Tesla Model Y - maY replace mY beloved Clarity...

[Roger Lambert]

Of course the 250-300 mile range becomes 150 miles in midwinter with heat. Pretty useless vehicle, can't even make it one way to a ski area for me.
My other problem with Teslas is they are all ugly except the big bucks model S, which is quite handsome. Yes I prefer the Clarity's looks to all 3 of them!
Maybe someday they'll make sense.

Sorry, but loss is not quite that bad with Teslas.

 

[Roger Lambert]

The model 3 & Y will charge at up to 250 kW. Before the taper starts it can achieve 1000 miles per hour of charging.
I realistic terms, you will need to charge for about 10-15 minutes for every 3 hours you drive.
Today's Superchargers are "only" 125 kW, so 3 hours driving requires 30-40 minutes of charging. For some people that is a hindrance, for others they stop at least that frequently (I do if my wife is with me - she is 1 1/2 to 2 hours max between stops to walk/stretch)

Unfortunately, you can not get 1000 miles per hour of charge. That rate is only for the first few minutes of charging. And I don't think - could be wrong - we know yet what rate the Y will be charging at on a 3rd gen Supercharger. The 3rd gen can put out 350kW. I would bet it will be able to use it.

 

[Roger Lambert]

And you must remember that there is a limit to how many super chargings you can do on a trip and not harm the battery. (Both Tesla and Nissan admit that)
I took the Clarity over the Tesla and saved enough money to put a 10 kW solar PV system in. I’m not putting up with range anxiety or waiting around on trips to charge.

All you have to do is not charge to 100% each time to cause no harm to a Tesla. Everyone goes to 80% on a long trip to save time anyway. The vast majority of Tesla owners charge at home overnight. There are some taxi/limo services that are using Teslas with tons of charging and their fleets have ridiculous amounts of miles with minimal issues.

 

[Roger Lambert]

If I have to drive a half hour out of my way to reach the charging location, and there's a possibility of a queue for that 15 minutes, the time to charge becomes the insignificant part of the equation. This is the classic chicken and egg . . . . this won't be a viable vehicle until there are a lot more charging locations, and there won't be a lot more charging locations until a lot more of the vehicles are on the road.

I feel enough like a member of a beta test group by owning a Clarity. No way I am going to pay to join the Tesla beta group.

You know, virtually all Tesla owners believe very strongly that their vehicles are indeed perfectly "viable". They are just more willing to put up with occasional small delays to eliminate using gasoline completely. Perhaps it is a 'viable' tradeoff- high-performance, highest safety, joy of driving a car that handles really well, excellent resale value - for some extra time on the occasional long road trip a few times a year?

I have about 2.5 years left on my Clarity lease. It'll be interesting to see the arithmetic on all this then.

 

[4sallypat]

Tesla owners seem to be more the high end tree huggers that claim they want to be environmentally safeguarding.

But in reality, the manufacture of the Tesla car itself is a huge source of battery by product pollution and carbon emissions.
Seems like the reality of making the car never hits the end user....

So while you may think you are "saving" the planet, you have actually already polluted the planet way before you step into a BEV.

At least with a PHEV, we are inbetween the Tesla and an ICE.....

 

[Walt R]

There are some taxi/limo services that are using Teslas with tons of charging and their fleets have ridiculous amounts of miles with minimal issues.

I wouldn't say they've had minimal issues, but they have learned a few things not to do after early battery degradation:

I have about 2.5 years left on my Clarity lease. It'll be interesting to see the arithmetic on all this then.

Me too. I've never leased before but moving to EV, this is the one time I am not willing to say I will be happy to keep the car for 10 years. The features in the market are changing so quickly, there may be a 250 mile EV that is better for me in 2 years. That, combined with unknowns on battery degradation, made a 3-year escape clause attractive in this case. (Plus, the $209/mo ZEV states lease seems to be a screaming good deal.)

 

[Roger Lambert]

Tesla owners seem to be more the high end tree huggers that claim they want to be environmentally safeguarding.

But in reality, the manufacture of the Tesla car itself is a huge source of battery by product pollution and carbon emissions.
Seems like the reality of making the car never hits the end user....

So while you may think you are "saving" the planet, you have actually already polluted the planet way before you step into a BEV.

At least with a PHEV, we are inbetween the Tesla and an ICE.....

Doubtful. These claims about battery production pollution, altho repeated endlessly, come from a single flawed Swedish study, The study presumed that EV batteries would be made in a factory that got 1/2 of its energy from fossil fuels. Tesla's battery production is 100% carbon-neutral. Tesla's batteries use only a tiny amount of cobalt compared to other batteries, and that too will soon be phased out.

Any additional GHG emissions attributable to any BEV's, and especially Tesla BEV's, is canceled out in as little as 6 months of driving without burning gasoline. Even if a BEV got 100% of its charging from a coal burning plant, it would still put out *half* of the greenhouse emissions of a comparably-sized gasoline car over its lifetime.

You got it wrong, bro.

 

[PHEV Newbie]

Tesla owners seem to be more the high end tree huggers that claim they want to be environmentally safeguarding.

But in reality, the manufacture of the Tesla car itself is a huge source of battery by product pollution and carbon emissions.
Seems like the reality of making the car never hits the end user....

So while you may think you are "saving" the planet, you have actually already polluted the planet way before you step into a BEV.

At least with a PHEV, we are inbetween the Tesla and an ICE.....

For a lot of folks in this forum, the Clarity is, for all practical purposes, a BEV. There's so much discussion on whether the gasoline will go bad sitting months (years?) in the tank, major complaints on required oil changes with just a few hundred miles on the ICE, etc. Even for folks who use EV and HV modes equally, you can get nearly 50 mpg if you stay within speed limits in HV. I would categorize the Clarity as a near BEV that's also practical for road trips.

