Repair issues and fixes

[R P]

The best piece of evidence in my view is that the several owners (or their mechanics) who have rebuilt their own gearboxes all completed the repair by replacing the ball and roller bearings. No one has had to replace gears or the housing, and in every case the repair was successful. There's one case where the noise persisted and the mechanic found the motor tail bearing had also failed. That same mechanic (AutoRepairVideos) inspected a failed Niro gearbox bearing for electrical discharge and concluded that was not the cause.

In the big picture ball bearings rely on clean oil to obtain their optimum service life. What nearly 100 photos of used oil have shown is that the oil is almost always far from clean. Running in dirty oil compromises the lifetime curve that the bearing can achieve. Some fail while the car is still in service and some don't.

With all due respect, it doesn't convince me. There are many that had this tick tick failure very early, long before black oil should have had time to do that much damage. And oil that turns black very quickly doesn't necessarily mean dirty oil. And after successive oil changes, it seems to turn black again very quickly. And still don't have any examples where after replacing the gearbox and motor the tick tick problem came back. Why did mine last for 20K kms without further issues after my replacements? And I recall that some that have been diligent with changing their oil still had the tick tick issue occur.

 

[Wildeyed]

I had a bit of trouble today. Twice on a drive today my car lit up like a Christmas tree and my accelerator pedal was unresponsive. After restarting the problem resolved itself. Still, it's very disconcerting to have this happen randomly while on the road. It's eerily similar to a previous issue a couple of years ago when they found my accelerator pedal assembly was faulty and was subsequently replaced. I certainly hope there's a code stored that pinpoints the issue whatever it was.

 

[Zem]

I had a bit of trouble today. Twice on a drive today my car lit up like a Christmas tree and my accelerator pedal was unresponsive. After restarting the problem resolved itself. Still, it's very disconcerting to have this happen randomly while on the road. It's eerily similar to a previous issue a couple of years ago when they found my accelerator pedal assembly was faulty and was subsequently replaced. I certainly hope there's a code stored that pinpoints the issue whatever it was.

Hi Wildeyed. Have a look to this story:
https://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/gauge-clauster-going-haywire.15581/

 

[Wildeyed]

Hi Wildeyed. Have a look to this story:
https://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/gauge-clauster-going-haywire.15581/

Thanks. My dash lightshow was somewhat less dramatic than these. It's the unresponsive accelerator and gear shifts that I found concerning. Being unable to get out of live traffic is definitely unnerving.

 

[KiwiME]

My next oil change at a 4,000 km interval (27,600 km) is imminent, perhaps in the next two weeks as days are getting warmer. This is when I find out if the mod I did late last year to try and hold the factory magnet more stationary improved the situation...

The suspense was killing me so I did the job at 27,435 km, 165 km early of my 4,000 km goal. Bottom line, I'm calling it a 'win', the oil was not tinged black this time but appeared more green, much like spirulina. Sloshed around in a pan it was golden brown and clean, could have been left in place far longer. Magnets had minimal iron as many others have found at short intervals.

I used my inspection camera to relocate more precisely the external stack of magnets I had glued to the housing to better restrain the internal magnet. I added (2) more to make the stack 15mm high. A stack of (3) was only enough to just move move the internal magnet around so I'm thinking (5) should better restrain it against the influence of oil turbulence. There's about 9 mm of aluminium casing to get through so a strong field is needed.

If anyone else wants to replicate this the first issue is determining which pole goes up. The internal magnet could be oriented either way. It's not too hard to figure it out as when it's in the correct orientation at the position shown in my photo below the magnet will center itself and you can feel or hear the internal magnet following and moving in and out of its pocket as you slide the external magnet around, see short video here. So, you'd want to glue the external magnet as far away from the casing joint as it will comfortably sit so that the internal magnet stays hidden in its pocket.

I've used up my supply of oil and given the good results am unlikely to change it again. Chances are I'll be driving another EV in 2-3 years.


Fill and drain respectively. This is exactly the quantity of metal I would expect to see given the duration.


New Penrite 70W-75 v.s. old. It looks dark in sunlight but not so under 3000K LED, below.




New location of magnet stack, moved 10mm in the 8 o'clock direction, a drop of epoxy holding the first one in place, cured overnight. This location should be valid for any Kona but not the Ioniq as it's different.


The next (4) disk magnets are just stuck on. These were expensive, $22 per 3, and seem to be among the strongest grade of neodymium grades. It's very difficult to slide any two apart.

