KiwiME
Well-Known Member
If anyone gets the opportunity, it would be useful to know what the inside diameter is of the recess in these new style plugs so that we can recommend a suitable maximum magnet diameter.
Repair issues and fixes
- Thread starter Francois
- Start date
- Replies 875
- Views 252K
Konan the Explorer
Well-Known Member
Here is some more data regarding reduction gear oil change. I just did my first change at 69000 km and the oil is was dark enough that I could not shine a light through it. Added a double stack of external magnets to oil drain plug. Here are the results of the oil sample.
Attachments
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
I've added your UOA results, circled for clarity, on the graph I've been maintaining. In summary the numbers are good considering the kms, the highest distance to the first oil change reported so far. Wear metals are likely to level off after the initial break-in period and I expect that's why you're not much higher than the others at lower kms. With the addition of magnets the iron level will be far lower on the next oil change. The slight loss in viscosity (5.2 v.s. the original 5.4) is completely expected based on the other results.
Thanks for spending the money on the UOA and reporting this, it adds to the ongoing body of knowledge!
Thanks for spending the money on the UOA and reporting this, it adds to the ongoing body of knowledge!
Konan the Explorer
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the update on the graph, thought the higher mileage would prove useful to the dataset! Oil samples are a cheap way to keep an eye on things.
navguy12
Well-Known Member
IIRC, there was no (magnetically induced) tool handling drama for me to remove the plugs with the two magnets in situ.If @navguy12 could chime in, maybe he could add more insight into the difficulty of magnetized socket application difficulties to tighten (or remove) the plugs. I know he used 2, maybe that is the cut-off...after all it is his original design workaround; here on in referred to as " the navguy12 external magnet technique"
eleced
Member
This 18mm magnet might suit the new plugs, atleast for NZ and AU.
https://www.bunnings.co.nz/everhang-18mm-round-rare-earth-magnets-3-pack_p3690100
I'll see if I can convince the dealer to add them with oil change tomorrow.
https://www.bunnings.co.nz/everhang-18mm-round-rare-earth-magnets-3-pack_p3690100
I'll see if I can convince the dealer to add them with oil change tomorrow.
Regnaston
Member
So on the 2023 Kona Preferred I am having a couple of "issues"
1. I can not get Android Auto to go full screen, could this be a phone limitation? (TCL 10) I have uncheck the "split screen" in the car
2. On the bluelink menu when I press "maintenance" it says additional setup is required at mybluelink.ca but when I go there and log in there is nothing to setup
3. In the Setup>General Setup>SW Info under OTA Update it says "not available" and that Bluelink Extra Services not activated
Anyone have an idea on how to fix one or all of these?
1. I can not get Android Auto to go full screen, could this be a phone limitation? (TCL 10) I have uncheck the "split screen" in the car
2. On the bluelink menu when I press "maintenance" it says additional setup is required at mybluelink.ca but when I go there and log in there is nothing to setup
3. In the Setup>General Setup>SW Info under OTA Update it says "not available" and that Bluelink Extra Services not activated
Anyone have an idea on how to fix one or all of these?
Electric Rich
Well-Known Member
Hope this isnt a stupid question, but are you guys clueing these magnets to the plugs?
eleced
Member
The magnets are quite strong, so I think they will hold themselves in place quite happily. I didn't ask the dealer to glue them.
If I was DIY I would probably add a drop of superglue to be sure.
eleced
Member
So dealer was very good and added the magnets to the outside of the plugs, as others have done. 2 on drain, 1 on fill.
Took 1.1 litres or so, so have most of a full bottle for next time.
Old oil is very dark, but smells OK, similar smell to new oil. New oil is quite clear though.
@KiwiME do you see value in an oil test? 2020 Kona at 15950km.
BernieNS
Member
Re: Reduction gearbox and oil.
I'm close to 30000kms and have no noise or clicking concerns, however after reading all this decided to change oil early. I put magnets on the outside of the plugs, drove for another 500kms, then changed the oil. The oil coming out was black and shiny, and looked typical for a gearbox after that usage. There was no significant detritus on the plugs. (I'm 71, diy mechanic, and have changed many many gearbox oils of various types).
