electriceddy
Moderator
3000 miles??? That alone might have me concerned about the anticipated repair time, never mind the swap time addition.
BMS update fail...
- Thread starter ericy
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ericy
Well-Known Member
3000 miles??? That alone might have me concerned about the anticipated repair time, never mind the swap time addition.
No, they mean 3000 miles total on the odo, and that's just their requirement for when the car gets turned back over to the sales.
apu
Well-Known Member
Makes sense as they will recycle your loaner into a new "demo" vehicle that will be reportedly driven by the dealership owner's grandama only on Sundays. Likely they sell it for a couple dollars less than one strait off the boat. I had to swap my loaner Accent the other day with 1200 km, gots me a fancy new Venue with 90 km on the ODO. Its OK, has the sunroof, very similar size to the Kona. I miss the, more controlled suspension, performance,silence of the EV, LKA and active cruise. Not fussy on its boxy looks, my young adult children think its cool. That would be exactly the demographic Hyundai is targeting with that vehicle. Kids say it looks kinda like a range rover, I don't see it.
ericy
Well-Known Member
I was reading that thread related to hot batteries during DCFC (50C), which lead me to the epic thread on SpeakEV related to failure of the battery cooling system, and that got me thinking. I went back and looked at the SoulEVSpy data that I had on my phone, to see if anything jumped out at me. And boy did I find something. The GPS data from this was from 2020/06/03 18:14:53.
I would note that this all goes back to Jun 3rd while (or after) I was doing a DCFC. It was hot out that day - in the 90s. Note that on that day, there was no battery degradation that could be seen in the cell voltages. All are identical.
The design of the system suggests that at these temperatures, the AC compressor should be running, and delivering chilled coolant to the battery. Fortunately SoulEVSpy helps here too.
Evaporator temp was 41F - that sounds normal enough for a hot day like this with the compressor running. Cabin temp of 82F doesn't sound that bad. Now let's look at the BMS (5 pages of data):
So battery *inlet* temperature was 116F. Based on the other thead, it should be something closer to 15C or 60F. As noted the AC compressor was running, which seems correct. So it sounds like I have/had the same problem as the person in the UK where their battery wasn't cooling properly.
There are a couple of other pages that I have screengrabs for that I am not posting (just to keep from overwhelming people with irrelevant data (tire data, OBC, GPS, for example).
Unfortunately I don't have the car right now, and by the time I get it back, the high temperatures of summer will be gone, so I might not be able to test further until sometime next summer. The other thread here suggested that the BMS update corrected the problem where chilled coolant wasn't circulating - until I get a chance to test again, I won't be able to test that myself.
I have a different log from 06/21/20 - that one showed more normal temperatures, and cell 40 only had a voltage difference of 0.02V. Hardly enough to notice, really.
I did a DCFC the day before the BMS update, but I didn't use SoulEVSpy on that day, so I have no data. But it was also hot out that day...
I would note that this all goes back to Jun 3rd while (or after) I was doing a DCFC. It was hot out that day - in the 90s. Note that on that day, there was no battery degradation that could be seen in the cell voltages. All are identical.
The design of the system suggests that at these temperatures, the AC compressor should be running, and delivering chilled coolant to the battery. Fortunately SoulEVSpy helps here too.
Evaporator temp was 41F - that sounds normal enough for a hot day like this with the compressor running. Cabin temp of 82F doesn't sound that bad. Now let's look at the BMS (5 pages of data):
So battery *inlet* temperature was 116F. Based on the other thead, it should be something closer to 15C or 60F. As noted the AC compressor was running, which seems correct. So it sounds like I have/had the same problem as the person in the UK where their battery wasn't cooling properly.
There are a couple of other pages that I have screengrabs for that I am not posting (just to keep from overwhelming people with irrelevant data (tire data, OBC, GPS, for example).
Unfortunately I don't have the car right now, and by the time I get it back, the high temperatures of summer will be gone, so I might not be able to test further until sometime next summer. The other thread here suggested that the BMS update corrected the problem where chilled coolant wasn't circulating - until I get a chance to test again, I won't be able to test that myself.
