Questioning about Hybrid, especially PHEV
Fastnf
Well-Known Member
I was referring to bed Load which 1750 lbs. Your are correct the towing capacity is much higher 10k lbs. I used to tow the race car in a toy hauler. I really went through the gas. I would get about 8 mpg. My current race car weighs 1846lbs (I have a set of scales for use in corner balancing cars). Combined with a 600 lb Demco car dolly and I can get it to the track. There two tracks within 85 miles. Buttonwillow at 85 miles and Willowsprings at 25 miles.
My son has a 400 lb aluminum utility trailer. Most of the things I use the truck for aren't that heavy. Usually it longer pieces of lumber or 4x8 sheets of plywood, OSB, or drywall. And that is usually 3 or 4 times a year.
Because of the limit use a trailer would work for me. I would rather not be paying for insurance, smog check gasoline and the having to change the oil every year for a truck that I drive maybe 500 miles a year. If I was using it more it might be worth worth it but if I can do with out it I will.
He said the Volvo had a 3K towing capacity. The towing capacity of the Mach E was unknown. He did not say he could load 3K in the bed. He said 3K was more than he could load in the bed. We now know he can load 1700 in the bed, which I find embarrassing for a 3/4 ton, but it is a Ford.
I was referring to the bed load, not towing capacity. My 1999 GMC 2500 has more than 3000# of payload capacity. I use it in a similar fashion as you, maybe 2000 miles a year. Lumber, gravel, mulch, a ditch witch or small excavator on a trailer from a rental yard. I’m the original owner, it was paid for on day one, has less than 70K miles and I’ll probably never sell it. It’s a couple hundred bucks to insure, $65 to register and if I don’t do an annual oil change myself, maybe another $60.
It would make no financial sense to me to buy an expensive new EV to do try to do what it does. And I’d never get the towing capacity.
If you can swing a race car and a new EV, you should be able to cover the nut on the truck.
Fastnf
Well-Known Member
Things are different in California than Oregon. If my registration were only $60 that would be nice but it is closer to$350 here, throw in a $90 smog check. $60 for oil $300 for insurance and $200 gas and I am paying $1000 dollar a year for truck I only paid $2500 for in the first place. The race car I bought from a guy who stripped it down to the chassis then decided he didn't want it and sold it to me at tencens on the dollar. I sold what I didn't need at a profit and then built it back to my specs. I don't really need for the truck any more at least not that I can't cover with a trailer. Trailer registration is $5 every 2 years and no insurance. I am going to get the Volvo anyway. I am also trying to down size I was at 7 cars now I am down to four, three if you don't count the truck.
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MrFixit
Well-Known Member
The towing capacity of the "XC40 Recharge" does not seem to be consistently reported.
There are quite a few reports that show 1500 kg (3300#), but the most authoritative place that I found (the Volvo site itself) is currently showing 2000 lb.
https://www.volvocars.com/us/cars/xc40-pure-electric?redirect=true
You have to scroll down and click on "How much can I tow with the pure electric XC40 Recharge?"
There are quite a few reports that show 1500 kg (3300#), but the most authoritative place that I found (the Volvo site itself) is currently showing 2000 lb.
https://www.volvocars.com/us/cars/xc40-pure-electric?redirect=true
You have to scroll down and click on "How much can I tow with the pure electric XC40 Recharge?"
There have been several articles that cover towing travel trailers or boats with a Model X. Trailer weights have ranged from 1200lbs to just under the maximum rating of 5000lbs, for a properly optioned X.
Range was reduced by 45-60%. In some cases the driver slowed to speeds of 50-60mph in order to reach a charging station with the remaining capacity. Power consumption was between 600-1200 watt hours per mile.
A car with a ~200 mile range may be capable of traveling only 80 miles with a trailer in tow, on a full charge, under ideal conditions. Fast charging to 80% will yield less range between charges. Throw in cold temperatures, a headwind or a desire to drive at higher speeds and range is likely to decrease even more.
Range was reduced by 45-60%. In some cases the driver slowed to speeds of 50-60mph in order to reach a charging station with the remaining capacity. Power consumption was between 600-1200 watt hours per mile.
A car with a ~200 mile range may be capable of traveling only 80 miles with a trailer in tow, on a full charge, under ideal conditions. Fast charging to 80% will yield less range between charges. Throw in cold temperatures, a headwind or a desire to drive at higher speeds and range is likely to decrease even more.