 

[Wildeyed]

I had a bit of trouble today. Twice on a drive today my car lit up like a Christmas tree and my accelerator pedal was unresponsive. After restarting the problem resolved itself. Still, it's very disconcerting to have this happen randomly while on the road. It's eerily similar to a previous issue a couple of years ago when they found my accelerator pedal assembly was faulty and was subsequently replaced. I certainly hope there's a code stored that pinpoints the issue whatever it was.

After a week and a half of uneventful driving I had the same issue crop up twice during a drive today. Drive disengages, dash lights up and I have to coast to the shoulder. I turned the ignition on and off and it seemed to reset itself. I'm hoping that with 4 occurrences now that a code will be stored for my service appointment coming Wednesday.

 

[Wildeyed]

After a week and a half of uneventful driving I had the same issue crop up twice during a drive today. Drive disengages, dash lights up and I have to coast to the shoulder. I turned the ignition on and off and it seemed to reset itself. I'm hoping that with 4 occurrences now that a code will be stored for my service appointment coming Wednesday.

Following up: My visit to the dealer today revealed that, yes, my accelerator pedal assembly is, once again, faulty. Apparently the module has been redesigned and is on back order. The redesign might indicate that something was amiss with the original component(s) that failed although I don't recall any mentions of this issue from other owners. They also suggested that my aftermarket rubber floormat may have been at fault since it was apparently pushed up under the accelerator pedal pivot point - although there's no proof of any connection. I am driving the car while awaiting the part and hoping this intermittent problem doesn't reoccur at an inopportune time or place.

 

[electriceddy]

Following up: My visit to the dealer today revealed that, yes, my accelerator pedal assembly is, once again, faulty. Apparently the module has been redesigned and is on back order. The redesign might indicate that something was amiss with the original component(s) that failed although I don't recall any mentions of this issue from other owners. They also suggested that my aftermarket rubber floormat may have been at fault since it was apparently pushed up under the accelerator pedal pivot point - although there's no proof of any connection. I am driving the car while awaiting the part and hoping this intermittent problem doesn't reoccur at an inopportune time or place.

Amazing what pitiful excuses these guys come up with, just to avoid warranty repair.
I also use non-OEM floormats and looked under the dash to see , the clearance from mat to pedal is at least 2-3 inches, and well below the OEM carpet that rides up the firewall, If there was to be any incursion, the mat would have to ride all the way up to just below the mounting bolts holding the pedal assembly in place, and if it did there would be more of an issue as it would interfere with the steering linkage.
BTW, my $20 set provide more protection, fit better and are more cost effective than these offered by Hyundai:

At least your problem will be covered by Hyundai hopefully in warranty and at no cost out of pocket.

 

[Wildeyed]

I did

Amazing what pitiful excuses these guys come up with, just to avoid warranty repair.
I also use non-OEM floormats and looked under the dash to see , the clearance from mat to pedal is at least 2-3 inches, and well below the OEM carpet that rides up the firewall, If there was to be any incursion, the mat would have to ride all the way up to just below the mounting bolts holding the pedal assembly in place, and if it did there would be more of an issue as it would interfere with the steering linkage.
BTW, my $20 set provide more protection, fit better and are more cost effective than these offered by Hyundai:

At least your problem will be covered by Hyundai hopefully in warranty and at no cost out of pocket.

I trimmed a window out of my mat around the pedal area. It was a small matter and the mat still provides plenty of wintertime firewall coverage. And who knows, maybe it was interfering with something?

In their defense the mat issue was not brought up in a punitive manner and there certainly was no inference of blame. And, yes, it's all covered under warranty.

 

[OzKona]

My WoF noise started early in the car's life, not long after I did the first oil change at about 2500km from memory. I would have done it earlier but I hadn't yet found this forum, its reports and its advice at the time.

I did further oil changes at 5000, 10,000 and 16,000 km. All drained oil was black with what appeared to be colloidal metal in suspension. I have reported this in these pages. The noise was intermittent and difficult to hear and was not present at the first annual service, so nothing was done about it at that time.

The second annual service fell due at 21000km. By this time the noise was pronounced. I reported it to the dealer who immediately acknowledged that there was an issue. They had dealt with one just before I reported mine, so I was pleased that I was not the guinea pig - the dealer knew the warranty drill, knew about the TSB and the workshop was familiar with the work.

