Wassup with Sales?

[Tim66]

Sadly, your story is the norm. In fact, I would go so far as to say that I can't recall a single story from the forum where a sales person understood the vehicle, was able to extol the virtues, or even presented a prospective customer with a charged vehicle. This is a major shortcoming that Honda (and apparently the others) need to address somehow. All you hear about in the news is electric electric, electric, yet NONE are prepared to "sell" anything that deviates from the 100 year old paradigm... Extremely disappointing.

Well, here's your exception. The salesman who sold me my Clarity was very knowledgeable about the car. The car was fully charged and freshly washed. He knew about the rebate, the paddles, lane departure, adaptive cruise, charging options, the detent, etc. Funny aside: He was showing us the infotainment system and called his mom using the steering wheel buttons. Turns out I went to high school with his mother I should point out that he is one of the most, if not the most, productive and successful salesmen at the dealership.

Tim

 

[RickSE]

Well, here's your exception. The salesman who sold me my Clarity was very knowledgeable about the car. The car was fully charged and freshly washed. He knew about the rebate, the paddles, lane departure, adaptive cruise, charging options, the detent, etc. Funny aside: He was showing us the infotainment system and called his mom using the steering wheel buttons. Turns out I went to high school with his mother I should point out that he is one of the most, if not the most, productive and successful salesmen at the dealership.

Tim

And then you woke up from your dream?

 

[Lowell_Greenberg]

Well, here's your exception. The salesman who sold me my Clarity was very knowledgeable about the car. The car was fully charged and freshly washed. He knew about the rebate, the paddles, lane departure, adaptive cruise, charging options, the detent, etc. Funny aside: He was showing us the infotainment system and called his mom using the steering wheel buttons. Turns out I went to high school with his mother I should point out that he is one of the most, if not the most, productive and successful salesmen at the dealership.

Tim

The overall experience of buying a Clarity was mixed for me- and I live in a ZEV state. First, even a 2019, did not have all of the relevant updates applied at the factory- resulting in the all to common Christmas tree of error lights very early on (dealer prep). The dealer paint prep was also so-so. The salespeople ranged from out right liars to respectful and reasonably informed.

Also, the 6k dealer incentive on 2019s was sometimes not disclosed and for a period made the low supply 2019s much cheaper than the 2018s filling the dealer lots.

Finally, the cars I test drove ranged from fully charged, as well as having the back window dark tape removed for better rear visibility, to not well charged. Most sales people could not describe the different drive modes (which is understandable).

So my characterization is mixed. The dealers effectively forced me to piece together the relevant elements using this forum as an aid.

As for the car itself- it has been fine. The powertrain is impressive, the safety features decent, comfort and handling are very good, braking is fine and I like the styling and aerodynamics. I still hear some occasional passenger side rattles at certain times of day on certain road surfaces- and at some point, I'll get those resolved. Nothing major.

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[4sallypat]

Well, here's your exception. The salesman who sold me my Clarity was very knowledgeable about the car. The car was fully charged and freshly washed. He knew about the rebate, the paddles, lane departure, adaptive cruise, charging options, the detent, etc. Funny aside: He was showing us the infotainment system and called his mom using the steering wheel buttons. Turns out I went to high school with his mother I should point out that he is one of the most, if not the most, productive and successful salesmen at the dealership.

Tim

Same experience here.
My sales person was just as knowledgeable when I got the Clarity.

He thought I also knew a lot about the car as well and said before I signed - "here's the keys, have fun on YOUR test drive"...

At the end of my test drive I was able to drive the Clarity into their service area and plug it into their charger as part of my test drive alone....

Fully detailed and charged by the time I got out of F&I.

 

[2002]

Same experience here.
My sales person was just as knowledgeable when I got the Clarity.

He thought I also knew a lot about the car as well and said before I signed - "here's the keys, have fun on YOUR test drive"...

At the end of my test drive I was able to drive the Clarity into their service area and plug it into their charger as part of my test drive alone....

Fully detailed and charged by the time I got out of F&I.

I wouldn't say my salesperson in northern Georgia was a Clarity expert by any means but he at least knew what the car was about and even asked me if I would be using 240V or just regular 120V outlet for charging. When I went on the test drive it was already charged without me asking. Doesn't mean they charged it just for me but at least it wasn't empty like so many people report.

