bobcubsfan
Well-Known Member
Trying to verify. I have a friend in the car leasing business.
Wrong HV range
- Thread starter Kyle
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dstrauss
Well-Known Member
He may be referring to the FCEV and BEV models, which are clearly losing support (no hydrogen; 89 mile EV only). In fact, I can't for the life of me fathom why ANYONE would buy the BEV (other than the $199/month lease) when it barely gets 40 miles more EV range than we do, and we have a 280 mile gasoline backup engine!
With the battery underneath the floor, the hump is a stiffener feature for the floor. To make sheetmetal stiffer, you add bends in it or attach ribs to it. To make a flat floor otherwise, the stiffener ribs would be placed exterior to the passenger compartment but with the battery there, that option is not available. Likely for a similar reason (to increase stiffness), the roof has bends in it. Plus, with the hump in the floor, you now have some place for the wiring to go.
I was disappointed in the small rear seat pass through and expect it was a compromise resulting from the common design needs of the three powerplants and rigidity goals.
In-wiper fluid delivery was likely driven by wind-tunnel optimization.
dstrauss
Well-Known Member
Thanks Steve - and I'm sure there are good explanations for all design choices, but again, it just feels like a work in progress.
With Honda's often-stated dedication to increasing its percentage of electrified vehicles, it would be very surprising to see it's most electrified 50-state vehicle discontinued any time soon. The Clarity Plug-In Hybrid should be safe until battery technology improves enough to allow a 17 kWh battery to fit into an Accord.
The rule of thumb 40 mi EV range and 280 mi HV range, maintained in a few posts above, may be optimistic of you are on the East Coast, crossing river valleys. I see ~41 mi for May and as low as 32 mi for little slush in March, i.e. 86% and 70%, resp, of 47 mi. I can go back and extract how it actually depends upon temperature in more detail. This matches Tesla's articles 180 mi and 150 mi for the 60 kWh battery, see for example, https://www.greencarreports.com/new...odel-s-pushing-the-range-limits-in-60-kwh-car
In summer, Clarity PHEV then has 41/(17*0.9) = 2.7 MPkWh, Model S 100D has 2.85, Model S 60 has 3 MPkWh. A good result. Clarity is somewhat narrower and lighter but taller than Model S and bigger than Model 3. Smaller cars score better here. 2013 Nissan Leaf had 3 MPkWh, 2018 model has 3.2. Model 3 with 50 kWh will then have 0.86*220 mi/50 kWh = 3.8 MPkWh in summer.
In summer, Clarity PHEV then has 41/(17*0.9) = 2.7 MPkWh, Model S 100D has 2.85, Model S 60 has 3 MPkWh. A good result. Clarity is somewhat narrower and lighter but taller than Model S and bigger than Model 3. Smaller cars score better here. 2013 Nissan Leaf had 3 MPkWh, 2018 model has 3.2. Model 3 with 50 kWh will then have 0.86*220 mi/50 kWh = 3.8 MPkWh in summer.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
I hope that refers only to the Clarity Fuel Cell, and not the Clarity PHEV or the Clarity Electric!
KentuckyKen
Well-Known Member
Especially considering that tonight I saw 3 Clarity commercials. Same 30 sec one but on different channels. So Honda seems to be promoting the Clarity and it would seem a waste of money if they were going to discontinue it.
dstrauss
Well-Known Member
My gut tells me the BEV is on the chopping block. The FCEV is Honda's darling - they truly believe hydrogen is the best fuel source of all of the alternatives, and if hydrogen "stations" were ubiquitous, I'd agree with their assessment, save for all the lost space from the hydrogen tanks. The BEV just makes no sense, even as a compliance vehicle. 89 miles EV range is pathetic for an all electric vehicle, even as a commuter car, ESPECIALLY when you have the PHEV sitting there getting more than half of the estimated range EV range of the BEV and unlimited hybrid range.
The REAL challenge is that Honda (and the other OEM's for that matter) MUST do a much better job of explaining you can commute almost every day all electric and still go to Grandma's on the weekend 200 miles away!
The REAL challenge is that Honda (and the other OEM's for that matter) MUST do a much better job of explaining you can commute almost every day all electric and still go to Grandma's on the weekend 200 miles away!
The range issue bit me after my first long trip using gas. My dealer said he was clueless.
