Level 2 Charging for under $20

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I have been using the cheap L1/L2 chargers from Ebay ($100-$120), and I have had a couple issues.

I had trouble with one plugged into a standard 120V outlet. The plug did not feel loose in the receptacle, but there may have been some corrosion on the old receptacle. The plug overheated (on 120V) and melted the outlet cover a little...
The unit draws 16 amps through the 120V plug, so it is pushing the limit.

The units are stamped for 120v/220/V, but had 120V plugs, so I made an adapter to go to the 220V extension cord. The end of the 220V cord and my adapter were laying on the stones next to my driveway. My adapter plug was not weather proof. It got wet, shorted out, and burned the end off my 220V extension cord. I was 'lucky' the burning electrical was not near flammable materials. I had left the unit plugged in, and it burned off while it was not being used.

I have taken the plugs off both units, and hard-wired them to 220V. Both in operation for several months, with no further problems.
 
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KentuckyKen said:
Wouldn’t it make more sense from a safety and Code standpoint to make the extension cord have identical male and female 240 V ends so no one could mistakenly plug in a 120V plug and play human bug zapper?
Then you use an adapter that stays plugged into the end of your charger (not the extension cord) that posts seem to to indicate can run OK on 240 V. Also going this route let’s you buy a generator cord instead of having to make your own. I’m not gonna do any of this ans not advocating this use of the OEM EVSE, but you and everyone else are of course free to make you’re own choice.

Also, I think (not an EE) that the ampacity or wire gauge is driven by the size of the breaker/circuit and not the anticipated load. So then a 40 Amp circuit would need 8 gauge wire not 10 gauge. What size is the breaker in this circuit?
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JCA said:
If this is really a generator inlet, it's not going to work -- first of all, the direction is wrong (the inlet should have male prongs that you plug the female end of a cord into), and there's a transfer switch or interlock that will prevent the inlet from being energized from the street power.
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Good points all, and worth considering.

The outlet contains the 240v wiring intended for my hangar door: 2 hots and a ground, no neutral. It’s fed by a 2-gang 30A breaker. As such, and considering the apparent gauge of the OEM charger cord, I thought 10Ga would be more than adequate.

I went with the generator connector so if the power was out, I could unplug the hangar door and plug it into an adequately rated generator. This was in lieu of a transfer switch, with no way the generator could energize the outlet.

My setup:

(Flickr is down for maintenance right now. The image I wanted to post is available in this thread: http://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/my-progress-towards-level-2-charging.5596/ )

The idea would be to unplug the hangar door and plug in my adapter cable when needed for faster charges to the Clarity.
 
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I ordered the adapter from Amazon to plug into my 240v outlet.

Have been charging for the last week without issue... until today.

The adapter plug MELTED.

No issues with EVSE or wiring or car. Just the cheap adapter.

I will be making my own adapter/2-foot extension cable with appropriate (Lowe's) components in the near future.
20190523_071029.webp
20190523_071058.webp


Sent from my SM-N960U using Inside EVs mobile app
 
ClarityBill said:
The unit draws 16 amps through the 120V plug, so it is pushing the limit.
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that's not "pushing the limit", that's going way beyond it.

the car is not supposed to draw more than 12A on a 15A 120V circuit (80% of the circuit capacity). that's what the honda adapter is doing.

if it's drawing 16A that is well beyond what it should.
 
victor_2019 said:
that's not "pushing the limit", that's going way beyond it.

the car is not supposed to draw more than 12A on a 15A 120V circuit (80% of the circuit capacity). that's what the honda adapter is doing.

if it's drawing 16A that is well beyond what it should.
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But I have 20 amp breakers and wiring, so 16A on 20A is like 12A on 15A: 16A is what the 'better' L1 chargers do.
 
If you have a 20A circuit then why do you say 16A is pushing the limit? That's exactly what it should draw on a 20A circuit.

Your receptacle would have melted at 12A as well if the contacts were corroded.

Most people don't have dedicated 20 amp circuits outdoors so I don't think the charger should assume 20A is available. United it's clearly marked on it/at time of sale that it requires a 20A circuit.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Good points all, and worth considering.

The outlet contains the 240v wiring intended for my hangar door: 2 hots and a ground, no neutral. It’s fed by a 2-gang 30A breaker. As such, and considering the apparent gauge of the OEM charger cord, I thought 10Ga would be more than adequate.

