Lars
Well-Known Member
I would talk to my dealer. This even if it a just a nonsense for now, it should be looked at. Your car looks "new" 2022/2023? All components of the electric should be covered with the 8yr 160,000 km warranty.
Repair issues and fixes
- Thread starter Francois
- Start date
- Replies 866
- Views 243K
I would talk to my dealer. This even if it a just a nonsense for now, it should be looked at. Your car looks "new" 2022/2023? All components of the electric should be covered with the 8yr 160,000 km warranty.
Ferenc Jakab
Active Member
No BM2 but 12V battery is seemingly, normal voltage. Cell balance is good but since a spell of daily high speed motoring (three months) and needing 100% charge each time, GOM only gives 390KMs at best and SOH is dropping regularly and is now 96%. @ 58,000 kms.
Will be doing 60,000 service soon and fruitless discussion with dealer kept ignorant by Hyundai.
Our summer temps have been between12 C at night to 30 C during the day.
Thank you for sharing your insights on the reliability of the Ioniq 5 compared to the earlier reports of issues with the Kona EV. It's reassuring to hear that there haven't been widespread reports of major powertrain failures with the Ioniq 5, especially considering its higher volume of deliveries.
It's unfortunate that some owners have encountered issues with the 12V battery and HVAC/battery cooling setup. However, it's not uncommon for new models to have some teething problems, and it's encouraging that these issues seem to be more manageable compared to the powertrain issues experienced with the Kona/Niro.
Overall, it appears that the powertrain of the Ioniq 5 is proving to be more reliable, which is a positive development for owners and prospective buyers alike. It's essential for manufacturers to continue improving and refining their electric vehicle technology to ensure long-term reliability and customer satisfaction.
Thank you again for sharing your observations, and here's hoping for continued reliability and success with the Ioniq 5.
For more info: https://www.torque360.co/
KonaME
New Member
Issue: Preset radio stations on SiriusXM will not advance past the 1st preset and will only allow you to toggle stations in reverse to the 2nd preset.
Fix: After noticing that the 2nd preset was a Pit-Bull station that I do not recall adding to my favorites, I removed the preset (sorry Pit-Bull fans). After I removed the preset, I was able to toggle through my stations without issue. Seems like a software bug that it won't advance past the station if the station is no longer available on SiriusXM, but also kind of odd that it added the Pit-Bull station.
Fix: After noticing that the 2nd preset was a Pit-Bull station that I do not recall adding to my favorites, I removed the preset (sorry Pit-Bull fans). After I removed the preset, I was able to toggle through my stations without issue. Seems like a software bug that it won't advance past the station if the station is no longer available on SiriusXM, but also kind of odd that it added the Pit-Bull station.
Question about gear reduction unit oil. I am letting the dealer change it at 120km so if the GRU fails there will not be a warranty hassle. Their quote specified "LM20012 Liquid Moly GL4+ gear oil 75w90 1 litre". Not pn 00232-1906-3. What do you think, forum members? This one is above my pay grade.
CV boot question: has anyone needed to replace one? My passenger side inner is a little damp, but not too bad yet. Dealer price on replacement is shocking, considering it will already be up on a lift for GRU oil change. I've done this job plenty of times on hondas and VWs, but I want to check the procedure especially withdrawing and reinstalling the axle from the GRU (on hondas it prys out and clicks back in). Anyone have the relevant pages in workshop manual? Thanks!
PS> Rock auto price on entire axle with both CVs is <$100Cdn!
PPS> It could also be a seal on the GRU, I'll have them check.
PS> Rock auto price on entire axle with both CVs is <$100Cdn!
PPS> It could also be a seal on the GRU, I'll have them check.
It more or less meets the spec in my owners manual: 70W, API GL-4, TCGO(MS517-14). I doubt the slight difference in viscosity is meaningful. Since this is the dealer's choice for oil, it's still under warranty, and I have not had any GRU noise I think I will take the chance on the liquid moly. Feel free to warn me if you think I am making a bad decision here.
