BMS update fail...
- Thread starter ericy
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ericy
Well-Known Member
The original TSB talks about the 0.1V test. It refers to a 2nd "TSB 20-EE-001H" that needs to be performed if it fails this test, and it makes for an interesting read.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10173530-0001.pdf
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10173530-0001.pdf
- The starting point is that the dealer needs to capture data from their system, and provide to Hyundai Techline. The dealer cannot order the battery themselves - only Techline can do this. This information is consistent with what I was told by the dealer yesterday.
- This process seems surprisingly low-tech. The "GDS" tool that they use might have an SD card - if so, they can save the data there. If not, they need to use a camera to take pictures, or take screenshots.
- The dealer might not have the required "Propulsion System Lift Table". If not, they need to get one - ordered from Bosch, costs about 5000$. If they already have one, then they are good. Don't know if they get reimbursed for this. The table can also be used for gas cars to lower various components (fuel tank, engine, etc). Rated for 1760lbs. A "High Voltage Battery Lifting Fixture" is also required - this is used to lift the battery out of the box and onto the lift table.
- The tech needs to perform an "EV Battery Replacement Online Training Module".
- If Techline approves, the battery will be shipped by Mobis to the dealer. It has to go by Hazmat ground transportation - shipping can take 2-7 days, depending on location, and Techline will give the dealer an ETA for the battery.
- The battery is shipped in a fairly substantial wood box, that will be nailed or screwed shut. Two styles of box. One is an "OEM" box, the other is a "Refurbished EV battery box". The refurbished box seems to be designed so that it can easily be lifted with a forklift, and has integrated lifting handles. The OEM box is just a box - no handles, not elevated for forklift, so it is unclear from the pictures how one is supposed to lift the thing off the truck.
- They have to remove the rear seat to gain access to the service plug cover, and remove the service plug.
- They need a forklift (preferred) or an engine hoist to get the battery out of the box and onto the lift table (and to get the old battery off of the lift table and back into the box when done).
- There is a special low-conductivity coolant that must be used, and that is blue in color. It cannot be mixed with water. I was looking under the hood one day, and I saw the reservoir, and it initially confused me as blue is typically the color of windshield cleaning solution. Since the battery ships with no coolant, the dealer will need to purge the lines of air.
- They are expected to ship the old battery back for refurbishment - the instructions for this are in "TSB 19-EE-001H-1". There are no details given for how the refurbishment process works.
ericy
Well-Known Member
Still in a sort of limbo. The dealer has been doing a good job of staying in contact. Techline has not yet given us an ETA on the battery. As of a few days ago, they were still asking the dealer for more and more diagnostic info. It is hard for me to read a whole lot into this - I communicate via the service manager who talks to the tech, who talks to techline, so it all gets filtered through multiple layers. The service manager was going to call Techline directly to try and get a more direct information.
But the dealer is ordering that 5000$ lift table. So that's one good sign of progress. No ETA on that either.
I can check BlueLink - no real change seen there. Not much to learn from that..
I also heard from the dealer that did the initial BMS update. They went back to their tech and asked him about it - they claim they did everything by the book. I can't prove that they did anything wrong, of course. All I know is that I don't have the car right now.
We have been getting by on one car, but it sounds like they will be bringing by a loaner this evening and that will solve a few issues until the Kona is fixed.
But the dealer is ordering that 5000$ lift table. So that's one good sign of progress. No ETA on that either.
I can check BlueLink - no real change seen there. Not much to learn from that..
I also heard from the dealer that did the initial BMS update. They went back to their tech and asked him about it - they claim they did everything by the book. I can't prove that they did anything wrong, of course. All I know is that I don't have the car right now.
We have been getting by on one car, but it sounds like they will be bringing by a loaner this evening and that will solve a few issues until the Kona is fixed.
apu
Well-Known Member
I really empathize with you as I had a very similar experience of frustration with the apparent dysfunctional communication related to my motor swap. HYTAC is the Canadian equivalent of techline and they seemed for all intensive purposes closed to any communication during the height of COVID. I did not see any movement with my concerns until I finally complained to Hyundai corporate. I hope it gets sorted for you soon and am glad they are arranging the loaner.
You could always ask someone else who is at the pumps, they might think your nuts, but no crazier than showing a novice how to plug in at a DCFC. I had to get some gas earlier this year for my 37 year old lawnmower (refuses to die) and required the attendant to give me a handI now have a loaner. An ICE car, but it is something and better than nothing.
