Tesla Model Y - maY replace mY beloved Clarity...

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Viking79 said:
Charging around 170 miles in 15 minutes . . .
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If I have to drive a half hour out of my way to reach the charging location, and there's a possibility of a queue for that 15 minutes, the time to charge becomes the insignificant part of the equation. This is the classic chicken and egg . . . . this won't be a viable vehicle until there are a lot more charging locations, and there won't be a lot more charging locations until a lot more of the vehicles are on the road.

I feel enough like a member of a beta test group by owning a Clarity. No way I am going to pay to join the Tesla beta group.
 
The model 3 & Y will charge at up to 250 kW. Before the taper starts it can achieve 1000 miles per hour of charging.
I realistic terms, you will need to charge for about 10-15 minutes for every 3 hours you drive.
Today's Superchargers are "only" 125 kW, so 3 hours driving requires 30-40 minutes of charging. For some people that is a hindrance, for others they stop at least that frequently (I do if my wife is with me - she is 1 1/2 to 2 hours max between stops to walk/stretch)
 
MNSteve said:
If I have to drive a half hour out of my way to reach the charging location, and there's a possibility of a queue for that 15 minutes, the time to charge becomes the insignificant part of the equation. This is the classic chicken and egg . . . . this won't be a viable vehicle until there are a lot more charging locations, and there won't be a lot more charging locations until a lot more of the vehicles are on the road.

I feel enough like a member of a beta test group by owning a Clarity. No way I am going to pay to join the Tesla beta group.
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It is no more necessary to travel 1/2 hour out of your way to charge at a Supercharger than it is to do so to find gas. And yes there is the possibility of waiting to charge, but I've seen the same at gas stations (like Costco as an example).

Unless you've taken a road trip in a Tesla using their Supercharger Network, it's hard to appreciate how well it really works. Is it different that driving a gas car a filling up on the road? Yep. Is it worse? Nope - just different. Did an up and back in one day from Portland to Seattle for a conference. Stopped halfway in both directions for a restroom/coffee/dinner break. Spent zero more time than if in a gas car (maybe less since I could "fuel" while eating/walking/getting coffee, etc.).

Is driving on 100% electric for everyone - Nope. Some require the reassurance of a gas engine "just in case". Others don't see the point in hauling one around (and doing the required oil changes, etc) for occasional use. How much extra time is spent in a year taking a PHEV to the dealer for ICE service vs. extra time on road trips for charging a 300+ mile EV?
 
It sure doesn't take long to fill the Clarity PHEV's 7-gallon gas tank to go another 300 miles. The tank is so small, it doesn't really pay to seek out a Costco to save a few cents per gallon. But yes, if you don't want to burn gas, you need a Tesla to go 300 miles.
 
No one has mentioned how fun it is to drive the Model 3 compared to the clarity. 0-60 in 3 secs, its rapid acceleration is quite intoxicating. I know we don't need it but it's just fun.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 
Viking79 said:
Most likely Clarity will be one and done (it only exists from ZEV credits and tax credits). I like it a lot, but it is a car that should cost $45,000 and can't sell for $37,500 so is discounted 10% or more. Honda doesn't make money on it directly. It is a great car to buy, not for Honda to sell.

$35k Model 3 is already shipping. Price in the US is always advertised without destination fees. That is standard practice. Yes, when you add in required transportation fee it is $36,200, but that is true with any new car sold.

No myth to the Model Y. It will likely be my next car. Charging around 170 miles in 15 minutes, more headroom than Model 3 or Clarity PHEV. Yes, it will cost more for long range model I would get.
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Sadly, you are correct. As the virtually identical (has fast charging capability though) Clarity sells for $55,000 (in Yen) in Japan, there is no doubt that Honda is taking a big loss on each it sells here. The only thing that made the Clarity viable at all is that the drive train is essentially the same as the Accord, CR-V (only in Europe and Japan so far), and Insight hybrids but with a big battery. This cross-feeding is a good thing because Consumer Reports testing has shown the Insight to be the most fuel efficient vehicle they've ever tested, besting the Prius even though the Insight is a larger and more powerful vehicle.
 