 

[MichiganClarity]

It is no more necessary to travel 1/2 hour out of your way to charge at a Supercharger than it is to do so to find gas. And yes there is the possibility of waiting to charge, but I've seen the same at gas stations (like Costco as an example).

Unless you've taken a road trip in a Tesla using their Supercharger Network, it's hard to appreciate how well it really works. Is it different that driving a gas car a filling up on the road? Yep. Is it worse? Nope - just different. Did an up and back in one day from Portland to Seattle for a conference. Stopped halfway in both directions for a restroom/coffee/dinner break. Spent zero more time than if in a gas car (maybe less since I could "fuel" while eating/walking/getting coffee, etc.).

Is driving on 100% electric for everyone - Nope. Some require the reassurance of a gas engine "just in case". Others don't see the point in hauling one around (and doing the required oil changes, etc) for occasional use. How much extra time is spent in a year taking a PHEV to the dealer for ICE service vs. extra time on road trips for charging a 300+ mile EV?

I was mapping trips just this morning on Tesla’s website wondering if I should have bought a model 3 instead of my Clarity, but I ran into a conundrum. To go to Houghton, MI the system would have me get an hour and 10 minute charge at the last supercharger in Wisconsin, I assume because I will need nearly every last electron available to get the rest of the way to Houghton. That is well enough, my question is, what do I do to get home? The handy button for “find charges near your destination” doesn’t exist when I map this trip, I assume because there are none nearby. I’m not trying to be a smart aleck here; I like the idea of a Tesla, but how do I make this work?

 

[Sandroad]

I was mapping trips just this morning on Tesla’s website wondering if I should have bought a model 3 instead of my Clarity, but I ran into a conundrum. To go to Houghton, MI the system would have me get an hour and 10 minute charge at the last supercharger in Wisconsin, I assume because I will need nearly every last electron available to get the rest of the way to Houghton. That is well enough, my question is, what do I do to get home? The handy button for “find charges near your destination” doesn’t exist when I map this trip, I assume because there are none nearby. I’m not trying to be a smart aleck here; I like the idea of a Tesla, but how do I make this work?

Nothing smart aleck about the question at all! The answer is, you don't The charger network for an EV and especially the supercharger network necessary to make extended trips viable is a very regional-specific consideration. I checked things out carefully here in Michigan before deciding on a PHEV and found that especially in Michigan's Upper Peninsula, but many other places in the state as well, there is no useful charger network. Heck, I couldn't even figure out a way to make a 250 miles round trip to my dad's in northern Indiana from central Michigan in a BEV. The Clarity is perfect for that in this part of the country. We are the state of thundering, pushrod valve-train, V8s and there is a Speedway gas station every few miles to accommodate that.

 

[V8Power]

No one has mentioned how fun it is to drive the Model 3 compared to the clarity. 0-60 in 3 secs, its rapid acceleration is quite intoxicating. I know we don't need it but it's just fun.

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Love that supercar performance level! Makes it about 3x Clarity cost for performance version tho...


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[MPower]

My idea of supercar performance is press on-button in A and go to B. If I get to B without incident that is super.

 

[V8Power]

My idea of supercar performance is press on-button in A and go to B. If I get to B without incident that is super.

When full autonomous mode is released and allowed on the Teslas then your wish may actually one true!


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[DaleL]

What I cannot help but notice is that Clarity owners frequently have a picture (avatar) of their Clarity. Whereas, the Tesla advocates (fanboys) don't have a picture of "their" Tesla. The Tesla Y does not exist. Even if it is sold on schedule, it will not be available for 1.5 years and at close to $50k with zero Federal tax credit.

On a yearly basis, Tesla has never made money. The last moves by Musk/Tesla seem to be those of a company that is about to fold.

 

[David Towle]

On a yearly basis, Tesla has never made money. The last moves by Musk/Tesla seem to be those of a company that is about to fold.

Tesla has some great technology and products, if its stock was not so overvalued I think they would have been bought up by now by an auto firm.

 

[Roger Lambert]

On a yearly basis, Tesla has never made money. The last moves by Musk/Tesla seem to be those of a company that is about to fold.

They haven't "made any money"? They haven't reported annual profits, because they are reinvesting profits in infrastructure, but that is a very different thing. They just broke ground on Gigafactory number 3, with another planned soon in Europe.

They make some of the healthiest margins in the industry. They have had two quarters in a row with $3 billion in income each from the Model 3 alone. They are now opening up the markets in Europe and China, so those numbers will only be going up.

They are far from folding. GM, on the other hand.......

 

[JulianClarity]

7 passengers in a model3 sized suv? Are you counting 2 dogs in the back seats as passengers as well?

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Tesla has some great technology and products, if its stock was not so overvalued...

At the risk of a derail, I subscribe to the “Efficient Market Hypothesis”.

What is a share of TSLA stock really worth? Checking right now, $269.96. Whether that’s over- or undervalued only makes sense in hindsight. Every buyer has a seller at $269.96, or at least pretty close, and they all ideally have access to the same information we do.

But maybe that would deserve its own thread.

 

[David Towle]

Sorry, but loss is not quite that bad with Teslas.

What is the real deep winter range loss with a Tesla?

 

[Roger Lambert]

What is the real deep winter range loss with a Tesla?

Just saw a comment elsewhere by a Tesla owner in Minnesota who said it was 20% in winter, and 30% when below -10F.

Worst case is going on short trip, with heat on. Then stop until car is frozen, then do again.

Usual case is a longer trip with heat and battery warms up, so they say not a problem because worst case is short trips around town, but plenty of range for that.

That's better than my Clarity in Vermont. It only gets about 27 miles when it is really cold.