High-Pitched Motor Noise

Discussion in 'Hyundai Kona Electric' started by SeanH, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. EnerG

    EnerG Active Member

    I can't hear anything out of the norm with your sound byte. Have a look and listen to SeanH's video linked to in post number 13 of this thread. The sound in that video is exactly the same as what I am experiencing.

    I have a feeling it is a poorly assembled (loose) winding in the motor.
     
  2. KiwiME

    KiwiME Active Member

    Yeah, I've listened to that a few times. Outside of the VESS I could not guess what that whistling noise is. 9700 and 17,700 Hz seem to be the relevant peaks, as I know the VESS rolls off after 6 or 7 kHz. Noting that it's higher on acceleration it's very likely current-related. I very much doubt this is the result of a "loose winding" for several reasons but it's likely related to semiconductor switching frequency(ies) in some way, as harmonics of course since the fundamentals are likely higher. I'm certain I could not personally hear the noises if they were present on my car. When I get an opportunity I'll get one of my younger relatives to have a listen.

    upload_2019-6-23_8-56-42.png
     
  3. wizziwig

    wizziwig Member

    Some advice when recording weird car sounds. I recorded my Niro EV noise issues inside a large underground parking structure when it was mostly empty. Not only did it remove any external sounds, the enclosed walls amplified the sound so it was easier to pickup with my smartphone mic.
     
  4. XtsKonaTrooper

    XtsKonaTrooper Active Member

    My dobes certainly heard something.
    As for me, all i heard was a VESS noise.
    Aside from all that, usually when im driving, i only hear Black Sabbath, ACDC, etc.
     
    Kamloops_KoNa and BC-Doc like this.
  5. victor_2019

    victor_2019 Active Member

    I can hear the same noise on my kona at 800 km on the odometer.

    I don't know if this was audible before since it's the first time today that i drive with windows open in town.

    I can't hear it with windows closed or if I'm not driving next to a wall or parked cars.

    Yes, it's a bit annoying but not a reason not to buy the car. And if all new cars have this noise, i doubt it's a defect...

    I'm an electrical engineer so I'm used to all sorts of weird noises coming out of motors driven by VFDs. It's probably just harmonics.

    I'm also going slightly deaf and nearing 40 but i can definitely hear the noise. It's not just young people.
     
  6. KiwiME

    KiwiME Active Member

    OK, I'm having too much fun with this but it's a rainy Sunday. Here's the SeanH audio as an MP3 with the VESS filtered out. Afflicted owners, is this what you're hearing?
    Just to add that looking at Siemens EV motor controllers, the working frequency quoted is 2-12 kHz, much lower than I thought.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  7. ajstjacques

    ajstjacques New Member

    Yup, exactly this.
     
    KiwiME likes this.
  8. EnerG

    EnerG Active Member

    Great job filtering that out. It sure is a nasty sound without the VESS. Makes me wonder if the VESS sound was chosen to cover this up. The bad news is, that is what I am hearing.
     
    electriceddy likes this.
  9. electriceddy

    electriceddy Well-Known Member

    Great, so now we have to mute VESS as well as introduce some form of active noise reduction for that band of fr to have a quiet ride :rolleyes:
    Why didn't Hyundai do this already?
    Wonder what the exact fr is to cancel?
     
  10. Brennan Raposo

    Brennan Raposo Well-Known Member Subscriber

    There has only been one person to successfully capture the noise. The mp3 file above is not at all the sound. It is VERY noticeable and sounds wrong and abnormal. There is absolutely no confusing it with any “normal” electric car sound. Any person I have in the car with me notices it within about 30 seconds, if we’re driving with the windows down.

    It’s so frustrating trying to explain something that is nearly impossible to capture on audio recording. I can’t recall the users name, but he had his car lifted on a jack and had a camera by the motor under the car - you could hear it perfectly. Literally everyone else seems to be describing the normal VESS (100% not the sound) or the cool space ship noise when quickly accelerating (again, 100% not the sound) The only way I’ve been able to explain this to anyone and seen are sort of comprehension on their faces is by telling them it sounds like the high-pitched noise you hear when you have old rusty brakes and are in desperate need of a brake job.