I went with the generator connector so if the power was out, I could unplug the hangar door and plug it into an adequately rated generator. This was in lieu of a transfer switch, with no way the generator could energize the outlet.

My setup:

(Flickr is down for maintenance right now. The image I wanted to post is available in this thread: http://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/my-progress-towards-level-2-charging.5596/ )

The idea would be to unplug the hangar door and plug in my adapter cable when needed for faster charges to the Clarity.
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@Fast Eddie B, the 8 gauge wire is fine for a 30 Amp circuit of normal or short length. So that’s not a problem
However, I do see 2 possible problems in trying to lug a generator directly into the door opener outlet.

1. There is no neutral at the outlet. I have no idea about whether this is up to code in your area or if that is advisable or possible to use with a 240 V generator with a 4 prong receptacle. As a non EE or licensed electrician, that’s above my pay grade. May I suggest you get a consultation on that first.

2. To make an extension cord from the generator outlet to your opener outlet will require both ends to be male which is commonly called a “suicide rig” for the obvious reason that you have the possibility of having the prongs hot if you plug it into a running generator first. Male and female orientation is always such that it protects from inadvertently coming into contact with a live circuit.

3. Running power from a generator directly to a circuit without some kind of transfer switch runs the possibility of back feeding the utility supply lines and endangering utility workers which is why all codes that I know of require some kind of foolproof transfer/disconnect switch.

4. The Honda OEM EVSE is wired for a hot (one leg of a normal 240 V residential feed), a neutral (which you don’t have there), and a ground. Again, I have no idea if that’s up to NEC and local codes to use it on your receptacle which has no neutral. Codes can be very particular about such things even when the application will work just fine.

Just want you to be safe so you can keep living my dream of having an aircraft and an EV in my garage. (My dream is to build a gyrocopter) And we want you to be posting here for a long time. I think it advisable to ask an electrician or local electrical inspector about this before proceeding.
 
Tomrl said:
cost more than 20 bucks, but it's pretty nice.

View attachment 4744

Just installed today. I was very impressed w/ the entire packaging and installation set up, classy and complete. They even provide the correct bit and nut driver. Top notch product, not so impressed w/ the app. so far, probably just continue to use HondaLink.
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I've been using the chargepoint 32A since about Dec, 2017. It is a joy to use, wonderful unit. Unfortunately, I had two failures 6 months apart (each). Chargepoint was very responsive and friendly, free replacement by FedEx, including free shipping both ways (you return the failed unit). I do worry a bit about what happens at the end of warranty after three years (from the original purchase date). I am hoping whatever the failure modes were, each replacement is a little more robust. I do like the unit a lot, including the WIFI reporting.

After the second failure, I added a 50A wall jack and went to the plug in model, at least now it's a bit easier to take it off the wall in the hopefully unlikely event that I get another failure. I use several whole home surge protectors throughout my distributed AC system, so I doubt the problem was a surge transient.

I was going to sell my old 16A L2 Clipper Creek, but so glad I kept it, as a stand in, and now it's on the outside of the home where the chargepoint cord does not reach, so I can charge in the driveway too, plus I have a "hot spare".
 
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KentuckyKen said:
LOL
The picture is from the installer’s drone about 6 pm on the day they finished. The weather is updated each time I log on the monitoring portal. The bluegrass must be like the Great Smokies not being actual smoke since all the grass I’ve seen here (even on horse farms) is green. I’m an old Georgia boy transplanted to KY (How ‘bout dem dawgs?!) and I married a little red haired girl from eastern TN (Elizabethton).

For being such a good sport, here is some more solar eye candy for you from last month. (The EEs out there will notice I get about 2 hours of clipping on a sunny summer day when production goes over 8 kW). The tall red peak is o\n charging the Clarity and the blue and red peaks are shower and dishwasher hot water use. I expect a lot more red when I have to turn on the ac so it’s good to over produce to have some electrons in the bank for the hot summer months. With net metering, I'm using the utility as a battery. I sized the system to zero out my electric bill but will have to wait for the first calendar year to see how close real life is to software predictions.
View attachment 4713 View attachment 4714
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I know the clipping can be frustrating, but it may not be as bad as it seems. These systems are often sized with enough PV panels to give more optimal lower light performance, such as in the morning and evening. Even though you are losing a bit of possible energy generation (by clipping) at peak sun, peak season, you may be doing better overall mornings, evenings, and fall through spring (because the inverter can come on sooner and go off later for more overall conversion time).
 