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
That oil is a fair bit thicker than the 70W specified and the dealer should know better. Here are various oils for which I've graphed the viscosity range, including the OEM Hyundai 70W - the thinnest oil here. The Kona GRU tends to run around 45°C and there is a quite a big difference.
If you're in a very cold region use one of the lower five oils in the list. If in a mild region then any of the lower seven.
If you're in a very cold region use one of the lower five oils in the list. If in a mild region then any of the lower seven.
Last edited:
All the people here that have done research on the GRU have done a great service to Kona owners that are willing to find it. Read through almost all of it and have probably already forgotten most of what I've learned. Most importantly tho' thanks to this thread I'll book an oil change asap and do the magnets (sourcing the Votex DP007 plugs seems to be challenging in my part of Europe).
1) I've just bought a 2019 Kona EV with 94'000km on it, I'm way past preventing early damage and service history doesn't show any oil change. It is running pretty smooth now without any noticeable noise however so this unit might have avoided the misfortune of WoF. I hope I'll be able to convince the dealership to show me what's pouring out during the change and serve as another datapoint. (As expected the dealership advised to do a change only at 120k km, but didn't argue against if that's what I wish to pay for)
2) My battery seems to have been changed last year as part of the recall so the coolant should be good however I'm concerned about the it's colour... I was told at the dealership it's supposed to be green. Mine however is greenish orange/brown. I'm intending to have that changed too. I've requested a quote and the dealership will do both a coolant and GRU oil change with OEM liquids for 280€ (300USD/460AUD/410CAD) which sounds a bit steep for just a liquid change, but isn't much for ease of mind. They did however say that green coolant liquid is enough for Kona as opposed to Ioniq 5's more expensive liquid (mentioning something around 1k€ for it's coolant change). I've read somewhere to go with blue liquid, which I'm guessing is the expensive one for Ioniq 5, but the places I've read it are the same ones I've read people saying to stick with Hyundai prescribed 120k km GRU oil changes so they're not the most trust inducing.
tl;dr
Does anyone here have experience with the coolant being greenish-orange/brown? Should this immediately be changed to green? Is it worth it to cash out for blue? Am I totally missing something here?
1) I've just bought a 2019 Kona EV with 94'000km on it, I'm way past preventing early damage and service history doesn't show any oil change. It is running pretty smooth now without any noticeable noise however so this unit might have avoided the misfortune of WoF. I hope I'll be able to convince the dealership to show me what's pouring out during the change and serve as another datapoint. (As expected the dealership advised to do a change only at 120k km, but didn't argue against if that's what I wish to pay for)
2) My battery seems to have been changed last year as part of the recall so the coolant should be good however I'm concerned about the it's colour... I was told at the dealership it's supposed to be green. Mine however is greenish orange/brown. I'm intending to have that changed too. I've requested a quote and the dealership will do both a coolant and GRU oil change with OEM liquids for 280€ (300USD/460AUD/410CAD) which sounds a bit steep for just a liquid change, but isn't much for ease of mind. They did however say that green coolant liquid is enough for Kona as opposed to Ioniq 5's more expensive liquid (mentioning something around 1k€ for it's coolant change). I've read somewhere to go with blue liquid, which I'm guessing is the expensive one for Ioniq 5, but the places I've read it are the same ones I've read people saying to stick with Hyundai prescribed 120k km GRU oil changes so they're not the most trust inducing.
tl;dr
Does anyone here have experience with the coolant being greenish-orange/brown? Should this immediately be changed to green? Is it worth it to cash out for blue? Am I totally missing something here?
navguy12
Well-Known Member
I hate to say it, but the colour of that coolant reminds me of what would drain out of the rad from a ‘77 Lincoln I used to own…
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
It seems certain that you have been lucky enough to find one of the earliest examples before they changed to the blue coolant. All that's happened here is that when they replaced the battery they topped off the coolant with a yellow type like Zerex. The proof that it was originally not blue is that you were able to remove the reservoir cap easily. The blue coolant models have an icon of a mechanic on the cap with a reversed thread and a locking tab.
