Repair issues and fixes

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Hello all,

Just adding another datapoint to the mix. I changed my reduction gear fluid yesterday for the second time on my 2022 Kona SEL. The first change was at 1,075 miles in March and this time was at 4,534 miles (both times with MT-LV). So, roughly 3,500 miles between changes. This time I also added 3 neodymium magnets similar to navguy12. Overall, I was disappointed with the color, which was quite dark as shown in the photo on the right side. Here's to hoping it gradually gets better with time and the magnet trick...
 

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Well, the blackness itself is not the issue but rather that it represents the presence of crushed particles. You've removed the break-in loading at 1,075 miles, avoiding all the bearing wear that would have caused. Without any added magnetic filtering black oil would be the outcome I'd expect ongoing, but it wouldn't take much to cause that.

If you're still uneasy about using a non-OEM plug by the next change, perhaps put magnets on the fill plug as well. I did a little test using some very small magnets on the OEM plug and compared that to the strength of the Toyota plug with a small screwdriver. I would estimate that the magnet diameter you are using would match the Toyota plug in strength, so that should be quite effective.

One owner over at SpeakEVs has bravely put a similar small magnet on the inside of the OEM plug.
IMG_2016.webp

Meanwhile, I found a photo of the Leaf gearbox showing how the factory magnetic plugs stick out into the oil stream, for what that's worth one way or the other.
upload_2022-7-6_16-10-31.webp
 

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KiwiME said:
Well, the blackness itself is not the issue but rather that it represents the presence of crushed particles. You've removed the break-in loading at 1,075 miles, avoiding all the bearing wear that would have caused. Without any added magnetic filtering black oil would be the outcome I'd expect ongoing, but it wouldn't take much to cause that.

If you're still uneasy about using a non-OEM plug by the next change, perhaps put magnets on the fill plug as well. I did a little test using some very small magnets on the OEM plug and compared that to the strength of the Toyota plug with a small screwdriver. I would estimate that the magnet diameter you are using would match the Toyota plug in strength, so that should be quite effective.

One owner over at SpeakEVs has bravely put a similar small magnet on the inside of the OEM plug.
View attachment 17170

Meanwhile, I found a photo of the Leaf gearbox showing how the factory magnetic plugs stick out into the oil stream, for what that's worth one way or the other.
View attachment 17169
Click to expand...

Thanks Kiwi. My dad actually suggested using those same magnets on the fill plug, which he had, and I passed. Silly me. Next time I'll add them though. I'm still uneasy about having a magnet inside that could potentially come loose since I'm still under warranty.

How often are you planning to perform your fluid changes going forward? I'm planning to do my next at 10K miles (about 5K miles from now) and then every 5-10K miles after that unless you and others think we can go longer.
 
Chris53825 said:
Hello all,

Just adding another datapoint to the mix. I changed my reduction gear fluid yesterday for the second time on my 2022 Kona SEL. The first change was at 1,075 miles in March and this time was at 4,534 miles (both times with MT-LV). So, roughly 3,500 miles between changes. This time I also added 3 neodymium magnets similar to navguy12. Overall, I was disappointed with the color, which was quite dark as shown in the photo on the right side. Here's to hoping it gradually gets better with time and the magnet trick...
Click to expand...

Will be interesting to see if the blackness (particles) settle over the next week.
 
Chris53825 said:
... How often are you planning to perform your fluid changes going forward? I'm planning to do my next at 10K miles (about 5K miles from now) and then every 5-10K miles after that unless you and others think we can go longer.
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Well, you can decide based on the results of the next change. If the magnets work and there are no other underlying problems the oil should stay gold or dark green/brown and simply become more opaque as it ages. There should be no visible black or silver particles present. I'm hopeful that this would be the case for 30,000 kms (20,000 miles) or more as the Nissan Leaf manages to do easily with a similar design.
I'll be checking mine every six months just to keep an eye on the progress, noting that last time I put the same oil back in. But I'd be lucky to drive 5,000 km a year.
 
As per my previous posts in this thread, I flushed and changed the reduction gear fluid at 3700km. The fluid used was Penrite Pro Gear 70W-75. As planned, I changed the fluid again at 10,000km, so this fluid has been in use for 6300km. I sent a sample of the used fluid plus a sample of fresh fluid for comparison to be analysed and have just received the results, attached below.

I think they use boilerplate text for their comments as I've explained three times now that there is no auto transmission or engine heat in a Kona EV, both of which were mentioned in the comments. Nevertheless the aluminium content reported doesn't auger particularly well for my Kona, IMO.

KiwiME, what do you think?
 

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Wear metals are in parts per million. The main wear components are low, iron, copper/lead(components of brass), tin not present. The aluminium is in the case, not the driven components I believe.
The aluminium could be from abrasion as the oil was changed and refilled. Particularly from the fill plug.
In my inexpert opinion, there does not seem to be much to worry about. The Fe is particularly good.
 
Well, the magnets certainly work! I had put all the existing numbers into a Excel graph for "easy" viewing, anticipating these new numbers. But the data is so scattered that it's not really that clear. PPM at the Y-axis, kms change interval (not odometer) on the X-axis. The outlier Leaf at the right should be ignored.

Iron: low, as expected with magnets in place.
Aluminium: (see black arrow) at the top end of the vague trend resulting from the other four Kona UOAs, all of which were all the OEM fill. I added an arbitrarily-wide translucent linear trendline (based only on the four 1st change values) tied to zero for whatever that's worth.
Viscosity: that's a bit unexpected but I don't see that's it's a problem. The OEM oil is 5.4 when new and your last was 5.0, relatively much the same change.