My review of the car is at http://jamesrome.net/drupal/clarity
Honda needs to listen to feedback.
My review of the car is at http://jamesrome.net/drupal/clarity
Honda needs to listen to feedback.
I took my clarity to the dealer today. After waiting an hour until the West Coast Honda office opened, I got the official response to this: " We are aware of this issue and have it under investigation. So far as we know it's from an error in the calculation process. We are fixing the range calculation software and will be releasing a new software version. For now, if you run into this issue, don't replace any parts. We'll let you know when that new software is available."
I enjoyed reading your nice review, which identifies both good and bad features of the Clarity PHEV. Of course, that congratulations leads into my nit-picking:
I believe you meant "Audi E-tron, not Acura E-tron" in your review. Also, in addition to the side glass, the expensive Clarity windshield is also acoustic glass.
It would seem to me that the regen braking by the Clarity's traction motor would reduce the burden on the brakes, not increase the need for additional cooling. I've decided the wheels offer no real aerodynamic benefit because the left-side and right-side wheels are not mirror images, so the benefit on one side is canceled out by the same-design wheel rotating the opposite direction on the other side.
Has anyone else heard that there is a limit of 5 free map updates for the Clarity?
Good read, Jarome.
Sorry that your Honda dealer claims there isn't a fix for the HV range estimate. However, there IS a software fix available that they can install. It's been talked about quite a bit on this forum.
You may need to go back in with your complaint, and ask them to search the online Dealer website iN under "Clarity". It should pop up as a service advisory.
I also might be misunderstanding the "range issue after the first long trip" that you mentioned above.
Good luck,
-Skip
leehinde
Well-Known Member
re: 'There is a real safety issue because of the slow response of the display screen system. When you put on the right turn signal, there is often (usually) a 1-s delay before the right-side TV camera appears. This is much too long in a heavy traffic situation when you need to quickly dodge between cars.'
You know, there's another solution for this 'problem.'
And, as was mentioned, there is a solution for the range problem. No solution for out-of-touch dealers yet.
su_A_ve
Well-Known Member
The two issues so far that haven't been addressed are the Plug-In Charger System Problem error, which Honda is still waiting for a fix (dealer contacted tech line today about it).
And XM not working if you precondition the car. This one, I need to schedule another appointment with a diagnosis tech as they could not reproduce the problem...
And XM not working if you precondition the car. This one, I need to schedule another appointment with a diagnosis tech as they could not reproduce the problem...
My neck is fused, so I can't easily look! That is why I got a Clarity instead of an Accord Hybrid.
I have had times when my XM does not work. What caused this? What is preconditioning?
I read this whole thread, and did not see a solution. I may have missed it. I hardly used any gas for the first 500 miles. Then took a trip to Atlanta (200 miles), and after I filled up, the range became wrong.
KentuckyKen
Well-Known Member
Have your dealer install Service Bulletin 18-069 which is the fix for the erroneously high HV range estimate.
It’s been available since mid June.
It’s discussed in this thread:
https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...fix-is-out-and-ready-for-dealer-install.2375/
Also, your blog on the Clarity was pretty good but has a few minor errors.
-the green led by the charging port does not indicate a full battery. It goes on while charging and off whenever charging stops and doesn’t go on when plugged in if scheduling is activated.
- the gray parts of wheel cover are not to direct air onto the brakes but an attempt at aerodynamics. But as @insightman points out, Honda didn’t make them reversed for each side, so one side is always backwards. The brakes are standard discs and need no extra cooling compared to any other disc brakes. In fact the fronts are ventilated and with regenerative braking they get far less use and thermal stress than gas mobile brakes.
- the + regen paddle reduces the regen just like the - paddle increases it.
- there is no official word from Honda about the number or duration of free map updates. It’s misleading to spread a particular dealer’s promise that means nothing in the real world.
-you correctly criticize the HV range (before update) as being meaningless, but later brag on the total range. The total range is the sum of the EV and HV range estimates, so you can’t have it both ways. Before the HV Range fix update is applied, you can get HV and total ranges of 1,000s of miles! So total range is also meaningless before the update is applied.
And BTW, nice catch of the rear wheel well canted to direct air flow. Few people notice that and I think your blog is the first to report it.
Welcome to the forum.
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