They kept the car for a week, offering me a replacement (ICE) which I declined due to personal circumstances, and kept me informed. They isolated to noise to the GRU which was replaced. No new motor for me.

I asked for my magnetic plugs to be returned to me, which they did. They didn't seem perturbed about the fact that I had obviously been in there, changed the oil etc.

I suppose it remains to be seen how good this new GRU is. Will I be one of the lucky ones, or will the fault repeat? Will the oil go black? Etc.

I want to fit a tow bar, not for towing but to mount a bike rack for my eMTB. I've been told I can't do that without voiding the drivetrain warranty because the vehicle is not rated for towing in Australia. Even though I won't be towing, if there was a further drivetrain problem the presence of a towbar would be prima facie evidence of towing, according to HMC Aust. Obviously, given what has happened, I don't want to void the warranty.

 

[hieronymous]

Hyundai NZ supply a factory option for bikes, a hitch with an inverted cone instead of a ball. An aftermarket rack can be mounted on this, 2 opposing locking bolts being needed at the base of the rack design, to secure it on the cone.
The Hyundai hitch doesn't have a part number, it is listed as KonaEVBikeRack. I would expect that Hyundai AU sell these also. The NZ price is $633+gst, plus about 1 hour to fit ..

 

[KiwiME]

I was wondering even today how this was progressing, especially since it's the only case so far of the WoF noise occurring on an example subject to preventative oil changes. I half thought you might have traded up for something else by now just to reduce the stress.

It looks like your dealer has provided the service we all expect and you were fortunate to still be under warranty.

One less-fortunate owner here has been told by his dealer that just the first step in the TSB, the bracket change, will cost NZ$1346. This story is going to get a lot worse here before it gets better because there are many well-priced Konas on the used-car market now and most will be out of warranty. I see many innocent buyers asking about them on FB and I'm not sure if I should warn them away or let the chips fall where they may. It's as bad as climate change - no one really wants to hear the truth. The shame is that the Kona is a really good EV other than this one defect.

I suppose it remains to be seen how good this new GRU is. Will I be one of the lucky ones, or will the fault repeat? Will the oil go black?

A few months ago a German owner who waited months for their new GRU and motor reported that the dealer had said that the GRU had been recently revised, hence the delay. Of course that might have been a bluff but there is always the possibility that it's true. So, now you are presented with the unique opportunity to find out.

This whole issue has been on my mind for nearly 2 years now. The statistical evidence has overwhelmed the forensic and consequently it's worth me recognising that the right answer is the most likely. The "luck" or lack of that, is more about how much the ball-bearing predicted lifespan is compromised by the particle content. There are contamination factors that can be used when sizing bearings (per the SKF application guide) but the amount we have seen, your's included, is far higher than I would expect any engineer to consider as a worse case. The whole idea of industrial used-oil analysis is that it identifies things you can't see. In our cases there's little need to spend the dosh when the results are so highly visible. The chances of the obviously-filthy oil not being connected to the rash of WoF failures to me now seems incomprehensible, and that is simply where an individual vehicle's kms extend past the lifespan that had been compromised in those first few kms.

 

[OzKona]

Hyundai NZ supply a factory option for bikes, a hitch with an inverted cone instead of a ball. An aftermarket rack can be mounted on this, 2 opposing locking bolts being needed at the base of the rack design, to secure it on the cone.
The Hyundai hitch doesn't have a part number, it is listed as KonaEVBikeRack. I would expect that Hyundai AU sell these also. The NZ price is $633+gst, plus about 1 hour to fit ..

Thanks mate. I cannot get any hits on that, either in Hyundai Australia's website or more generally.

 

[OzKona]

On this new GRU, I plan on doing oil changes at 500, 1500, 5000km and every 5000km after that. It will be interesting to see the results.

KiwiME, I have thought about trading to another EV that has a tow rating but I'm wrestling with the $$$. I bought mine just before the NSW govt announced a $3000 subsidy and tax reductions, which reduced the new price considerably. As a result, I had planned to keep it long term. If I trade or sell now, I'll take quite a hit to the hip pocket, which I'm reluctant to do, especially for a young, low km car.

 

[22kona]

On this new GRU, I plan on doing oil changes at 500, 1500, 5000km and every 5000km after that. It will be interesting to see the results.

KiwiME, I have thought about trading to another EV that has a tow rating but I'm wrestling with the $$$. I bought mine just before the NSW govt announced a $3000 subsidy and tax reductions, which reduced the new price considerably. As a result, I had planned to keep it long term. If I trade or sell now, I'll take quite a hit to the hip pocket, which I'm reluctant to do, especially for a young, low km car.

