Winter EV operation

  • Thread starter Thread starter prestoOne
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 92
  • Views Views 19K
ResilientMtl said:
I am 99% sure that the car uses a heat pump
Click to expand...
The Clarity Electric has a heat pump, but the Clarity Plug-In Hybrid uses a resistance heater when in EV Drive mode. When the ICE is running, the Clarity Plug-In Hybrid shuts off the resistance heater and uses the ICE to heat the cabin.
 
ResilientMtl said:
I live in Montreal, I don't have a garage; but I have a parking spot with a 240 V plug. I just made it through my first full winter with my Honda Clarity PHEV (2018 model) and here is my summary.
The car clearly changes it's behaviour based on ambient temperature. Leaving the car plugged in overnight, it will draw electricity from time to time which I'm assuming is for the battery heater.
Pre-heating the cabin before leaving works with the 240 V plug, and heats the cabin while leaving the battery untouched. It also seems to warm up the battery more so than not pre-heating the cabin.
If the temperature is below -15 C (5 American), then the engine comes on when you start the car. Without putting it in "EV" mode, it will run the engine for some time. I'm assuming that this is to warm up the battery. Range is listed as 42 km (26 miles). If the car is in a garage, then maybe this doesn't happen. Coldest temp I started the car in was -25 C. The engine came on right away, but I could drive the car without issue.
If the temperature is between -15 C and 0 C (32 American), the engine may come on; but most often it stays off until battery range is depleted.
I am 99% sure that the car uses a heat pump; which is effectively running the AC in reverse. Heat pumps are more efficient than resistive heating, but do have a lower temp limit. I would suspect that Honda has a way for the heat pump to pull heat away from the engine in extreme cold. I never had an issue heating the cabin.

Overall mileage in the winter suffers, however this isn't that different than when I had my Sonata Hybrid. Winter tires, reduced traction and reduced battery capacity all conspire to reduce your range (both electric and hybrid). IC cars suffer the same as well, Pure electrics take a hit in the winter as well, all about chemistry so no use complaining about it. I drove from Montreal to Ottawa in January, it was cold (-22 C) with a headwind. At 105 kph (65 mph) on the highway the engine stayed on the whole time, overall mileage was 7.5 liters/100 km (31.4mpg). However; it is important to note that the car is significantly better overall than my Sonata Hybrid was in terms of efficiency. In the winter the sonata averaged around 8.5 l/100 km (27.8 mpg) vs the summer at 7.0 l/100km. The Sonata had a slightly larger passenger cabin, but much less trunk space. I have calculated that the clarity uses 42% of the energy (in terms of $ cost) vs the Sonata.
In the summer the mileage is much better, 80 km electric is possible.
Unlike the Tesla Model 3, the Clarity works in the winter; even when covered in ice and snow in the morning. You can open the covers, the doors and easily access the cabin. The only challenge is that the windshield wiper reservoir holds less than 2 liters of wash fluid; so in a Canadian winter you have to fill the windshield washer fluid (pop the hood) every 5 days or so. A bit annoying, but likely only a problem in the north.
Happy with the car. Overall summer mileage around 2.6 l/100 km (90.5 mpg), high mileage days (I'm in sales and drive 500+ km in a day from time to time) are around 3.4 l/100 km (69 mpg) and the winter averaged out to 3.9 l/100 km (60 mpg) (Jan-April). Put it all together and you get around 3.3 liters/100 km (71 mpg). I have 28,000 km on the car now (18,760 miles), have had to service it twice (oil changes).
Improvements? Make the IC engine quieter, replace the infotainement head unit with a better one and a bigger wash fluid tank. Could be prettier or sportier....but then it wouldn't be a car designed for efficiency.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the detailed summary. This is much needed data that can now be added to the collective wisdom.

One comment on your your heat pump theory. I can’t speak for the Canadian model but due to many posts and attached documents and diagrams it safely can be said that the American model does not have a heat pump. It has an AC and a resistance heater in the engine coolant flowing to the heater core. It is super fast to warm up and that may make it appear to be a heat pump but it is not.

I’m glad you had a 240 v outlet for parking outside in those Canadian winters. No doubt it made all the difference for you by keeping the battery warm and preconditioning without losing range. If you ever get a garage, please post back and tell us what difference it made.