The standard Hyundai-branded coolant at the time was a conventional green type but they now use a pink variety. My coolant now is now red because they mixed pink with the original green when the battery was replaced.
As unattractive as it looks in brown I don't see that there's any technical problem. If the two types were incompatible it would be obvious by now. I'd suggest that you have the option of leaving it but fully understand that changing it gives more certainty, and I'd probably do that if it were my car. Afterwards it may take a few weeks for the level to settle, so grab a small bottle for toping-off, if they'll give you that.
I think the price is actually OK because it's a fairly lengthy job to flush it out as they have to use their Hyundai service computer to run both cooling pumps. There may still be traces of the brown present after they're done.
As for the gear reducer (and motor) there's certainly a good chance that they will be fine. Only a small number do fail, my best guess is under 1%. Check what oil they will use if it's not the Hyundai DCT 70W.
This magnetic plug will be easier to find.
The standard Hyundai-branded coolant at the time was a conventional green type but they now use a pink variety. My coolant now is now red because they mixed pink with the original green when the battery was replaced.
As unattractive as it looks in brown I don't see that there's any technical problem. If the two types were incompatible it would be obvious by now. I'd suggest that you have the option of leaving it but fully understand that changing it gives more certainty, and I'd probably do that if it were my car. Afterwards it may take a few weeks for the level to settle, so grab a small bottle for toping-off, if they'll give you that.
I think the price is actually OK because it's a fairly lengthy job to flush it out as they have to use their Hyundai service computer to run both cooling pumps. There may still be traces of the brown present after they're done.
As for the gear reducer (and motor) there's certainly a good chance that they will be fine. Only a small number do fail, my best guess is under 1%. Check what oil they will use if it's not the Hyundai DCT 70W.
This magnetic plug will be easier to find.
Last edited:
I would have the cooling system flushed and the fluid changed with pink type ( not LC Blue).
It looks like some corrosion has occurred or some of the additives have dropped out. You are not far off the mandatory replacement time as I believe it is 120K kms.
Could this be the result of an alignment issue of the x4 bearing bores (x2 motor, x2 gearbox)?
I'd love to set up a motor and gearbox on a workbench with a precision shaft through the bearing bores and measure the bearing bores in the middle while the bar was suspended by two machined locating discs taking the place of the bearings. Maybe open up (machine to larger size) one of the middle bearing bores to help any alignment issue. Use a retaining compound to locate the bearing. Also use the correct spring clips that Hyundai uses but perhaps with a slight increase in tension. The old aircooled VW engines needed to be align bored from time to time during a rebuild. Maybe these motor and gearbox cases need this as well to correct a manufacturing defect.
https://next.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/applications/retaining-compounds.html
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/flat-spring-clips/corrosion-resistant-wave-disc-springs/
Another help could be an external electric oil pump (differential or manual transmission cooling oil pump) and external spin on filter. Many of the racing catalogs sell them. It would need not run 100% of the time. Perhaps a short time each drive. Toggle switch or automatic timer. The fill and drain plugs could be the hose connections using 90 degree brass fittings and rubber hoses - plain or braided SS covered. Would definitely not be factory approved. The filter should sequester the metal chips effectively.
I'm reading all this to prep for ownership of a 2021 Kona Ultimate that we bought today and pick up this weekend. ~30K miles. Will immediately do the gearbox oil change. I have a copy of the Carfax report. Details are a bit scarce. Would Hyundai give me a copy of the maintenance records for this VIN#? Could I get these online?
I read the whole thread. Thanks everyone who put in their two cents. This has been very valuable to me as an owner of a Kona.