    I really, really hope for the sake of my sanity that someone figures it out or Hyundai issues some sort of recall. I have not heard it on any Ioniq’s or Soul EV’s which are essentially the same car.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    BlueSal likes this.
  11. Brennan Raposo

    Brennan Raposo Well-Known Member Subscriber

    If you have a contact for Hyundai, could you pass it on. I’ve been trying, unsuccessfully to find a phone number or email address.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. CJC

    CJC Well-Known Member

    https://www.hyundaicanada.com/en/about/helpcentre
     
  13. victor_2019

    victor_2019 Active Member

    Hey, it could always be worse...

     
    KiwiME likes this.
  14. KiwiME

    KiwiME Active Member

    I had another poke around the audio from the SeanH video and there are four distinct regions of noise:
    A) below 200 Hz, presumably the rumble of the mechanicals
    B) the VESS which ranges from 200 to 7,000 Hz which has an additional unidentified component perhaps related to C and D
    C) lower 'switching' (for lack of a better term) noise centered around 9,700 Hz
    D) higher frequency 'switching' noise centered around 17.6 kHz, noting that the mic appears to roll off after 18.5 kHz

    The mp3 I provided earlier is of C and D, noting that I can only hear D separately if I use high-spec earphones and turn up the volume.
    Looking at B again, check out the MP3 below with a high-pass filter above 2,400 Hz instead of 7,000. That leaves much of the unidentified component and higher 'switching' frequencies with the VESS less intrusive.
     

    Attached Files:

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  15. SeanH

    SeanH New Member

    This is so cool. I identified 3 categories at the time -- I probably grouped C and D.
    I'm sorry I haven't gotten it back up on the lift and done the recording with something better than an iPhone. It is on my to-do, but I have to rebuild my favors with the techs at work ;-)
    For that test I will also try to unplug the VESS.
    The general consensus among my EE buddies is that it is switching noise either in the inverter or in the motor itself. The real question is whether it is in 100% of Konas. I would think that it would've been noticed in the many reviews that existed for a year before I bought mine (in the US), but none mention it. Do the NA versions have different electronics? I wouldn't think so...
     
    Brennan Raposo likes this.
  16. R P

    R P Active Member

    I have had my Kona now for just under 2 months (3500 kms), but have not noticed any unusual sounds, just the VESS with reverse and low speed forward. The only thing I do notice is a lot of road noise (maybe wind, too?) at hwy speeds.

    Having said we normally drive with the windows closed, and use climate control. Although, have tried turning them down a couple times to see if I can hear what you guys have been talking about. I have asked my wife, too, and she doesn't hear anything unusual either.
     
  17. SeanH

    SeanH New Member

    Try to go drive by her at ~10 mph. You have to either be on the accelerator or regening (not coasting). I can make the noise by tapping the accelerator or the regen part of the brake.
     
  18. Esprit1st

    Esprit1st Well-Known Member

    It is very weird. I am pretty sure mine doesn't do it. I try to listen once in a while as well but haven't noticed any noise like that.

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
     
  19. XtsKonaTrooper

    XtsKonaTrooper Active Member

    Ive been in underground parking lots and driven thru confined tim hortons drive thrus and only thing i hear is the VESS. I drive all the time in hotter weather with all the windows down and still dont hear anything odd.
    I also have good ole army hearing loss, so maybe that helps. Lol
     
  20. R P

    R P Active Member

    Was out again today, and rolled windows down on both sides as I was driving past buildings going slow. VESS was on to about 15 or 20 kph, and then totally quiet after that. Tried braking and acceleration a bit at low speeds, but nothing. So I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
     
    Jared Potter and XtsKonaTrooper like this.

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