PHEV Newbie said:
Sadly, you are correct. As the virtually identical (has fast charging capability though) Clarity sells for $55,000 (in Yen) in Japan, there is no doubt that Honda is taking a big loss on each it sells here. The only thing that made the Clarity viable at all is that the drive train is essentially the same as the Accord, CR-V (only in Europe and Japan so far), and Insight hybrids but with a big battery. This cross-feeding is a good thing because Consumer Reports testing has shown the Insight to be the most fuel efficient vehicle they've ever tested, besting the Prius even though the Insight is a larger and more powerful vehicle.
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They seem to be really setting up for a hybrid future as is Toyota, if you can get the masses to adopt the Insight, Corolla Hybrid, etc, gas usage will be cut dramatically.

However, full EV might be coming quicker than these companies were anticipating. VW should hit a low price point by 2025 for sure, even Tesla is talking competing at lower price points. Those hybrids are here today, hope the sell well, but they need to get the systems in more CUVs.
 
It’s important not to forget destination charging when considering road trips in a Tesla. The destination chargers are very useful for those multiple day road trips.

I like the Clarity, but if Honda doesn’t have a long range BEV within the next few years, I will be doing the same as the OP.
 
4sallypat said:
@DaleL is correct - look at the ill gotten model 3 that has never materialized into a $35K car as originally promised.
With the build quality issues of the mass production level model 3, the Y model will suffer the same issues.

I for one will wait for Honda to make an AWD Pilot PHEV....
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It rare to see a Clarity here in South Puget Sound. I think I've seen two in the last year. The other day I saw two model 3's, 4 model S's and one model X on a three mile drive.

All most everyday, I see the model X parked down the hill and a model 3 or model S charging at the public charger down the hill. So far Tesla has the lead.
 
DaleL said:
That's too harsh.Model Y is vaporware. Tesla has constantly over promised and under delivered. The first Model Y, if on schedule in 2020, will cost $50,000 and have a ZERO Federal tax credit. It is never fair to compare that which exists (Clarity) with that which does not (Model Y). Where exactly is that much promised $35k Model 3? (The latest promised future price is $36.2k.)

Imagine what a future Clarity might be like; a 240 hp drive motor, 26 kwh battery (73 mile EV range), flat floor trunk, etc., all for $37k minus $7.5k tax credit. It would/will be a faster, better Clarity and probably 1/2 the final price of the mythical Model Y.
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That's too harsh.The Y was unveiled, will be based on M3 chassis. Not out yet, but far from vapourware. Tesla has actually done a good job with promised timelines, and has done an incredible job with deliveries and product. Vastly superior to the rest of the industry in regard to development time especially considering they are still building infrastructure. You need to cut them a little more slack.

You are right, tho, about future comparisons. Which could go either way - for all we know Honda will do what GM did to the Volt.
 
Viking79 said:
They seem to be really setting up for a hybrid future as is Toyota, if you can get the masses to adopt the Insight, Corolla Hybrid, etc, gas usage will be cut dramatically.

However, full EV might be coming quicker than these companies were anticipating. VW should hit a low price point by 2025 for sure, even Tesla is talking competing at lower price points. Those hybrids are here today, hope the sell well, but they need to get the systems in more CUVs.
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A BEV seems the way to go, as it seems simpler. If you can find a good price on a used one, it would seem to make a good commuter car.

From my point of view, I have had two major repairs to the electrical components of the gas engine in my Sonata Plug-in. With an additional gas engine, there just more things to go wrong with the vehicle.
 
4sallypat said:
@DaleL is correct - look at the ill gotten model 3 that has never materialized into a $35K car as originally promised.
With the build quality issues of the mass production level model 3, the Y model will suffer the same issues.