Thanks again for sharing and convincing me not to move to Canada even though y’all are the nicest posters on the forum.
 
insightman said:
The Clarity Electric has a heat pump, but the Clarity Plug-In Hybrid uses a resistance heater when in EV Drive mode. When the ICE is running, the Clarity Plug-In Hybrid shuts off the resistance heater and uses the ICE to heat the cabin.
Click to expand...
I'm not completely sure about that.
I have concerns that the electric element helps with heating the cabin even in HV mode with the engine coolant at operating temp.
Looking for a way to test.
 
I think the resistance heater supplements heat, even in HV mode.

I am learning not to trust what I read on the internet, especially about the Clarity.

I recently lost EV miles when driving in HV, when the temperature got cold, and the heater kicked up. It should have been using ICE heat, but it really seemed like the resistance heater came on. I drove from NY to WI in 50-60F weather, and lost the normal amount of EV range. I drove from WI to NY in 30F weather, and lost all my EV range (30 miles) in less than 200 miles.

Also, when I was running my zero EV range test, I kicked on the heater for the last couple miles, and the ICE went crazy - Seemed like it added significant load to the ICE. My explanation was that the resistance heater required more electricity from the system.

It would be nice to check this: Anybody know where the wires to the heater are? Maybe somebody can get an amperage measurement on those wires.
 
ClarityBill said:
It would be nice to check this: Anybody know where the wires to the heater are? Maybe somebody can get an amperage measurement on those wires.
Click to expand...
One way to check would be to pull the fuse for the heater and then redo your test and observe whether the EV range declined as quickly. Probably will need to wait until the weather cools again.
 
ClarityBill said:
I think the resistance heater supplements heat, even in HV mode.

I am learning not to trust what I read on the internet, especially about the Clarity.

I recently lost EV miles when driving in HV, when the temperature got cold, and the heater kicked up. It should have been using ICE heat, but it really seemed like the resistance heater came on. I drove from NY to WI in 50-60F weather, and lost the normal amount of EV range. I drove from WI to NY in 30F weather, and lost all my EV range (30 miles) in less than 200 miles.

Also, when I was running my zero EV range test, I kicked on the heater for the last couple miles, and the ICE went crazy - Seemed like it added significant load to the ICE. My explanation was that the resistance heater required more electricity from the system.

It would be nice to check this: Anybody know where the wires to the heater are? Maybe somebody can get an amperage measurement on those wires.
Click to expand...
It sounds like your heater system is not operating properly. I've driven similar distances in much colder temperatures and not lost near that much EV range. Pulling the fuse seems like a good test for you.
 
I have also driven similar distances in much colder temperatures without losing EV range. My lost EV range happened at 77-80 mph.... too many variables for a road test.

I am not convinced there is that much difference in the Clarity's.

Where is this fuse?
What is the voltage?
Heater is 'supposed to be' about 3.5 KW, right?
Is it AC or DC?
 
I did not find that the heater had much effect on range loss in HV. I find that speed and hills seem to have more effect.
 
MNSteve said:
One way to check would be to pull the fuse for the heater and then redo your test and observe whether the EV range declined as quickly. Probably will need to wait until the weather cools again.
Click to expand...
Anyone have the exact location of the heater fuse?
 
ClarityBill said:
I have also driven similar distances in much colder temperatures without losing EV range. My lost EV range happened at 77-80 mph.... too many variables for a road test.

I am not convinced there is that much difference in the Clarity's.

Where is this fuse?
What is the voltage?
Heater is 'supposed to be' about 3.5 KW, right?
Is it AC or DC?
Click to expand...

Atkinson said:
Anyone have the exact location of the heater fuse?
Click to expand...

Atkinson and ClarityBill

This may help.

Thread courtesy of: @jorgie393

https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...ich-positions-are-switched-vs-always-on.3794/

or the attached .pdf
 

Attachments

Last edited:
MPower said:
I did not find that the heater had much effect on range loss in HV. I find that speed and hills seem to have more effect.
Click to expand...
Put another way, I've found the heater has an incredibly large effect on EV range (in pure EV mode without using HV). On the same day (temps in the high 40s) driving with climate control on (temp set to 68 with fan on 2 bars) dropped my EV range considerably. With the heater on, I can get about 32-35 miles of range. With it off, I get 42-47 easily.
 
I agree. Heater use in EV really sucks down the battery, but I did not find the same degree of battery depletion in HV.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top