I'd love to set up a motor and gearbox on a workbench with a precision shaft through the bearing bores and measure the bearing bores in the middle while the bar was suspended by two machined locating discs taking the place of the bearings. Maybe open up (machine to larger size) one of the middle bearing bores to help any alignment issue. Use a retaining compound to locate the bearing. Also use the correct spring clips that Hyundai uses but perhaps with a slight increase in tension. The old aircooled VW engines needed to be align bored from time to time during a rebuild. Maybe these motor and gearbox cases need this as well to correct a manufacturing defect.
https://next.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/applications/retaining-compounds.html
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/flat-spring-clips/corrosion-resistant-wave-disc-springs/
Another help could be an external electric oil pump (differential or manual transmission cooling oil pump) and external spin on filter. Many of the racing catalogs sell them. It would need not run 100% of the time. Perhaps a short time each drive. Toggle switch or automatic timer. The fill and drain plugs could be the hose connections using 90 degree brass fittings and rubber hoses - plain or braided SS covered. Would definitely not be factory approved. The filter should sequester the metal chips effectively.
I'm reading all this to prep for ownership of a 2021 Kona Ultimate that we bought today and pick up this weekend. ~30K miles. Will immediately do the gearbox oil change. I have a copy of the Carfax report. Details are a bit scarce. Would Hyundai give me a copy of the maintenance records for this VIN#? Could I get these online?
I read the whole thread. Thanks everyone who put in their two cents. This has been very valuable to me as an owner of a Kona.
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
The alignment question was a popular theory early on but so far there's been no supporting evidence such as damaged splines. Also, it seems almost inconceivable that an engineering giant such as Hyundai could mangle such a fundamental design and production requirement. The internal magnet issue which I think is the main problem could have been a cost reduction gone wrong ... based on that the similar Kia Soul EV GRU had a better-fitting rectangular magnet that looks to be expensive to source.
There was one report from Europe where an owner rebuilt their own GRU and found the input shaft motor-side bearing housing significantly worn but I think that is more likely due to the geometric over-constraint issue where the bearing has insufficient radial loading to keep it from spinning. Not only does the SKF bearing application guide recommend outer-race retention in these conditions but I see that Tesla has done this in their new Cyber Truck GRUs (see image), despite recognising and correcting their own overconstraint situation by the Model 3. Note the slot cut into the outer races.
The wavy washer could work but I think that being too weak was the root cause of tail bearing failures found in the early motors. It needs to be quite strong to resist the raceway from turning. Aside from an axial clamp, which the motor uses on the business-end bearing, there's another way that I used industrially in the 1980s, something called a tolerance ring. Naturally McM-Carr has that as well. But really one of the four bearings needs to go to ascertain proper loading on the other three and that's been done in the 2023 Niro/2024 Kona, finally catching up with everyone else.
I've also considered an add-on oil filter system but also recognise that every added complication reduces reliability. Since I don't drive much an oil change once or twice a year at home is enough to keep the oil very clean and I'm down to 1 hour now for that job. I'm not even using the underside magnets anymore, just the two Votex magnetic plugs.
I'm actually testing a slightly thicker oil grade during our winter, a 75W-80. It's possible to do this because our national maximum speed limit is 100 or 110 km/h and my local ambient temp doesn't drop under freezing. The 70W oil will be based on the Kona's top speed of 160 and needing to handle extreme cold in global markets. So far, 2 weeks in, the car is running much quieter. I'm tracking energy efficiency to see if there's a measurable difference.
I'm not sure where you can get records for your new Kona.
Meanwhile I've received another used-oil report today and that data is included in the graph linked below, now broken into four graphs for clarity.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18XsnmXd2WgqBwPVeOpOIlThFlAk98XYs/view?usp=sharing
There was one report from Europe where an owner rebuilt their own GRU and found the input shaft motor-side bearing housing significantly worn but I think that is more likely due to the geometric over-constraint issue where the bearing has insufficient radial loading to keep it from spinning. Not only does the SKF bearing application guide recommend outer-race retention in these conditions but I see that Tesla has done this in their new Cyber Truck GRUs (see image), despite recognising and correcting their own overconstraint situation by the Model 3. Note the slot cut into the outer races.