Refilled with Hyundai 00232-19063 oil and was a bit shocked at how thin it is. I suspect energy efficiency won out in the design negotiation. It seems to me that this gearbox is undersized for the torque available (entirely a personal non-scientific opinion) and needs to be carefully run-in, and oil changed, before all the power is put through it.
It was a muggy high-humidity day and had a moment of panic when a puddle appeared underneath, but all's well, just water!!
I'm going to repeat the process in a few thousand kms.
Apart from that, what a fantastic car! For a small country, the South Koreans have excelled in recent decades, but that's another subject.
I'm close to 30000kms and have no noise or clicking concerns, however after reading all this decided to change oil early. I put magnets on the outside of the plugs, drove for another 500kms, then changed the oil. The oil coming out was black and shiny, and looked typical for a gearbox after that usage. There was no significant detritus on the plugs. (I'm 71, diy mechanic, and have changed many many gearbox oils of various types).
Refilled with Hyundai 00232-19063 oil and was a bit shocked at how thin it is. I suspect energy efficiency won out in the design negotiation. It seems to me that this gearbox is undersized for the torque available (entirely a personal non-scientific opinion) and needs to be carefully run-in, and oil changed, before all the power is put through it.
It was a muggy high-humidity day and had a moment of panic when a puddle appeared underneath, but all's well, just water!!
I'm going to repeat the process in a few thousand kms.
Apart from that, what a fantastic car! For a small country, the South Koreans have excelled in recent decades, but that's another subject.
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
Temps are normally low in the gearbox so it won’t smell burnt. An oil analysis would add knowledge but is unlikely to differ from the others we have. I’m confident that we understand the “iron” part of the problem and that magnets correct that. It’s the “aluminium” content that is still a concern and it could take years to reach a conclusion unfortunately. BTW, since your dealer was cooperative it would be useful for me to know which one it was so I can advise owners who ask me in NZ.
Last edited:
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
Generally black oil is considered indicative of an underlying problem from an industrial perspective. A simple gear reducer should not make the oil black in short order and unfortunately we see that consistently with the Kona/Niro/Ioniq.
The difficulty with lubricating these 2-stage gearboxes common to EVs is accommodating both the high pinion speed and the nearly zero output speed of the differential spider gears. In the end it appears that pitch line velocity at the input pinion won out as the deciding factor and at the typical operating temp of 45°C a viscosity of 30-40 cSt @40°C suits that. An EP rating of GL-4 deals with the high pressure found in the output gears, as it does in a typical automatic transaxle. The oils that meet those specifications are any ATF and any thin manual transmission oil. It seems that only the legacy Hyundai/Kia spec the MTF (actually their DCT oil) while others call out ATFs, including the new Hyundai/Kia E-GMP series. Dual-clutch transmissions (DCT, DSG, etc) use a thinner oil to allow brutally-rapid robotic shifting. There may be some element of reducing churning losses as well but I suspect that's already very low.
eleced
Member
The Christchurch Dealer, so one to choose from.
I put the oil in to Terra Cat this morning on the way to work, so lets see next week.
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
Looking forward to that, thanks!
****
As a note in general regarding the gearbox, we have a new report over at HyundaiKonaForum of a case where the oil was first changed at 14k km with a Votex added and now appears to be developing the WoF (wheel of fortune) noise at 18k km. The owner will likely get a UOA and we will be looking for a low iron level (due to the Votex) but an unusually-high aluminium level.
ScubaSteve
Well-Known Member
That's normal at this point in time for all 3 points. Get used to it; it's the same for the Ioniq 5. Cheers, Steve
eleced
Member
Oil report attached ...
electriceddy
Moderator
Thanks for posting, Seems in line with other samples so far (according to @KiwiME chart),replaced early enough to also limit any ongoing damage. What is the mileage at changeout?
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
Thanks for posting that ... yes, you're right in the middle of the mix with iron slightly high and aluminium slightly low. The addition of a magnet will bring down the iron significantly.
I've got enough UOA now (9) to incorporate all 'no-magnet' data into the trendlines - will work on that today.