In general, people rarely get into accidents with their cars. Over 99% of all trips made are done without consequence, accident-free. So why buy auto insurance? Well, you want it for those rare times when you make a mistake and get into an accident. I feel the same is true for the ICE in the Clarity. You may drive it as electric only for more than 95% of the time. However, it’s nice to know the ICE is there when your battery unexpectedly runs low. You will not be stranded.I love the concept of PHEV. You can drive long-range with battery, and have gas a backup. That is the main reason why I bought the Clarity. But after I have driven Clarity for 2 weeks, I have never used a single drop of gas/oil. So I ask myself if I drive battery for 95% of the time, why I do I have to carry the ICE Engine me every time I drive. It's heavy and takes space. The fact that I might need ICE (gas engine) 5% of the time only, but it penalizes me to carry with me 95% when I don't use it, it gives me a second thought, it is worth it?
It makes sense when you do 50/50, but if you do over 90% of driving battery, you might as well getting all EV.
Your thoughts?
jdonalds
Well-Known Member
Agreed. And when we take long trips of 550 miles once each year we have 5-10 minute gas stops. Even if you have a fast charging Model 3 you may or may not find a fast charger in the right place on your route, and if you find one it may be occupied. For us a PHEV like our Clarity is the perfect match.
Also, as someone who has had this wonderful car for 3 years I can assure you there will be times when you forget to plug in at home and you need the gas to drive around town.
Phil_Meyers
Active Member
Phil_Meyers
Active Member
Also it's extremely nice to know I can go anywhere without worrying about charging. We were in the mountains last week. At lunch we stopped at a outdoor restaurant, they had chargers in the parking lot so I pulled in thinking why not charge up. When I got out to plug it in, I realized they weren't working...but it wasn't an issue at all. We eat then left...no charge but not an issue.
coutinpe
Active Member
Or you may find yourself arriving home with an almost depleted battery to find out you have to scramble to go somewhere else urgently with no time to charge. That was the exact situation I had and described at the beginning of this discussion and the OP and some other EV purists said it was an invalid argument so I just quit arguing...
The point was that scenario pretty much assumes a BEV with the same limited range as your PHEV. A 250, 300 or 400+ mile EV is very unlikely to run into that situation. Plus the newer BEVs will gain the <50 mile total range of the Clarity PHEV in about 5 minutes at a DCFC station.
Phil_Meyers
Active Member
That's also happened at work. My work is over 50 miles away, if I drive a bev I'd be screwed. There's been times when I had to turn around and leave. We also live in the mountains so range takes a hit with elevation.
I don't argue with the purist anymore after they tried to convince me it takes twenty minutes to fill a tank and I supposedly spill gas, smell it and get gas all over myself. Of course that's never happened and takes five minutes so I ignore any claims.
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And, we can’t contest that because we all know that no BEV owner ever arrives at a charging destination with less than 50 miles of range remaining, they all have a DCFC at home and the power never goes out.
Checkmate.
If your clarity is out of charge, you've used less than 50 miles. A BEV could still have 350+ miles of range left at that point.
A long range BEV will not be emptied every day and has plenty of buffer for those unexpected tasks and detours. If you truly drive 300-400 miles a day on a regular basis and find yourself then needing to make an emergency trip, then gas or diesel is certainly a better choice.
Can you grasp the concept that a BEV owner may not fully charge the battery after every 50 mile trip? Isn’t it less than ideal to keep the battery fully charged?Might they not drive all week and get home Friday night with a small amount of range remaining?
I certainly don’t top off my gas/diesel vehicles every 50 miles. I mentioned previously that a number of coworkers who drive BEV’s take advantage of free charging at work. They charge Friday, drive all weekend and arrive on Monday as close to empty as possible. Then they charge on Monday and drive all week on the free juice which typically leads to getting to work on Friday with very little remaining range.
I agree that an unforeseen emergency is unlikely. I do know a handful of BEV owners who arrive at a charging destination twice a week with nearly depleted batteries. So that part is likely, in my experience. The max charging rate at work is ~40miles per hour, if the car can accept that rate. Should an emergency arise, the may need to borrow my PHEV.
Since I've been driving a BEV for 7 years, I can assure you that charging after every 50 mile trip is common practice. It's not like topping off your gas car after 50 miles, you just plug in when you get home - it only takes a few seconds.
Even if you forget after a 50 mile day or two, todays BEVs will have more range left that you start with in your PHEV with a full charge.
Looking at EVs thru the <50 miles range lens gives a distorted perspective. There is a very good reason Mercedes pulled the smart out of the US market. Although Kandi seems to think is they sell it cheap enough people will be interested.
If your Clarity had 350 miles of EV range, how often would you use gas?
Yes, a PHEV is a better fit for many. But the statements often made against BEVs often make no sense at all. I don't stop at a gas station top off my gas car every 50 miles, so therefore a BEV driver won't do it at home?