have multiple readings (sometimes many). This gives much more weight to vehicles that are measured more often, and skews the data.

I would like to produce a similar histogram, but instead of using every measurement, each vehicle would only contribute one data point per bin. I think it would make sense to use the average value for each vehicle. This will result in the data being examined on a per-vehicle basis rather than per-reading. It makes it a little more complicated to create the table, but I think it would yield a better representation.

I'll think about a way to make this appear as one of the standard outputs from the shared spreadsheet...

 

[Thomas Clauser]

Thomas, I like your statistical view of the capacity data.
I believe there is an issue with the way that you extracted the data however.

Within each data bin (0-10K, 10K-20K, etc) a given vehicle will often have multiple readings (sometimes many). This gives much more weight to vehicles that are measured more often, and skews the data.

I would like to produce a similar histogram, but instead of using every measurement, each vehicle would only contribute one data point per bin. I think it would make sense to use the average value for each vehicle. This will result in the data being examined on a per-vehicle basis rather than per-reading. It makes it a little more complicated to create the table, but I think it would yield a better representation.

I'll think about a way to make this appear as one of the standard outputs from the shared spreadsheet...

If I may, you have some really valuable information here. Statistically speaking, each of these datapoints is valid by itself. The fact the some measure more frequently than others doesn't necessarily skew the results so much as adds more credibility to the average battery capacity for each category (p-value stuff) but the same results when scattered will tell them same story so long as people understand what's being represented.



Example:
If you're buying a Clarity under 10,000 miles you can expect 96% battery efficiency on average with very little deviation (high as 55ah, low as 50ah) and a high sample rate (very trustworthy)
If you're buying a Clarity between 60-70k miles you can expect an 85% battery efficiency on average with a high deviation (high of 51.4ah, low of 43.14ah) and a low sample rate (not as trustworthy)

If you're like me =-) you were expecting an average range of 46ah for a 50k mile car and got 41. Disappointing, but not unbelievable. Given that the deviation was high but the sample size was also high.

I do these types of analysis quite often, just let me know if you'd like any assistance.

 

[MrFixit]

I do these types of analysis quite often, just let me know if you'd like any assistance.

Thanks, Let me send you a private message to discuss further.