Repair issues and fixes

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KiwiME said:
more due to aluminium from a spinning outer race than steel shed off gear teeth?
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When OzKona analysis results arrive that question should be more clear (pardon the pun).... regardless either condition would eventually require entire gearbox replacement so sadly not a definitive answer.
Maybe a little too much torque with heavy regen and spirited accelerations would be a contributing factor. I think Hyundai should address this issue with a design improvement change; better materials, filtration, ease of fluid replacement c/w annual oil replacement at least at material cost alone;)
 
electriceddy said:
It seems like a fill and drain flush may not be enough to remove particles and slush from the housing itself, and any buried within the gears themselves.
I wonder if equipment is available to force oil circulation under pressure to accomplish this task and achieve better results.
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I would have thought that the double oil change at the 4,000 km mark would have been enough. I did the same and it seemed to work.
electriceddy said:
...I think Hyundai should address this issue with a design improvement change...
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If the revamped 2023 Niro is any indication of what the equivalent Kona will look like, their response unfortunately will be to limit the motor torque by 35% as I had noted a week or two back. This is exactly what is done when an automaker wants to use an existing transmission with a lighter rating than their turbocharged ICE engine is capable of.
Niro motor performance.webp
 
electriceddy said:
Maybe a little too much torque with heavy regen and spirited accelerations would be a contributing factor. I think Hyundai should address this issue with a design improvement change; better materials, filtration, ease of fluid replacement c/w annual oil replacement at least at material cost alone;)
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It has always been my thinking that a mismatch between the motor torque and the gearbox design is the core of the problem, not just a contributing factor. My oil at 23K km and 3 years was black like everyone else’s, but otherwise I don’t detect any symptoms. I did a motorway cabin noise comparison between my 2 cars shortly before the oil change, using a phone app, so I have repeated that exactly with the Kona, and got an unchanged outcome @56 decibels.
Why? A 100kph speed limit, and I typically cruise @90 GPS - so no high revs, no interstate high-speed commuting under time pressure etc. “Granny driving”? Some might think so, but I’m not averse to smart take-offs at the lights..

@KiwiME recently highlighted an apparent detune for the 2023 model, so perhaps Hyundai are on to this after all..
 
electriceddy said:
Good detailed video here demonstrating brake service cleaning and lubing:

Good reasons to use the brakes once in a while, to avoid the rust buildup on the rotors;)
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Sigh I really hate newer cars, need a damn scan tool to do a simple brake job. I really need to find an "inexpensive" scan tool that will let me to control the parking brake as well as bleed both the ABS pump and the HV battery coolant loop.
 
instanoodles said:
Sigh I really hate newer cars, need a damn scan tool to do a simple brake job. I really need to find an "inexpensive" scan tool that will let me to control the parking brake as well as bleed both the ABS pump and the HV battery coolant loop.
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See video below the parking parking brake motor can be taken off without a scan tool. Doesn't cover ABS bleeding
 
instanoodles said:
Sigh I really hate newer cars, need a damn scan tool to do a simple brake job. I really need to find an "inexpensive" scan tool that will let me to control the parking brake as well as bleed both the ABS pump and the HV battery coolant loop.
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I do the routine lubrication of the callipers et al in my wife’s 2021 Kona EV once a year, with no fan fare.

No diagnostic tools have ever been required.

The biggest PITA for this job is the small locking barbs that keep the brake pads against the rotor…
 
hieronymous said:
It has always been my thinking that a mismatch between the motor torque and the gearbox design is the core of the problem, not just a contributing factor. My oil at 23K km and 3 years was black like everyone else’s, but otherwise I don’t detect any symptoms. I did a motorway cabin noise comparison between my 2 cars shortly before the oil change, using a phone app, so I have repeated that exactly with the Kona, and got an unchanged outcome @56 decibels.
Why? A 100kph speed limit, and I typically cruise @90 GPS - so no high revs, no interstate high-speed commuting under time pressure etc. “Granny driving”? Some might think so, but I’m not averse to smart take-offs at the lights..