The wavy washer could work but I think that being too weak was the root cause of tail bearing failures found in the early motors. It needs to be quite strong to resist the raceway from turning. Aside from an axial clamp, which the motor uses on the business-end bearing, there's another way that I used industrially in the 1980s, something called a tolerance ring. Naturally McM-Carr has that as well. But really one of the four bearings needs to go to ascertain proper loading on the other three and that's been done in the 2023 Niro/2024 Kona, finally catching up with everyone else.
I've also considered an add-on oil filter system but also recognise that every added complication reduces reliability. Since I don't drive much an oil change once or twice a year at home is enough to keep the oil very clean and I'm down to 1 hour now for that job. I'm not even using the underside magnets anymore, just the two Votex magnetic plugs.
I'm actually testing a slightly thicker oil grade during our winter, a 75W-80. It's possible to do this because our national maximum speed limit is 100 or 110 km/h and my local ambient temp doesn't drop under freezing. The 70W oil will be based on the Kona's top speed of 160 and needing to handle extreme cold in global markets. So far, 2 weeks in, the car is running much quieter. I'm tracking energy efficiency to see if there's a measurable difference.
I'm not sure where you can get records for your new Kona.
Meanwhile I've received another used-oil report today and that data is included in the graph linked below, now broken into four graphs for clarity.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18XsnmXd2WgqBwPVeOpOIlThFlAk98XYs/view?usp=sharing
I wonder if that's actually on the thrust side of the bearing? I've encountered a couple of Konas with noisy gearboxes. That's the sound of gear teeth contacting somewhere they shouldn't. No question that the Niro gearbox noise offical inspection video is absolutely that. It's practically the ISO standard call of helical gears with thrust bearings so perished that they can push off to where the teeth contact something that's not the mated gear. I'd love to see photos of that gearbox rebuild process if they exist!
Does anyone here have experience with the coolant being greenish-orange/brown? Should this immediately be changed to green? Is it worth it to cash out for blue? Am I totally missing something here?
Your coolant pic shows a color that is almost certainly the result of topping off with a different color. So we can be sure that they did not flush the system.
This does not necessarily mean the fluids were incompatible. Some of the different colors are just a different dye. I would call them on it and ask.
You may have a work order or bill that lists the fluid used?
Your coolant pic shows a color that is almost certainly the result of topping off with a different color. So we can be sure that they did not flush the system.
This does not necessarily mean the fluids were incompatible. Some of the different colors are just a different dye. I would call them on it and ask.
You may have a work order or bill that lists the fluid used?
Seems to be a repairkit on the market for replacing the bearings.
I guess it also can be used for the Kona.
I didn't know so many used.
https://evclinic.eu/product/kia-eniro-edrive-kit-repair/
I guess it also can be used for the Kona.
I didn't know so many used.
https://evclinic.eu/product/kia-eniro-edrive-kit-repair/
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
That's good to see but hopefully we'll see local solutions for other global regions as well. That would cost me about NZ$1,200 with shipping and GST.
I'm puzzled as to why their product photo seems to show all the ball bearings provided as the sealed variation when the (4) OEM parts are open, like the (2) tapered-rollers at the lower-right.
The GRU only has six bearings in total so it seems they have provided two for the motor as well, which does use a sealed type.
The spacers are no-doubt used to adapt two of the bearings to a standard bearing size. It's been mentioned several times by owners doing DIY repairs that the OEM bearings are not all standard sizes.
The kit should fit the Kona but I'll note that my understanding is that the gear ratio is slightly different than the Niro and I'm not 100% certain that all the bearing sizes are exactly the same.
I'm puzzled as to why their product photo seems to show all the ball bearings provided as the sealed variation when the (4) OEM parts are open, like the (2) tapered-rollers at the lower-right.
The GRU only has six bearings in total so it seems they have provided two for the motor as well, which does use a sealed type.
The spacers are no-doubt used to adapt two of the bearings to a standard bearing size. It's been mentioned several times by owners doing DIY repairs that the OEM bearings are not all standard sizes.
The kit should fit the Kona but I'll note that my understanding is that the gear ratio is slightly different than the Niro and I'm not 100% certain that all the bearing sizes are exactly the same.
Last edited: