Tesla Model Y - maY replace mY beloved Clarity...

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If the Model Y is classified as a crossover I'm okay with that. But I have a much different image in mind when a car is classified as an SUV. I think of the range of vehicles from 4Runner to Escalade. To me an SUV is rugged and rugged looking. It has 4x4, a high ground clearance, and a boxy rear end.

Don't get me wrong I think the Y is going to be a huge seller. With American taste shifting strongly away from sedans to crossovers and SUVs the Y will more than fill the bill. The price, starting at $39K is not out of line with other cars in that class. It brings all of the benefits of Tesla including five star crash results, automatic software over-the-air updates, the charging network, good handling and good acceleration. I'd like to know more about the cargo space and see it with the lift-back open.
 
RickSE said:
I would agree that the clarity is not a Model S. The clarity isn’t a Mercedes, Porsche or BMW either. The Mosel S starts at $76k. After incentives, rebates and tax credits by Clarity Touring cost 1/3 of that amount. The Model S is a gorgeous car - I just don’t want to pay for it personally.
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I understand, but I actually meant that in terms of Tesla in general. That's why I said I would have preferred a Model 3 (now at $35,000 base) over the Clarity. Obviously it's tough and unfair to compare a Model S with a Clarity, but it's fair to compare a Model 3 with a Clarity at base prices.
 
Fully electric cars... You buy them because of the range.

As far as I know there's nothing announced by another car maker that is an SUV with 250-300miles range anytime sooner than the Y.

I own a clarity, and a model 3, and the biggest reason I like the M3 more is the range. Clarity's 40+ ev range is good, but it's not nearly enough for any kind of road trip you want to do driving your car.

To me there is no comparison unless a competitor has at least 200 ev range.

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bulls96 said:
Fully electric cars... You buy them because of the range.

As far as I know there's nothing announced by another car maker that is an SUV with 250-300miles range anytime sooner than the Y.

I own a clarity, and a model 3, and the biggest reason I like the M3 more is the range. Clarity's 40+ ev range is good, but it's not nearly enough for any kind of road trip you want to do driving your car.

To me there is no comparison unless a competitor has at least 200 ev range.

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Yes range is far superior. I would also seriously consider buying a Model Y because it’s real-life HAL with wheels, plus lowest injury risk in the world and performance madness. Too bad it is 2x to 3x the cost of Clarity around here after considering the Ontario rebate that is history. Auto summon anywhere in a parking lot? Autonomous driving?


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What will be the next model name be now that Elon finished spelling “S3XY”?

There is a reason the suv form factor is popular and along with others having mentioned it I would absolutely love a PHEV SUV. I almost did not get the beloved Clarity because it is a sedan. I still wonder if it will be an issue once I turn in my CRV.

I know a there are some PHEV SUV our there or coming out but most are too big or too expensive or are not readily available in the US. Honda’s most popular model is the CRV and a PHEV versión would certainly draw many in. I know I would buy one. I really hope that that will be a choice by the time I’m ready to trade in the Clarity.

Will the model Y be successful? I think very much so. For me I agree with @jdonalds; my driving can be best handled with the dual nature of a PHEV. Could I do it all electric, probably, but I like being able to leverage the gasoline infrastructure when needed and electric when it is not.
 
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qtpie said:
After 2019, no federal incentives for Tesla. These Y models will be delivered in 2020, so let's go your breath now... There will be 0 rebate for these.
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To be fair, by late 2020 there will probably be no federal rebates on any EVs so I wouldn’t count on it as a factor.
 
The Gadgeteer said:
it’s Tesla. Don’t hold you breath on those dates or those no longer eligible for the rebate prices.

Tesla disrupted the automobile industry for the better by making electric cars cool, practical, fast, and desirable. All from an upstart in the automobile industry. We are all interested what Tesla will produce a few years from now. However, in the meantime enjoy your Clarity. It is a great car. A few years from now you can reassess your options.
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How can it be considered a replacement at 2x the price?
 
Ken7 said:
Had it not been for my wife and her fear of having two totally electric cars, I would have bought a Model 3 instead of the Clarity. The Clarity is a great car, but having owned a Model S for the last 1 1/2 years, the Clarity is not a Tesla.
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How can one compare any car with a 5x price difference?
 
228ra said:
How can it be considered a replacement at 2x the price?
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Not an equivalent but an upgrade. I went with Clarity because it was the absolute best value during Ontario rebate. Model 3 wasn’t available then and it was about 2x anyways.


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Model Y looks like a winner but I still prefer 5 minute gas station fill ups on road trips compared with 40 min stops for Teslas to get to 80% on road trips. My bladder prefers the short spacing of gas stations compared to far flung supercharger stations.
 
Question. I could look for this on the web but I would get a bunch of different answers. Not that I won't get a bunch of different answers from the crowd here.

So I buy a Tesla with 300-mile range. After I've driven the 300 miles, how long does it take to charge me up for the next 300? Answers of current available technology and future planned technology accepted, but please help me understand what's here today and what's promised for tomorrow. Whatever "tomorrow" is.
 