That is the only issue I have with the Kona, it's not tow rated, but I tend to think we are still in the early EV development stage so I will be hanging on for a while.
Also I intend to give the Kona to my daughter in about 4 years, so I will be waiting, but I do understand where you are coming from.
The thing I love about the Kona is its range, in W.A that is the most important aspect, charging infrastructure is sparse and distances are huge.

 

[R P]

It's kind of sad that people have to deal with this tick tick issue after the warranty runs out. The lesson to others is get it done (replacing both the reduction gear and motor) before the warranty runs out.

Mine first appeared at about 19,000 kms, very faint and intermittent. But I did get the dealer to recognize it and initiate a warranty repair. The first step was the gearbox replacement. That seemed to work initially, but then after a short while it came back. The next step was a motor replacement (new part numbers) which I understand included a better clamping solution for the mating flanges. That fixed it for good for me. I sold the car at almost 50K kms and the tick tick (or any other issues) never reappeared.

The Kona (2019) otherwise was a great car for me, and was my first BEV. I went through all the recalls, incl the battery replacement, but that didn't bother me. However, it didn't fit my long term needs. I wanted a good trip car and one that I could go off-road to our cabin. The Kona was OK for tripping with good planning and patience but not great. So when the Ioniq 5 was announced, I knew that is what I wanted. So I put the Kona up for sale and sold it for $5K more than I paid for it after 3 years of use. It helped that at the time there was a real shortage of new EVs being delivered. That may not be the case today.

In the end, I bought the Ioniq 6, which is actually the ultimate trip car for us, high range and fast charging. Before that I also bought a Subaru Solterra which is my off-road car. Both have been great, and really happy with my choices. And no more ICE cars for us.

 

[Electric Rich]

Hi RP, I wish it was that easy to get it done before warranty runs out. My car has no noise, done about 30K, and i have 1 year left on my warranty. I'm very worried that my mostly gentle driving style has protected the drive train thus far, and all I've done is postpone the issue until its out of warranty.
Do we know of many cars that have done over 60K and HAVENT had the WOF tick?

 

[22kona]

@KiwiME a thought that has crossed my mind is, if this gearbox issue is non resolvable, I would have expected Hyundai to drop the Kona badge in the new model.
It wouldn't make marketing sense, to keep the name running, when there is a likelyhood of a stigma being attached to its longevity.
The battery issue was apparently resolved by a complete recall and replacement, so it will be interesting to watch if the reduction box issue escalates, or is resolved, mine has done 12,500km in 12 months and had 3 oil changes.

 

[OzKona]

Hi RP, I wish it was that easy to get it done before warranty runs out. My car has no noise, done about 30K, and i have 1 year left on my warranty. I'm very worried that my mostly gentle driving style has protected the drive train thus far, and all I've done is postpone the issue until its out of warranty.
Do we know of many cars that have done over 60K and HAVENT had the WOF tick?

I will "run in" my new GRU to 1500km, with oil changes at 500 and 1500km, with oil changes every 5000km after that. After 1500km I will drive normally, even a bit hard from time to time. If it fails again or if the oil rapidly discolours I will take consumer action. I have kept all my oil samples up to this point a possible ammunition in case the worst happens.

 

[KiwiME]

Lots of Konas don't have the WoF noise and there are many well over 100,000 km. It's not quite common enough to be described as an epidemic but if you search the forums and YouTube you'll find reports have been consistent from at least 3 years ago, long before I paid any attention to it. Often times on Reddit or Facebook someone will mention they have it then 5 more jump in and said they had it in the past. The vast majority of repairs have been covered by warranty and for that reason I think owners don't think much more about it, despite that I believe it could happen again. With warranties closing out in many countries and Hyundai unlikely to offer goodwill, the tone from affected owners is likely to change for the worse.

There doesn't seem to be any 'safe' kms or miles. With pending end of warranty you're best bet by far (in IMO of course) is to pay attention to cleanliness of the oil, despite that Hyundai don't tell us to. I'll just add that the ticking motor issue is not the same problem and there's nothing any of can do to reduce the risk.

I'm coming up on 2 years being out of warranty. At nearly 28,000 km, 100% SoH, having 4 or 5 oil changes and with a stack of magnets placed under the gear reducer my Kona has never run as quietly and smoothly as it does now.