@KiwiME recently highlighted an apparent detune for the 2023 model, so perhaps Hyundai are on to this after all..
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electriceddy said:
When OzKona analysis results arrive that question should be more clear (pardon the pun).... regardless either condition would eventually require entire gearbox replacement so sadly not a definitive answer.
Maybe a little too much torque with heavy regen and spirited accelerations would be a contributing factor. I think Hyundai should address this issue with a design improvement change; better materials, filtration, ease of fluid replacement c/w annual oil replacement at least at material cost alone;)
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I have to admit this is the first time in all the cars I have owned (63 Chevy Corvair, 68 Plymouth Satellite, 72 VW Bug, 76 Fiat 136, 79 Honda Accord, 90 Honda Civic, 2003 VW Golf, 2013 VW Golf, and finally my 2020 Hyundai Kona EV) that I ever had any interest in the mechanics of the car. That being said here I am studying all the posts on this reduction gear oil issue. As a novice I have a question. I bought the Votex drain plug and plan to have it installed at my local Hyundai dealership tomorrow. But I was looking at a video of a reduction gear box oil change and they mention 2 plugs. The drain plug and fill plug and I was wondering why I am not replacing both. They both appear to be magnetic. Thanks!
 
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Susanne Krivit said:
..They both appear to be magnetic.
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So, neither of the original plugs are magnetic and by evidence from numerous black, particle-laden oil changes and @hobbit's paperclip experiment it seems clear that there is no functional internal magnet either.

You only need to add one magnetic drain plug and it doesn't matter which opening it goes in but the drain would normally be preferred. But the Votex plug is tightened less than the original plug and has a smaller hex top (17mm socket size). Some of us have installed two Votex just for overkill which also tides up those points during installation.

It's early days (7 months) with these plugs in the big picture but so-far it doesn't seem that two magnets are better than one for catching and retaining ferromagnetic particles. Rather it seems from @navguy12's experiment that any added magnetic field is better than what's in there now.

We'll all be interested in what the dealership says as I'd not be surprised if they balk at installing a non-factory part. Be sure to let them know it needs to be torqued to a lower value, 26-28 lb-ft seems about right with the soft aluminium washer Votex supply. Post your experience and what they say about the black oil.

Several owners had special-ordered the Hyundai OEM magnetic plug (see photo) and in all cases they turned out to be non-magnetic!

Votex and stock plugs:
IMG_1593.webp

Stock plugs in place:
IMG_1554.webp

Votex plugs in place, second one is optional:
IMG_1625.webp

Hyundai's non-magnetic "magnetic drain plug":
Hyundai 00810-17121.webp
Untitled.webp
 
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Chris53825 said:
Thanks - which size did you get? There seems to be several to choose from.
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I believe this will answer your question:
index.php

index.php
;)
(pictures courtesy of @navguy12 )
 
Thanks a ton electriceddy! I'm planning to do my next change at 5,000 miles fairly soon (did my first at 1,000) and I am on the fence about getting using the dual 3/4 magnets as shown above or getting the Votex. Using the magnets has the added benefit of not risking a warranty rejection or a magnet getting loose inside. I just question if it's as good as going with the Votex over the long term.

If I do go with the Votex, are the crush washers required or can I just use the original washer that came with the car?
 
Those are the right questions to be asking and I think there is already some data on all points other than warranty claim rejection.

Certainly the security of the magnet worries me the most and I had posed that question to Votex last year and searched for any relevant reports of failures, but nothing adverse was found. The gearbox does not get hot and differential expansion (magnet to body) is not widely different as it would be with an aluminium plug body.

I had bought a older-technology glued-type stainless magnetic plug long ago in 2003 for my new Golf TDI (engine) and by the next oil change found the magnet had come loose. An engine is less risky than a gearbox because it would probably stick to the oil strainer. I've checked my dual Votex after being in place for 6 months and the magnets are of-course still tight. Clearly a failure would not only take out the gearbox and nearby expensive items but could cause an accident. There's also the possibility of the magnet getting chipped or cracked if dropped on a hard surface and coming apart later, another worry to keep me awake at night when modifications of a technical nature are offered to the general public.

Another option is to find a Toyota application which typically use a crimped-in ceramic magnet. Look on 4WD accessory sites for older Landcruisers, see p/n below. M18x1.5 is the size with a 12-15mm long thread. I think this might be your best bet, assuming you're in the US and it would provide useful data to the community.

I have another brand off Amazon to try out which I'm testing now by hanging it by its magnet in gear oil. Small US-based 4x4 shops won't ship here so if it isn't on Amazon I can't get it.