Gearhead said:
Be aware if you check pricing on the Tesla website they 'help' you by automatically (and pretty deceptively) reducing their price by deducting their calculated fuel savings.
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And the thing that always annoys me, not only with Tesla but with "carbon avoided" calculations like Chargepoint does, is that they tilt the stats in their favor by comparing to the cost/emissions of an "average" gas vehicle. I've seen the "gas equivalent" mpg used as low as 22 mpg. In some cases I will be wrong, but I think most EV/PHEV buyers would be in a 40+ mpg hybrid if not an electric. Personally, if I were buying an ICE vehicle I would immediately cross anything that can't achieve 35 mpg off my list.
 
MNSteve said:
So I buy a Tesla with 300-mile range. After I've driven the 300 miles, how long does it take to charge me up for the next 300? Answers of current available technology and future planned technology accepted, but please help me understand what's here today and what's promised for tomorrow. Whatever "tomorrow" is.
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You can do some simple math on this. Many times people quote charge rates in "miles per hour" so it is even easier.

First, though, you should realize that 1) you should only charge to 80% on road trips so you don't wait for trickle charging, and 2) you'll want to leave about 50 miles of margin when heading for unfamiliar chargers so you can reach another charge site if there is a problem. Call that another 20% on the bottom end.

So, a 300 mile BEV would actually only charge about 60% at a stop. Assuming a battery around 75 kWh, that would be 45 kWh to replace. So, a 100 kW charger will take .45 hours (27 min) to deliver that, if it can maintain peak charge rate and losses are not too high. Just plug in whatever other charge rate you want to assume to get other figures. I think that many current fast chargers are around 50 kW.
 
And you must remember that there is a limit to how many super chargings you can do on a trip and not harm the battery. (Both Tesla and Nissan admit that)
I took the Clarity over the Tesla and saved enough money to put a 10 kW solar PV system in. I’m not putting up with range anxiety or waiting around on trips to charge.
 
Of course the 250-300 mile range becomes 150 miles in midwinter with heat. Pretty useless vehicle, can't even make it one way to a ski area for me.
My other problem with Teslas is they are all ugly except the big bucks model S, which is quite handsome. Yes I prefer the Clarity's looks to all 3 of them!
Maybe someday they'll make sense.
 
Walt R said:
You can do some simple math on this. Many times people quote charge rates in "miles per hour" so it is even easier.

First, though, you should realize that 1) you should only charge to 80% on road trips so you don't wait for trickle charging, and 2) you'll want to leave about 50 miles of margin when heading for unfamiliar chargers so you can reach another charge site if there is a problem. Call that another 20% on the bottom end.

So, a 300 mile BEV would actually only charge about 60% at a stop. Assuming a battery around 75 kWh, that would be 45 kWh to replace. So, a 100 kW charger will take .45 hours (27 min) to deliver that, if it can maintain peak charge rate and losses are not too high. Just plug in whatever other charge rate you want to assume to get other figures. I think that many current fast chargers are around 50 kW.
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This is the first time I have ever tried to relate a BEV to my real-life driving. It would be fine for my local errands, but so is the Clarity. But my most common trip is 100 miles one way, which isn't really that far. Given a 300-mile range, and derating it for cold weather, only an 80% charge, and the need to reach an alternative charge site if necessary, I would not feel comfortable making the round trip on one charge. That means that I would need to locate one of the three Tesla charging stations in that area and leave myself about a half hour there, plus travel time to/from. At some point in the future I will be able to count on having a charging station within walking distance of my destination so I can just park there and charge while I do whatever I traveled to do . . . but that's going to be a long time coming. My conclusion is that at this point in the development of the technology, a BEV is useful to me only as a vehicle for local use, and I am unwilling to buy such a limited vehicle.

Thanks for your input. Yes, the math is simple, but the input numbers seem to vary depending on the relative humidity.
 
Gearhead said:
Be aware if you check pricing on the Tesla website they 'help' you by automatically (and pretty deceptively) reducing their price by deducting their calculated fuel savings.
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The "after savings" and "before savings" prices are right there in the same font size. Annoying, sure, but not deceptive. If it really bothers you, open up the "estimate payment" thing and change yearly mileage to 1 and it'll change gas savings to $0.
 
DaleL said:
Tesla Model Y is vaporware. Tesla has constantly over promised and under delivered. The first Model Y, if on schedule in 2020, will cost $50,000 and have a ZERO Federal tax credit. It is never fair to compare that which exists (Clarity) with that which does not (Model Y). Where exactly is that much promised $35k Model 3? (The latest promised future price is $36.2k.)

Imagine what a future Clarity might be like; a 240 hp drive motor, 26 kwh battery (73 mile EV range), flat floor trunk, etc., all for $37k minus $7.5k tax credit. It would/will be a faster, better Clarity and probably 1/2 the final price of the mythical Model Y.
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Most likely Clarity will be one and done (it only exists from ZEV credits and tax credits). I like it a lot, but it is a car that should cost $45,000 and can't sell for $37,500 so is discounted 10% or more. Honda doesn't make money on it directly. It is a great car to buy, not for Honda to sell.

$35k Model 3 is already shipping. Price in the US is always advertised without destination fees. That is standard practice. Yes, when you add in required transportation fee it is $36,200, but that is true with any new car sold.

No myth to the Model Y. It will likely be my next car. Charging around 170 miles in 15 minutes, more headroom than Model 3 or Clarity PHEV. Yes, it will cost more for long range model I would get.
 
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