megreyhair
Active Member
My AC is still working on a '18 (knock knock knock knock on wood).
Clarity A/C problem (and warranty extension on pg 10)
- Thread starter Benoit Paquette
- Start date
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Hopefully you still have enough refrigerant in the system for them to find the leak. That's something I learned on my repair. Since I had gotten down to 3.8 psi at 60 something, there was not enough. I was quoted something like $175 for diagnostic and $325 to charge the system. Fortunately charging it showed the leak right away and it was all covered under the extended warranty.
If you live in a state that doesn't have a lot of road corrosion, you might never have an issue. I live in Michigan and corrosion is an issue.
megreyhair
Active Member
I live in NJ so tons of salt. Maybe not as much as Michigan but still plenty. But in the last few years, my area start using brine to pre-treat the roads so less rock salt were applied during storms.
Although the AC is working on our 2018 Clarity Touring (October 2018 build), I noticed oil on the bottom of the plastic underbody beneath the condenser this past weekend. There were two small drips on the garage floor. The bottom of the condenser had oily dirt on the fins, too. We took the Clarity to the dealer this morning and they diagnosed (at no cost) a failed condenser. The condenser needs to be ordered and will be replaced under the warranty.
I am surprised at the amount of oil that leaked out while there was still enough refrigerant to allow the AC to work. The leak looks to be at the bottom of the condenser and that probably makes for a higher oil to refrigerant ratio for the leak. The static AC pressure was at 85 psi when I checked yesterday and this confirms that there was still liquid refrigerant left.
LeoP
I am surprised at the amount of oil that leaked out while there was still enough refrigerant to allow the AC to work. The leak looks to be at the bottom of the condenser and that probably makes for a higher oil to refrigerant ratio for the leak. The static AC pressure was at 85 psi when I checked yesterday and this confirms that there was still liquid refrigerant left.
LeoP
megreyhair
Active Member
Where exactly was the drip? Was it near the driver side or passenger side?
Do we know that “road corrosion” is the culprit? Or for that matter, the use of de-icing products that have corrosive properties?
What would make the Honda condenser more susceptible to these corrosive substances than condensers used by other manufacturers? Why would Honda provide an extended warranty for the failure of a component that was exposed to something that is outside of their control? Do we have documented failures on vehicles that have never been exposed to corrosive chemicals? How about repeat failures on those vehicles?
Honda apparently acknowledged that some condensers fail prematurely due to a manufacturing defect. Unfortunately, it seems that some replacement units are failing prematurely as well.
Dan Albrich
Well-Known Member
This may add some useful detail. My car's AC was ALWAYS anemic, and I mean from day one I couldn't get my AC to work well. Western Oregon isn't particularly hot so put up with it until it quit entirely. In my case, I'm 100% convinced this was a manufacturing defect, or possibly design flaw.
After the dealer replaced the condenser my car's AC works properly -- for the first time ever. I can freeze myself out of the car now if I like. But that was never the case prior.
Other: I live in Eugene Oregon. We're not prone to roads with rocks, or rock trucks. They exist but no where near as much as I see in the rural western states. I'm positive my condenser was never hit with a rock. I also purchased a mesh guard from someone on these forums to protect early on...
After the dealer replaced the condenser my car's AC works properly -- for the first time ever. I can freeze myself out of the car now if I like. But that was never the case prior.
Other: I live in Eugene Oregon. We're not prone to roads with rocks, or rock trucks. They exist but no where near as much as I see in the rural western states. I'm positive my condenser was never hit with a rock. I also purchased a mesh guard from someone on these forums to protect early on...
I believe you're referring to the ClarityScreen from Voltstuff.
Dan Albrich
Well-Known Member
Yes, thank you Insightman for linking the ClarityScreen in your post. I do wish to credit them, and love to see more business go their way. The screen fits nicely and works well. If one doesn't look too closely, one might think the car came that way (and maybe should of).
One drip was in the center and one on the driver's side. However, the oil all came from the center of the underbody extension of the front bumper (just behind the air dam lip) as the underbody extension is lowest in the center. The oil just blows back from that point spreading out to the sides.