I have a different log from 06/21/20 - that one showed more normal temperatures, and cell 40 only had a voltage difference of 0.02V. Hardly enough to notice, really.
I did a DCFC the day before the BMS update, but I didn't use SoulEVSpy on that day, so I have no data. But it was also hot out that day...
electriceddy
Moderator
Thanks for the screen shots...SoulEVSpy certainly provides a lot of useful information. Eventually (when the car is paid off) and I will have a few bucks for toys (like a phone and dongle etc) this will probably be the program I will use.
Keep us informed.
ericy
Well-Known Member
I sent something early this morning to Hyundai. Got a response "sorry, we will look into it and will try and call me tomorrow with a status on the part". I don't blame the dealer at all - Hyundai doesn't seem to do a whole lot to keep them in the loop either.
Gjpzee - I sent you a DM...
apu
Well-Known Member
Almost week 3 for me, I was not even getting a ping from bluelink, thought the new battery was dead. I dropped by the dealer, still no ETA on the motor harness or my key blank. Turns out my service adviser disconnected my 12V battery a couple of weeks ago, which is fine and I am glad it hasn't been sitting discharged during that period. Man whats up with their parts distribution I get how maybe a motor harnesses or traction battery are expensive and not particularly hot items but a key blank?
ericy
Well-Known Member
Thanks. I am going to try and keep that other thread clean by not posting until I have something definite. Intermediate status reports and so forth can remain here.
apu
Well-Known Member
Sorry my bad, I will try to keep thing clean as well.
I got the campaign done last weekend. No problems, battery cap was on, etc.
But the BlueLink app keeps telling me I have to get it done. I'll delete the message, and immediately, when I go back to the main screen, it's there again.
I double checked on the Hyundai website with my VIN and it said it's been completed.
Anyone else getting that?
But the BlueLink app keeps telling me I have to get it done. I'll delete the message, and immediately, when I go back to the main screen, it's there again.
I double checked on the Hyundai website with my VIN and it said it's been completed.
Anyone else getting that?
ericy
Well-Known Member
That's a common issue, I think. My car had the BMS update over a month ago, and the website still says that it is needed.
Ronny
Member
I had the update done in June and website still says it is needed. Contacted both Bluelink and Hyundai. Both are useless! VERY unimpressed with Hyundai service so far.
ericy
Well-Known Member
No news on my car - I may call Hyundai later today to bug them (for all the good it does).
But I was piddling around on a Hyundai parts site - the entire battery pack is broken down into internal parts - quite a few of them. Various hoses, connectors, gaskets, and everything else.
https://www.hyundaipartsdeal.com/ge...tor/high_voltage_battery_system,3737512,375A0
Which to an extent seems weird - my sense is that they aren't expecting dealers to open and service the things, and instead send them in for refurbishment, so why do they even break it down like this? Possibly so that the specialized shops that refurbish the modules have access to parts for repair??
I would also note that just from the parts diagram it is impossible to know which parts are not intended to be reused, and which ones can be reused. For example, 37528-K4000 is the gasket that seals the battery assembly - is this reusable or not? They don't say, but lots of manufacturers seem to recommend not reusing gaskets.
The individual blocks of battery cells are listed on the parts sites - you can search for 375J1-K4000 and 375J2-K4000. Those go for around 6300$. But one of the keys with LiON batteries is having all of the cells balanced with respect to each other, so it doesn't really seem like it would be a good idea to just swap out one of the blocks. Perhaps a shop that specialized in refurbishment would have the ability to select a module that is well balanced WRT the others? But from the standpoint of ordering parts, you don't have the ability to really select a part with a set of characteristics that would be a good match for others.
Something else I noticed. The entire pack assembly is listed with part number 37501-K4000, with a list price of 31K$. But there is a second part with a number 37501-K4000-RM, which has a much lower list price that one can apparently get for something like 8k$. They list this part as "new", but the "-RM" suffix suggest to me a remanufactured or refurbished part.
There is a part number 37501-K4001, which is a battery assembly for a model year 2020 Kona. It isn't at all clear what changed from 2019 to 2020. The parts websites say this part won't fit a 2019.