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victor_2019 said:
If you have a 20A circuit then why do you say 16A is pushing the limit? That's exactly what it should draw on a 20A circuit.
Most people don't have dedicated 20 amp circuits outdoors so I don't think the charger should assume 20A is available. United it's clearly marked on it/at time of sale that it requires a 20A circuit.
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It was a cheap Chinese unit that had a label listing a voltage no longer used in the US. Unlikely that it would have warning labels of any sort.
 
David in TN said:
I ordered the adapter from Amazon to plug into my 240v outlet.

Have been charging for the last week without issue... until today.

The adapter plug MELTED.

No issues with EVSE or wiring or car. Just the cheap adapter.

I will be making my own adapter/2-foot extension cable with appropriate (Lowe's) components in the near future.View attachment 4843View attachment 4844

Sent from my SM-N960U using Inside EVs mobile app
Click to expand...

Thanks for updating us with that melt-down failure. That's the same adapter I purchased. I've used it 3 times, and it does get slightly warm. I don't leave it plugged into power unless I'm actually using it.
 
DucRider said:
It was a cheap Chinese unit that had a label listing a voltage no longer used in the US. Unlikely that it would have warning labels of any sort.
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Oops, I guess I could have confirmed what the label said... I assume it was actually labelled with a currently used voltage. I did not check that detail before posting. I believe you are pointing out a mistake by me, and not the Chinese.

My comment did not rely on the exact voltage of the label or outlet. (What voltage is no longer used in the US?)
 
KentuckyKen said:
... Also, I think (not an EE) that the ampacity or wire gauge is driven by the size of the breaker/circuit and not the anticipated load. So then a 40 Amp circuit would need 8 gauge wire not 10 gauge. What size is the breaker in this circuit?
Click to expand...

That rule (wire sized by circuit breaker) is for wiring in the wall or conduit up to a socket or a hardwired connection. Otherwise, for example, it would be prohibited to plug a small appliance or small lamp cord into a 15A or 20A outlet. In many cases, there is some protection device in the thing being plugged in (e.g. a fuse).

I am certainly not arguing for any of these adapters or budget EVSE stuff that melts. If you can afford it, IMHO do the job right with high quality properly rated and certified components and a quality certified EVSE (hardwired or with plug).

Nor do I argue against all these adapters and conversions, for the many using that approach, a personal choice. Oddly, I have not seen a single story about an electrocution or explosion (e.g. a child, spouse, visitor plugging a 120V device into a 120V socket modded to 240V; seems like a really bad idea, but lots of folks are doing it with "success"), nor a single home fire from an EVSE "adaptation". It may have happened and folks just don't talk about it. Not a risk I would be willing take, but like I say, personal choice. Penny wise and pound foolish IMHO, but clearly others see it differently (plus, I'm old) :)
 
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sniwallof said:
That rule (wire sized by circuit breaker) is for wiring in the wall or conduit up to a socket or a hardwired connection. Otherwise, for example, it would be prohibited to plug a small appliance or small lamp cord into a 15A or 20A outlet. In many cases, there is some protection device in the thing being plugged in (e.g. a fuse).
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You are quite correct. I just wasn’t clear. That’s certainly true for the extension cord used for the EVSE which draws power from the circuit. For the extension cord drawing power from the generator to supply power for the receptacle, I think you need to size it for the generator output and not what’s on the circuit. In the latter case the power flow is reversed.
However, be advised that I am NOT a licensed electrician and am using just some country boy smarts here.
 
David in TN said:
Original Honda unit. 12 amp.

This idea works fine (using Honda EVSE with 240-volt,) but this adapter, obviously, isn't.

Plan "B" is next. :)
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I've connected my Honda EVSE to a watts meter while on 120v and it only draws a bit over 10 amps. I don't have a way to measure the power draw while on 240v, but I assume it is still drawing ~ 10 amps.

I haven't been charging as much at home since I'm now able to charge at work: https://photos.app.goo.gl/21GWDKBV2122ei8c9

It's only 14 amps at 240v, but I can recharge to full if I need to during a 9 hour workday. https://photos.app.goo.gl/yUbGWNaGYket9Xmy5
 
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