The location of the drips and oil streak start really mean very little. My condenser looks to be leaking from both sides where the lower tubes go into the side ends. All the visible cross tubes are oily with the ends collecting the most dirt. The incoming air blows the oil all around.
By the way, I think it is interesting that there are after market (not Honda oem) AC condensers available for the Clarity now.
The location of the drips and oil streak start really mean very little. My condenser looks to be leaking from both sides where the lower tubes go into the side ends. All the visible cross tubes are oily with the ends collecting the most dirt. The incoming air blows the oil all around.
By the way, I think it is interesting that there are after market (not Honda oem) AC condensers available for the Clarity now.
Perhaps there were so many defective condensers that Honda decided to recoup some of their warranty expenses by selling them to a remanufacturing company who's now reselling them as aftermarket parts.
Would Honda then have to buy them back from the “remanufacturing” company in order to supply them to dealers for warranty claims? And, who would pay for a part that is covered under warranty? Both companies would stand to lose their shorts on that deal.
Now, if they were government organizations they would simply charge the taxpayers for their stupidity.
I assume Honda continues making faulty new condensers rather than buying repaired units to install under warranty.
First, I very much doubt that any of the failed Clarity AC condensers get rebuilt or remanufactured. It is cheaper to make new aluminum heat exchangers than to try to rebraze the many aluminum to aluminum connections or to fill the pin holes in the tubes themselves (the pictures of failed condensers show leaks in the tubes and not just at the joints). However, it could be that some (or all) after market condensers are made by the same company (or companies) that make the oem condensers for Honda.
Second, the failure of the replacement condensers could be the result of the replacement condenser being the same as the old condenser (A01 part number suffix). The later condensers (A02) could fail due to errors by the technician when the replacement is done. The POE oils used are very hygroscopic. At the temperaures of some parts of the AC system (after refrigerant compression), water saturated POE oil forms acids. Honda requires that a new can of POE oil be used during the replacement (a new can is in the warranty kit). The tech could be using a previously opened can. If water has been absorbed by the oil in the previously opened can, even the new drier (in the new condenser) may not be able to get out all the water. Also, the tech may not vaccuum the system for a long enough time or to low enough vaccuum to draw out all the water. This is especially so if the AC system is left open to the atmosphere for any length of time more than an hour or two as the POE oil in the system absorbs water quickly. Any acid formed would cause corrosion in the new condenser.
Just my two cents, LeoP
Second, the failure of the replacement condensers could be the result of the replacement condenser being the same as the old condenser (A01 part number suffix). The later condensers (A02) could fail due to errors by the technician when the replacement is done. The POE oils used are very hygroscopic. At the temperaures of some parts of the AC system (after refrigerant compression), water saturated POE oil forms acids. Honda requires that a new can of POE oil be used during the replacement (a new can is in the warranty kit). The tech could be using a previously opened can. If water has been absorbed by the oil in the previously opened can, even the new drier (in the new condenser) may not be able to get out all the water. Also, the tech may not vaccuum the system for a long enough time or to low enough vaccuum to draw out all the water. This is especially so if the AC system is left open to the atmosphere for any length of time more than an hour or two as the POE oil in the system absorbs water quickly. Any acid formed would cause corrosion in the new condenser.
Just my two cents, LeoP
To reply to my own post with a follow up: Was diagnosed as not being the condenser this time – a failed O-ring. I pressed them on whether this was a connection that might’ve been improperly made during the prior to condenser repairs, and they said no, unrelated. They did allow that the O-ring might’ve been leaking all along, separate from the failed condensers, but they assured me the condensers were no good in the past. Can’t verify this, but I’ve had pretty good experience with them.
$400 to repair the O-ring, $580 to evacuate and recharge the system. Not under warranty this time.
Hopefully I’m done for now – separate from the cost (first 2 under warranty), annoying to have made three trips/spent 3 days in the past year at the repair shop, not to mention a few sweltering summer trips.
Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
Sorry, how did you see refrigerant pressure?
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
Information here:
https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...port-adapter-to-check-air-conditioning.10941/
And more detail about setting up to read OBD2 information here:
https://github.com/clarity-phev/Battery-Capacity-Read