I need to remember how to fill on gas. There must be a youtube video that shows how to do this.
apu
Well-Known Member
Hmm, went to use my spare key fob yesterday. The car won't acknowledge it, battery seems fine,the both the fob RF transmission and direct RFID contact with the start button are ignored. Its like the car's programming for that key is lost. I blame the update, back to the dealer tomorrow.
ericy
Well-Known Member
I went by the dealer today to get some personal things out of the car. Hyundai isn't terribly communicative - not even to the dealer. I haven't even seen a commitment that they have even shipped a battery. So I am still in a sort of limbo - it isn't at all clear where things stand right now.
My tags expire the end of the month, and the new stickers got mailed to our address in Virginia. So I need to make a somewhat pointless trip to DC next week to fetch the new stickers that will hopefully be in the mailbox. I was sort of hoping to have the car back so I can try the new L2 charger at the office, but at the moment, that seems highly unlikely. Among the things I picked up from the Kona today were my ID badge to get into the office, and my EZPass.
Just checked mine and it works, thanks for the heads up - didn't even think of that one!
I wonder if when your 12 V battery was replaced (post the traction motor replacement) is when it lost memory of 2nd FOB? Hopefully its just a re-program. I might add - you have certainly had more than your share of issues, I hope this is a minor repair and everything works as they are supposed to for a long time to come.
apu
Well-Known Member
Yeah its weird. I am pretty sure that the key codes(vehicle anti theft- VATSS and remote keyless entry-RKE) are stored on a non volatile EPROM chip in the body control module, so short of an EMP blast I going to guess the codes got programmed out of memory or corrupted during the BMS update. I had a chance to verify that the keyfob transmits RKE appropriately at 433 MHz with good signal strength using my Autel TPMS tool, so most certainly its the car being retarded. My daily keyfob still works and the car is working well otherwise so that's something to be thankful for
apu
Well-Known Member
Just returned from service, they couldn't get the key fob programmed, claim the basically brand new "keyfob is dead". Interesting in that with my testing it transmits RKE signal no problem but it won't lock or unlock the car. I can't verify the RFID VATSS signal. I suppose that it could be non functional and both signals need to be acknowledged, but short of physical damage the RFID chips are typically fairly robust. Oh, well they put in a order for a new $200+ keyfob under warranty. I am just glad I found this now because knowing my dealer if I had realized it was non functional out of the typical 1 year adjustment period I am sure they would have blamed me for breaking it.
Just a heads up, once you have two working keyfobs again, go to a locksmith and get a third one. When you have two working keyfobs, they will usually charge $50-$75 for an additional one, including programming and cutting the emergency key portion. Then if one dies, you can still get a new one fairly cheaply.
apu
Well-Known Member
Argh, had to bring back the car to the dealer again today. The car is repeating the intermittent no start condition that they "fixed" last week. Basically it keeps telling me to put your foot on the brake and also flashes the security key icon. Won't let you go into accessory mode, my windows were down and I could not close them as it was going to rain, could not shift into neutral to be towed. Tried everything, let it sit for a couple of hours, battery voltage was fine. Finally the only thing that worked was rebooting the car by disconnecting the negative lead from the battery. Left the car with them as I am tired of wondering when the car might decide not to turn on and keeping a 10 mm wrench handy for the battery connection just in case is not a reasonable solution for a car that is 8 months old. Dealer had no loaner available but I just don't care at this point. I'm sorry if this not the right thread to post in but I suppose it could be software related, I dunno anymore. I really like this car but this is turning into a bit of a bad odyssey.
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Sorry to hear this happened , at least it is in warranty (can you imagine the cost ...later?). It is too bad Hyundai didn't provide some kind of "clear error code - reboot" button to get out of an immediate bad situation like that in particular.
On a side note, I have been carrying small a 10 mm socket (1/4" drive) in my center console box since the missing nuts from the under body panel experience I had, so at least that seems to be the tool to carry (must need accessory) for an assortment of quick fixes.
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apu
Well-Known Member
I agree it they are going to turn cars into giant rolling ipads they really should give some consideration in how to reboot that darn things a little easierSorry to hear this happened , at least it is in warranty (can you imagine the cost ...later?). It is too bad Hyundai didn't provide some kind of "clear error code - reboot" button to get out of an immediate bad situation like that in particular.