You'll have to make your own call regarding the warranty. You could always just ask your dealer, with part in hand to show them it's relatively benign.

As for aluminium washers it makes little difference. Votex washers are soft and 2mm thick, the OEM is 1.5 and a bit harder. They can be used twice but some of us just buy a pack of the Votex which will last a lifetime. Tightening torque spec will be affected by those parameters.
IMG_2005.webp s-l640.webp
 
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KiwiME said:
Those are the right questions to be asking and I think there is already some data on all points other than warranty claim rejection.

Certainly the security of the magnet worries me the most and I had posed that question to Votex last year and searched for any relevant reports of failures, but nothing adverse was found. The gearbox does not get hot and differential expansion (magnet to body) is not widely different as it would be with an aluminium plug body.

I had bought a older-technology glued-type stainless magnetic plug long ago in 2003 for my new Golf TDI (engine) and by the next oil change found the magnet had come loose. An engine is less risky than a gearbox because it would probably stick to the oil strainer. I've checked my dual Votex after being in place for 6 months and the magnets are of-course still tight. Clearly a failure would not only take out the gearbox and nearby expensive items but could cause an accident. There's also the possibility of the magnet getting chipped or cracked if dropped on a hard surface and coming apart later, another worry to keep me awake at night when modifications of a technical nature are offered to the general public.

Another option is to find a Toyota application which typically use a crimped-in ceramic magnet. Look on 4WD accessory sites for older Landcruisers, see p/n below. M18x1.5 is the size with a 12-15mm long thread. I think this might be your best bet, assuming you're in the US and it would provide useful data to the community.

I have another brand off Amazon to try out which I'm testing now by hanging it by its magnet in gear oil. Small US-based 4x4 shops won't ship here so if it isn't on Amazon I can't get it.

You'll have to make your own call regarding the warranty. You could always just ask your dealer, with part in hand to show them it's relatively benign.

As for aluminium washers it makes little difference. Votex washers are soft and 2mm thick, the OEM is 1.5 and a bit harder. They can be used twice but some of us just buy a pack of the Votex which will last a lifetime. Tightening torque spec will be affected by those parameters.
View attachment 17023 View attachment 17024
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Thanks Kiwi. By "there is some data" I think you're referring to your earlier post indicating that the external magnet is actually effective, correct? Also, by your statement "they can be used twice", are you referring to the original washer, the Votex crush washer, or both?

I'm intrigued by the Toyota crimp plug you mentioned. I'll need to search for one and make sure it's not too deep.
 
Chris53825 said:
Thanks Kiwi. By "there is some data" I think you're referring to your earlier post indicating that the external magnet is actually effective, correct? Also, by your statement "they can be used twice", are you referring to the original washer, the Votex crush washer, or both?

I'm intrigued by the Toyota crimp plug you mentioned. I'll need to search for one and make sure it's not too deep.
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The external magnets have shown to collect the black goop/ooze that can be wiped off with a clean cloth. I have a picture of that further up this thread (no access to my laptop right now or I would repeat post that picture).
 
navguy12 said:
The external magnets have shown to collect the black goop/ooze that can be wiped off with a clean cloth. I have a picture of that further up this thread (no access to my laptop right now or I would repeat post that picture).
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Why not, anything to help out fellow members:)
Drain:
index.php

Fill:
index.php

Close up of plug c/w magnets attached (note the 3/4 inch magnets small enough not to interfere with socket for removal, but large enough to do the job):

index.php

Once again pictures courtesy of @navguy12
 
Chris53825 said:
I'm intrigued by the Toyota crimp plug you mentioned. I'll need to search for one and make sure it's not too deep.
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I asked my local Toyota dealer about this part and they said there was one in stock in a nearby town so I drove over to check it out. Curiosity got the better of me so I paid the absurd NZ$50 price tag.

It looks identical and measures the same in every dimension as the Hyundai part, other than the zinc plating and ceramic magnet. I'd have to believe it was made by the same supplier and is used by Toyota in the old-style Landcruiser (among others), a vehicle still sold here new.
The magnet is weak, typical for the ceramic type but I suspect that it's good enough. I might install it at some point along with the one OEM plug and see what happens.
IMG_2009.webp
IMG_2006.webp
 
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