I for one will wait for Honda to make an AWD Pilot PHEV....
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Actually it did appear. Unfortunately for only about a week before prices went up - but some people are receiving a $35K Model 3. And despite the rabid claims of build quality, most customers have zero problems, and Tesla customer satisfaction has been tops in the industry for, what - five years in a row>

Stop with the hyperbole. We wouldn't have a Clarity if not for Tesla.
 
Roger Lambert said:
Unless we come to our senses and increase EV rebates.
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Because the evidence that we are coming to our senses is so very prevalent right now. Haha.

I’m kind of convinced that it would be better to just expire the fed credit. It’s messing with the market long term. No reason companies that say on the sidelines these past get years should now benefit. This is from someone who got $12,500 in credits last year from my Clarity.
 
marshall said:
A BEV seems the way to go, as it seems simpler. If you can find a good price on a used one, it would seem to make a good commuter car.

From my point of view, I have had two major repairs to the electrical components of the gas engine in my Sonata Plug-in. With an additional gas engine, there just more things to go wrong with the vehicle.
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I'm not so sure about "simpler". Ever see an exploded view of the mechanicals of a Bolt? It has no frunk - that bay is jammed full of tech needed to provide the amenities that sort of come for free with an ICE in the car. Several heaters for different areas of the car - cabin heating, battery heating, etc. Same for cooling. Plus, the BEV has systems that are not needed on an ICE car - regenerative braking, a whole lot of charging/ drivetrain electronics, etc.

Yes, an ICE with transmission has a LOT more parts, but on the other hand, we have had more than 100 years of engineering/manufacturing expertise which has done a lot to perfect those systems. Nowadays, the drive train on most cars is impressively bulletproof.

Be interesting to see how quickly the BEV becomes correspondingly perfected.
 
AlanSqB said:
Because the evidence that we are coming to our senses is so very prevalent right now. Haha.

I’m kind of convinced that it would be better to just expire the fed credit. It’s messing with the market long term. No reason companies that say on the sidelines these past get years should now benefit. This is from someone who got $12,500 in credits last year from my Clarity.
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I disagree. EV rebates are not just a free-market tweak device, or at least they should not be. They are part of our whole renewable energy development plan. Given that the cost to wait too long is - literally - quadrillions of dollars of climate adaptation costs [https://thinkprogress.org/flashback...nt-co2-path-so-we-must-mitigate-608973f0cc6a/] - and that number is only up to year 2100, while atmospheric CO2 will last for 5,000 to 10,000 years. Every dollar we spend as a nation electrifying our energy system is likely the best ROI in the history of the world.

The way I see it, not increasing all RE subsidies is a suicide pact. Every dollar of any RE subsidy is a dollar that actually buys new RE infrastructure. We should be demanding that we start spending the real money it will take to get us to where we need to be, instead of fatalistically accepting the phase-out of these subsidies.
 
PHEV Newbie said:
Model Y looks like a winner but I still prefer 5 minute gas station fill ups on road trips compared with 40 min stops for Teslas to get to 80% on road trips. My bladder prefers the short spacing of gas stations compared to far flung supercharger stations.
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Is there a law that says you can't stop for pee breaks as often as you like if you have a BEV? How can we explain to our great grandkids that we didn't electrify our transportation sector as fast as possible because of pee breaks on occasional long road trips?
 
MNSteve said:
Question. I could look for this on the web but I would get a bunch of different answers. Not that I won't get a bunch of different answers from the crowd here.

So I buy a Tesla with 300-mile range. After I've driven the 300 miles, how long does it take to charge me up for the next 300? Answers of current available technology and future planned technology accepted, but please help me understand what's here today and what's promised for tomorrow. Whatever "tomorrow" is.
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I am no expert, but the way to do it is to plan your trip around Supercharger stations so that you take the car down to about 20% charge, and then charge to no more than 80%, because the rate of charging goes down at 80%. So, you likely have 1 more stop, but all your stops are much shorter. Now that the 3rd generation of Superchargers is coming out, those stops - in future Teslas - will be a LOT shorter. You will be able to go from 20% to 80% in 10 or 15 minutes.
 
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