Obviously the aluminium is the elephant in the room and I'm not sure what to prescribe the higher value to. But I don't think that it's high enough compared to the others to take any evasive action other than paying attention to any new noises.
UOA.webp
 
I'll add another datapoint. We bought one of the last remaining "new" 2021 Kona Ultimate's on the market. It was a demo so we got a screamingly good deal and will get the tax rebate they offer here as well, but that meant I wasn't able to change the oil until about 7000 km. It was quite dark and had a vague metallic sheen to it. I have yet to have the time to get it tested so I may wait until I change it again.
 
Rhynri said:
I'll add another datapoint. We bought one of the last remaining "new" 2021 Kona Ultimate's on the market. It was a demo so we got a screamingly good deal and will get the tax rebate they offer here as well, but that meant I wasn't able to change the oil until about 7000 km. It was quite dark and had a vague metallic sheen to it. I have yet to have the time to get it tested so I may wait until I change it again.
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In addition you also have the HUD which is handy when using on board the Nav system, not included on the facelift version:)
 
electriceddy said:
In addition you also have the HUD which is handy when using on board the Nav system, not included on the facelift version:)
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Yes! Even though I use ABRP on Carplay, I still have the HUD active for cruise setpoints and lane keeping hints. Does the facelift have actively cooled seats and heatpump as well? I couldn't nail down whether that was the case or not while researching them.

Edit to add thread-relevant info: our Kona is an only child so it should see decent mileage between now and October when I intend to change the oil again. When that happens, I'll make sure to have the oil test kit on standby and capture photos of the oil. We all know what it looks like first change at this point!
 
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Rhynri said:
Yes! Even though I use ABRP on Carplay, I still have the HUD active for cruise setpoints and lane keeping hints. Does the facelift have actively cooled seats and heatpump as well? I couldn't nail down whether that was the case or not while researching them.
<snip>
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My 2022 Ultimate facelift has both HUD and heat pump. It's a Canadian model built December 2021.
 
Rhynri said:
... October when I intend to change the oil again. When that happens, I'll make sure to have the oil test kit on standby and capture photos of the oil. We all know what it looks like first change at this point!
Click to expand...
I'd highly recommend some sort of supplemental magnet if you haven't already done that. Just attach a ø20mm x 5mm thk neodymium magnet on the outside of either or both plugs. You might be able to reach the filler from above.
 
KiwiME said:
I'd highly recommend some sort of supplemental magnet if you haven't already done that.
Click to expand...

Yesterday I had the dealer drain the oil out of the reduction gear - it had been in there for 37k Kms - and they gave me back 400ml of it. I gave them a 15 X 5 mm neodymium magnet to attach to the outside of the drain plug - those magnets are strong but I read that they permanently lose their potency if they get hot. I haven't got the car back yet because the "correct" oil is being sourced from Hyundai in Auckland. However I have an oil analysis kit from Terra Cat here in NZ and am all ready to send a sample away and will report the results here in due course.
After I took the sample from the glass bottle pictured, I dropped in another magnet to see if it would pick up anything. You can see the magnet on the bottom of the bottle. The oil isn't really that black or opaque, more a dark khaki colour, and not very viscous, but the analysis will tell if it is in range.

Konaoil.webp
 
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Do I understand correctly that the dealer drained the oil without having the correct new oil on hand? In any case it looks remarkably clean for the first change.

Experience and industrial knowledge has indicated that iron particles lose their ferromagnetic attraction after being crushed so I wouldn't be surprised if little is picked up by the magnet.
Don't worry about the magnet attached to the drain plug losing magnetism due to heat as it's really only a question when used on an engine sump at over 100°C.
 
KiwiME said:
Do I understand correctly that the dealer drained the oil without having the correct new oil on hand?
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The oil change was requested last Thursday and scheduled for this Wednesday. On the day it was found that the incorrect oil had arrived. I have the car back now along with the surplus oil that Hyundai NZ supplied.I only needed just over half of the two litres I bought. That will be used for the next change. Here is a picture of its container. On the back it say it comes from Caltex in Incheon Korea.

KonaOilbottle.webp
 
John Lumsden said:
The oil change was requested last Thursday and scheduled for this Wednesday. On the day it was found that the incorrect oil had arrived. I have the car back now along with the surplus oil that Hyundai NZ supplied.I only needed just over half of the two litres I bought. That will be used for the next change. Here is a picture of its container. On the back it say it comes from Caltex in Incheon Korea.

View attachment 17600
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Wakefield Canada just announced today availability of Castrol's new EV line of EV fluids, which should bring some competition to the market.
Castrol_EV.jpg

The Castrol website shows more details on the low conductivity battery coolant also several EV transmission fluids depending on the type of drivetrain. Regarding Kona EV, the dry type would probably be applicable as the motor is cooled separate from the gearbox using thermal coolant rather than transmission fluid. Have yet to find out price as it was just announced as being available. Look forward to more information on these fluids.
 
electriceddy said:
Wakefield Canada just announced today availability of Castrol's new EV line of EV fluids, which should bring some competition to the market.

The Castrol website shows more details on the low conductivity battery coolant also several EV transmission fluids depending on the type of drivetrain. Regarding Kona EV, the dry type would probably be applicable as the motor is cooled separate from the gearbox using thermal coolant rather than transmission fluid. Have yet to find out price as it was just announced as being available. Look forward to more information on these fluids.
Click to expand...

BP are putting millions into their Castrol fluids branch in England to develop EV coolants which will facilitate much faster charging. While still only a tiny fraction of their earnings it represents an awareness of the direction in which energy use is going.
 
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