But I was piddling around on a Hyundai parts site - the entire battery pack is broken down into internal parts - quite a few of them. Various hoses, connectors, gaskets, and everything else.
https://www.hyundaipartsdeal.com/ge...tor/high_voltage_battery_system,3737512,375A0
Which to an extent seems weird - my sense is that they aren't expecting dealers to open and service the things, and instead send them in for refurbishment, so why do they even break it down like this? Possibly so that the specialized shops that refurbish the modules have access to parts for repair??
I would also note that just from the parts diagram it is impossible to know which parts are not intended to be reused, and which ones can be reused. For example, 37528-K4000 is the gasket that seals the battery assembly - is this reusable or not? They don't say, but lots of manufacturers seem to recommend not reusing gaskets.
The individual blocks of battery cells are listed on the parts sites - you can search for 375J1-K4000 and 375J2-K4000. Those go for around 6300$. But one of the keys with LiON batteries is having all of the cells balanced with respect to each other, so it doesn't really seem like it would be a good idea to just swap out one of the blocks. Perhaps a shop that specialized in refurbishment would have the ability to select a module that is well balanced WRT the others? But from the standpoint of ordering parts, you don't have the ability to really select a part with a set of characteristics that would be a good match for others.
Something else I noticed. The entire pack assembly is listed with part number 37501-K4000, with a list price of 31K$. But there is a second part with a number 37501-K4000-RM, which has a much lower list price that one can apparently get for something like 8k$. They list this part as "new", but the "-RM" suffix suggest to me a remanufactured or refurbished part.
There is a part number 37501-K4001, which is a battery assembly for a model year 2020 Kona. It isn't at all clear what changed from 2019 to 2020. The parts websites say this part won't fit a 2019.
electriceddy
Moderator
Interesting, the same "01" suffix used on the motor replacement as well (700 to 701), I wonder if this is common to revised parts production models.No news on my car - I may call Hyundai later today to bug them (for all the good it does).
But I was piddling around on a Hyundai parts site - the entire battery pack is broken down into internal parts - quite a few of them. Various hoses, connectors, gaskets, and everything else.
https://www.hyundaipartsdeal.com/genuine/hyundai-battery-management-unit~375a0-k4000.html?vin=&make=Hyundai&model=Kona Electric&year=2019&submodel=&extra1=&extra2=&filter=()&location=motor/high_voltage_battery_system,3737512,375A0
Which to an extent seems weird - my sense is that they aren't expecting dealers to open and service the things, and instead send them in for refurbishment, so why do they even break it down like this? Possibly so that the specialized shops that refurbish the modules have access to parts for repair??
I would also note that just from the parts diagram it is impossible to know which parts are not intended to be reused, and which ones can be reused. For example, 37528-K4000 is the gasket that seals the battery assembly - is this reusable or not? They don't say, but lots of manufacturers seem to recommend not reusing gaskets.
The individual blocks of battery cells are listed on the parts sites - you can search for 375J1-K4000 and 375J2-K4000. Those go for around 6300$. But one of the keys with LiON batteries is having all of the cells balanced with respect to each other, so it doesn't really seem like it would be a good idea to just swap out one of the blocks. Perhaps a shop that specialized in refurbishment would have the ability to select a module that is well balanced WRT the others? But from the standpoint of ordering parts, you don't have the ability to really select a part with a set of characteristics that would be a good match for others.
Something else I noticed. The entire pack assembly is listed with part number 37501-K4000, with a list price of 31K$. But there is a second part with a number 37501-K4000-RM, which has a much lower list price that one can apparently get for something like 8k$. They list this part as "new", but the "-RM" suffix suggest to me a remanufactured or refurbished part.
There is a part number 37501-K4001, which is a battery assembly for a model year 2020 Kona. It isn't at all clear what changed from 2019 to 2020. The parts websites say this part won't fit a 2019.
Gjpzee
Active Member
Hyundai decided to buy the car back. I should get an offer from them early next week. Meanwhile the car is now 45 days at the dealership with no ETA for the replacement battery yet.
electriceddy
Moderator
Unbelievable, this seems to be the remedy on a few occasions now. Well at least your patience should be rewarded shortly. I just don't understand why replacements are not readily available especially knowing of the issue. Will you be getting another one or just settle out and purchase a different make?