 

[fotomoto]

the SUV/pickup-loving North American vehicle buyers are ready for a sub-compact electric car with 120 miles of EV range.

Yeah, if so then the LEAF would still be a big seller.

Having the dealerships drop the price from $35k to $26k in one email pushed me over the edge.

We had active California dealers pushing massive deals like this on the Volt forum even after the Gen 2 came out that was such a big upgrade over Gen1. They were so good that even I in Texas was considering going out there to land such a deal (and because there were none locally).

like GM and Ford did by killing the Volt and C-Max in spite of their popularity,

Nah, sorry but that's just wrong. Both cars were losing sales month over month and both had to resort to throwing piles of cash on the hood to move the metal. I know because I got big deals on both a Gen1 volt and my 2013 C-Max (nearly $8k off AND zero % financing; rarely do you get both). Also, a lot of Fusion hybrid sales went to rental fleets (a common manufacturer sales tactic when trying to boost numbers).

 

[coutinpe]

Yeah, if so then the LEAF would still be a big seller.



We had active California dealers pushing massive deals like this on the Volt forum even after the Gen 2 came out that was such a big upgrade over Gen1. They were so good that even I in Texas was considering going out there to land such a deal (and because there were none locally).



Nah, sorry but that's just wrong. Both cars were losing sales month over month and both had to resort to throwing piles of cash on the hood to move the metal. I know because I got big deals on both a Gen1 volt and my 2013 C-Max (nearly $8k off AND zero % financing; rarely do you get both). Also, a lot of Fusion hybrid sales went to rental fleets (a common manufacturer sales tactic when trying to boost numbers).

Maybe I'm biased by my L.A. experience where I see lots and lots of Volts everywhere. I was actually going to buy a C-Max first but they discontinued it, then same thing with the Volt.

 

[fotomoto]

Maybe I'm biased by my L.A. experience

Yeah, that's where most of the sales were. As I stated in another similar thread, Cali was once responsible for two out of every three prius sold back in the day. Keys Chevrolet was the big discount pricing dealer for volts I was referring to.

 

[2002]

Maybe I'm biased by my L.A. experience

The last time I visited California I was at a grocery store and realized that in the parking lot near me was a Prius Plug-in (predecessor to the Prime). The next day a Toyota Mirai FCV passed by on the freeway.

Your experience is very different than the rest of the country.

 

[4sallypat]

Yeah, that's where most of the sales were. As I stated in another similar thread, Cali was once responsible for two out of every three prius sold back in the day. Keys Chevrolet was the big discount pricing dealer for volts I was referring to.

Maybe I'm biased by my L.A. experience where I see lots and lots of Volts everywhere. I was actually going to buy a C-Max first but they discontinued it, then same thing with the Volt.

Where I am in So Cal, I see more Teslas than Prius Prime or Chevy Volts.

 

[fotomoto]

Where I am in So Cal, I see more Teslas than Prius Prime or Chevy Volts.

Last I heard Cali is responsible for nearly 1/2 of all Tesla sales.

Before M3:

 

[Ray B]

I could be way off but I get the impression that the Clarity PHEV is a late-inning bunt to get a runner in scoring position, and to make room for the clean-up batter. A clumsy analogy, but I just think they are using it to collect data in order to bring in a much more viable EV/PHEV line in the next year or two, and most importantly, preserve as much of the 200,000 car limit to keep the federal tax incentive alive to get the next model a discount to get them momentum now that GM and Tesla are already beyond that limit. Just speculating. I think that explains why they constrain production and marketing of this car so they preserve that unspent 200K limit for what comes next.

https://evadoption.com/ev-sales/federal-ev-tax-credit-phase-out-tracker-by-automaker/

 

[DucRider]

Atl east for me, it takes almost 2 hours to get from 40% to 95% charge on a Level 2 Volta charger. Can't speak for the Teslas, maybe they're way faster.

The Clarity PHEV does not have DCFC (the Clarity Electric does) and it's L2 is ~ 7.2 kW max.
The Tesla Model 3 owners show charging at 145 kW in real world situations (theoretical rates are higher) so at least 20 times faster (but probably 40). You are reporting ~ 7.5 kW in 2 hours. At 145 kW that would take about 3 minutes.