On a side note, I have been carrying small a 10 mm socket (1/4" drive) in my center console box since the missing nuts from the under body panel experience I had, so at least that seems to be the tool to carry (must need accessory) for an assortment of quick fixes.
apu
Well-Known Member
Further to rebooting the car, and after doing a little internet sleuthing it appears most Hyundais with push to start ignitions can be rebooted by keeping the start button pressed for ~15 seconds. I did not know this and thought I would share. Now I can't entirely confirm it actually works with the Kona EV as my car is on its 4th consecutive day in the shop for its no start condition. They did called today and tell me they still think its a loose connection and that they have a HYTAC technician involved who is monitoring the car remotely, they expect to have the car a couple more days and expect my new key fob to also arrive and be programmed in that duration. It all sounds nice but I can't help feeling they really have no clue.I agree it they are going to turn cars into giant rolling ipads they really should give some consideration in how to reboot that darn things a little easier
Not sure if that would apply if accessory battery voltage is kaput. Thanks for the info and will keep it in mind . Possible some other (braver) owner out there might give it a try if they are experiencing some kind of software issues, but for now my car is running fine and have cold feet about trying something unproven.
Maybe suggest that to the repair shop? At this point it can't hurt.
apu
Well-Known Member
I have an update on my situation. For the moment it looks like all my troubles may not after all be related to the BMS update. I guess that is good. That said I think I need to start a new thread with me entirely moaning about my rotten luck with the Kona electric.
OK so after 5 days at the dealer I get a call from my service advisor today telling me my new key fob is in and programmed I just need to swap over the physical key from the non functional fob, great! They also tell me the tech found a pin fitment issue at a junction box motor harness, likely messed up from plugging and unplugging during the traction motor swap. They think that has something to do with my intermittent no start. They have a new wiring harness on order. Not sure when it will be in maybe next week, in meantime whenever they try to start the Kona it starts OK, so they suggest I take the car home while I wait. Now I know it mostly got a wall job(i.e.parked by the wall and left there) as they only tried starting it all of twice in the last 3 days because the frigging bluelink keeps pinging my phone the moment the doors are opened but nonetheless I agree, collect the car, new FOB and head home. Just for fun when I get home I try restarting and surprise surprise it won't turn on. My previously mentioned trick about holding down the start button for more than 15 seconds does not work on the Kona, only momentarily disconnecting the battery lead allows it to start. Again just for fun I decide to try the physical key from my "dead" FOB, it won't rotate the cylinder, eureka I figured out the problem with key FOB, it belongs to another Hyundai. Head over to my dealer pull into the service bay, cycle the start button and oddly I feel somewhat vindicated when the car won't start in their service bay. I proceed to express my displeasure about the rolling service gong show. They are ordering a new key blank and I leave with a loaner Accent. At least I get to hold their car ransom while they do nothing with mine
I gotta laugh as I am starting to like the loaner Accent as it starts regularly, gets me to where I need to go and gets a very respectable 5.2 liters/100km fuel consumption. It has he same cheapy interior quality as the Kona. If it had adaptive cruise control and LKA it might be a contender Had a look at my paper work today and between dead batteries, motor swap and no start condition this is my 10th unscheduled service visit in 9 months of ownership. I am starting to know everyone in service department a little more intimately than I really should.
OK so after 5 days at the dealer I get a call from my service advisor today telling me my new key fob is in and programmed I just need to swap over the physical key from the non functional fob, great! They also tell me the tech found a pin fitment issue at a junction box motor harness, likely messed up from plugging and unplugging during the traction motor swap. They think that has something to do with my intermittent no start. They have a new wiring harness on order. Not sure when it will be in maybe next week, in meantime whenever they try to start the Kona it starts OK, so they suggest I take the car home while I wait. Now I know it mostly got a wall job(i.e.parked by the wall and left there) as they only tried starting it all of twice in the last 3 days because the frigging bluelink keeps pinging my phone the moment the doors are opened but nonetheless I agree, collect the car, new FOB and head home. Just for fun when I get home I try restarting and surprise surprise it won't turn on. My previously mentioned trick about holding down the start button for more than 15 seconds does not work on the Kona, only momentarily disconnecting the battery lead allows it to start. Again just for fun I decide to try the physical key from my "dead" FOB, it won't rotate the cylinder, eureka I figured out the problem with key FOB, it belongs to another Hyundai. Head over to my dealer pull into the service bay, cycle the start button and oddly I feel somewhat vindicated when the car won't start in their service bay. I proceed to express my displeasure about the rolling service gong show. They are ordering a new key blank and I leave with a loaner Accent. At least I get to hold their car ransom while they do nothing with mine
I gotta laugh as I am starting to like the loaner Accent as it starts regularly, gets me to where I need to go and gets a very respectable 5.2 liters/100km fuel consumption. It has he same cheapy interior quality as the Kona. If it had adaptive cruise control and LKA it might be a contender
Had a look at my paper work today and between dead batteries, motor swap and no start condition this is my 10th unscheduled service visit in 9 months of ownership. I am starting to know everyone in service department a little more intimately than I really should.
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