 

[DucRider]

I could be way off but I get the impression that the Clarity PHEV is a late-inning bunt to get a runner in scoring position, and to make room for the clean-up batter. A clumsy analogy, but I just think they are using it to collect data in order to bring in a much more viable EV/PHEV line in the next year or two, and most importantly, preserve as much of the 200,000 car limit to keep the federal tax incentive alive to get the next model a discount to get them momentum now that GM and Tesla are already beyond that limit. Just speculating. I think that explains why they constrain production and marketing of this car so they preserve that unspent 200K limit for what comes next.

https://evadoption.com/ev-sales/federal-ev-tax-credit-phase-out-tracker-by-automaker/

Honda put 1,100 Fit ev's into Section 177 States starting in 2012. They were lease only deals and by leaasing you agreed to just that type of data collection. Leasing the Clarity Electric includes the same provision. They have been gathering EV driving data for 7 years, so the Clarity PHEV may add to the data, but it is certainly not a primary factor in producing it.

 

[insightman]

A clumsy analogy, but I just think they are using it to collect data in order to bring in a much more viable EV/PHEV line in the next year or two, and most importantly, preserve as much of the 200,000 car limit to keep the federal tax incentive alive to get the next model a discount to get them momentum now that GM and Tesla are already beyond that limit.

If Honda continues making sedans, I believe the next Accord will have space for a 40-50 mile battery pack (which will likely be a smaller-than-Clarity package by then) and this new Accord PHEV will take the place of the Clarity PHEV.

Whatever happened to the Pilot PHEV seen testing more than 14 months ago? Will it finally appear at the LA show in November?

 

[Lowell_Greenberg]

I am not sure that the major source is this thread and/or others, but...

https://insideevs.com/news/363526/honda-clarity-plug-in-hybrid-sales-california/

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[Fast Eddie B]

If Honda continues making sedans, I believe the next Accord will have space for a 40-50 mile battery pack (which will likely be a smaller-than-Clarity package by then) and this new Accord PHEV will take the place of the Clarity PHEV.

I was imagining a similar scenario, but with the new Accord PHEV giving more EV range and a larger gas tank. 60 or 70 miles or more EV range and 10 or 12 gal gas tank would be cool! Not to mention a more modern infotainment system.

Now imagine Honda offering a buyback program for our “test mules”, offering either an even trade for a new Accord PHEV, or cash buyback of our Clarities for what we paid for them. It might make economic sense for them to do so, to avoid continued support of a low-volume beta-test vehicle. As much as I enjoy the uniqueness of our faux Citroens*, I would likely jump at such an offer. Assuming, in the case of the cash buyback scenario, that other, similar options will be on the market by then. If not, I just might consider keeping our “orphan”.


*I wonder who will be the first to install rear fender skirts on their Accord PHEV!

 

[MrFixit]

Is the Clarity going the way of the Edsel ("Before it's time")?

The Edsel was produced for only 2+ model years (1958, 1959, 1960), but even back in those days, the numbers were dramatically higher than the Clarity.
Ford sold 68,000 in 1958 ; 47,400 in 1950 ; and only 2,800 in 1960.

It is hard to believe that Honda would invest so much to produce a nice production-ready vehicle just to sell ~30K over the course of 2 years. I do not believe that CARB incentives were the primary motivation. Yes, it could be a technology stepping stone (toward an SUV or whatever), but why produce so many 'prototypes', and why not prototype the SUV instead of what is essentially an Accord-class vehicle?

I'm going to think [hope] they are having some kind of supply-chain problem which will be overcome and get the pipeline flowing again !! The alternative is a little depressing. They are obviously capable of producing at least 2,800 Clarity's per month (34,000 per year) since they did this in December 2018. Honda will have to say something [and soon] because the 2020 model year is fast approaching.

 

[jdonalds]

For people with 2 car households, a BEV for one of their cars can make sense, but for a single car household, a PHEV makes better sense at this point in the infrastructure buildout.

I agree. But if I had two cars I'd want one to be a BEV with perhaps 80-100 miles of range and I'd like to pay in the high $20K range. The other would be a PHEV with 50 miles of EV range and 300 miles of HV range. The PHEV could be in the mid $30K price range and have lots of features. The BEV could have less features to keep the cost down.

 

[Electra]

I agree. But if I had two cars I'd want one to be a BEV with perhaps 80-100 miles of range and I'd like to pay in the high $20K range.

The eGolf would be a good candidate since they're discounting it similar to the Clarity. $23k - $7500 tax credit.