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Repair issues and fixes
- Thread starter Francois
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Lars
Well-Known Member
Got it!
I find this concerning. What kind of material are the gears made of? What kind of oil does Hyundai use here. Today's lubricants (particularly synthetics) tend to last for ages/miles/kilometres - take your pick.
I had the 'transmission' fluid checked in our Mitsubishi iMiEV at 40,000km by the dealer - it still looked 'used but clean'. Nowhere near black.
I find this concerning. What kind of material are the gears made of? What kind of oil does Hyundai use here. Today's lubricants (particularly synthetics) tend to last for ages/miles/kilometres - take your pick.
I had the 'transmission' fluid checked in our Mitsubishi iMiEV at 40,000km by the dealer - it still looked 'used but clean'. Nowhere near black.
I will definitely ask for an inspection on the mechanics recommended "Canadian cycle" @ 24K kms ( '21 Canadian Hyundai manual is 28 months - 56K kms cycle) for inspection and the results are obvious.
It means dropping the under cover and opening the fill plug, so unless it is crystal clear I will ask it to be changed as the cost at that point is minimal. I expect ~ $150, also provide a good opportunity for the mechanics to inspect parts that would not normally be available to observe with the covers on .
This equates to every 3 years at my present yearly mileage accumulation, $50 bucks a year cost. I can live with that.
Doesn't even come close to what I have enjoyed saving with free public charging for the last 9+ years
Lars
Well-Known Member
I will definitely ask for an inspection on the mechanics recommended "Canadian cycle" @ 24K kms ( '21 Canadian Hyundai manual is 28 months - 56K kms cycle) for inspection and the results are obvious.
It means dropping the under cover and opening the fill plug, so unless it is crystal clear I will ask it to be changed as the cost at that point is minimal. I expect ~ $150, also provide a good opportunity for the mechanics to inspect parts that would not normally be available to observe with the covers on .
This equates to every 3 years at my present yearly mileage accumulation, $50 bucks a year cost. I can live with that.
Doesn't even come close to what I have enjoyed saving with free public charging for the last 9+ years
I can't believe that you have to take the car apart to check the colour of the transmission oil and replace it if needed.
But as you say $50/year is not too much.
Sorry, no "dipstick" on our cars, but sure would have made things a lot easier
Lars
Well-Known Member
Sorry, no "dipstick" on our cars, but sure would have made things a lot easier
I can't recall any car having dipstick for transmission oil. They were for engine oil.
ScubaSteve
Active Member
Air contains 79% nitrogen.
markintosh13
Member
Hi
Just noticed that my 2019 Ultimate charging port indicator light & the battery level button next to it do not light up (even when successfully charging).
Any thoughts?
Just noticed that my 2019 Ultimate charging port indicator light & the battery level button next to it do not light up (even when successfully charging).
Any thoughts?
This from a Leaf, I wonder if Kona EV has the same magnetic trap on the drain plug:
another pictured here:
Clearly (pun intended) a wise idea just to check for the little expense involved
Source:
https://twitter.com/snfosberry/status/1431576232655732737
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A manual gearbox full of meshing teeth, maybe 20 gear wheels, and synchro cones etc can last 100's of thousands of miles without generating this much debris that has come from just one meshing pair. Changing the oil frequently will keep the oil looking clean(er) but it doesn't address the issue of what is causing all that debris. There is an unaddressed design issue somewhere, IMO.
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
Generally, splash lubricated manual or differentials and pump-lubed automatic gearboxes use one or two magnets to sequester ferrous wear particles. Most of it comes off in the first 1/10th of its life while gear hobbing artifacts are worn off. It's the rolling-element bearings in the transmission that won't like this sort of contamination.
I don't think the Leaf example is unusual but perhaps on the high side.
There's nothing out of place here, that's how this stuff has worked for seven decades. In high school I took home a 3-speed manual gearbox that I "found" while walking home from school one day in 1971 and when I took it apart I found it had a large magnet glued to the inside of the iron housing with a massive amount of iron filings attached.
I don't know if the Kona gear reducer has a magnet or not, but it would be design negligence if it didn't. Changing the oil doesn't tell the whole story because the magnets are not normally fitted on the drain plug.
I don't think the Leaf example is unusual but perhaps on the high side.
There's nothing out of place here, that's how this stuff has worked for seven decades. In high school I took home a 3-speed manual gearbox that I "found" while walking home from school one day in 1971 and when I took it apart I found it had a large magnet glued to the inside of the iron housing with a massive amount of iron filings attached.
I don't know if the Kona gear reducer has a magnet or not, but it would be design negligence if it didn't. Changing the oil doesn't tell the whole story because the magnets are not normally fitted on the drain plug.
Stark-hobbit
New Member
Looking for help!!
My 2020 kona electric 39kw has been in the garage for 6 weeks now. They are saying they cant find a fault.
The AA ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE have had to fix it at the road side twice since i bought it. With a 'check ev system' warning light that also tenders the car immobile.
Error codes 1AA600 AND P0C17 PRESENT
These apparently were wiped when the AA SERVICE reset the vehicle.
Has anyone had any similar issues with their kona ev.
I understand they cant fix what isn't showing but I have given them photos of the codes and diagnostic machine from AA.
IM BASED IN UK but have only seen issues fro. USA and Canada in regards to the codes.
They want me to take back my car and if/when it happens again dont get it fixed by AA Get it recovered and brought to them. But they've acknowledged that its faulty. As have the AA.
HELP!
My 2020 kona electric 39kw has been in the garage for 6 weeks now. They are saying they cant find a fault.
The AA ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE have had to fix it at the road side twice since i bought it. With a 'check ev system' warning light that also tenders the car immobile.
Error codes 1AA600 AND P0C17 PRESENT
These apparently were wiped when the AA SERVICE reset the vehicle.
Has anyone had any similar issues with their kona ev.
I understand they cant fix what isn't showing but I have given them photos of the codes and diagnostic machine from AA.
IM BASED IN UK but have only seen issues fro. USA and Canada in regards to the codes.
They want me to take back my car and if/when it happens again dont get it fixed by AA Get it recovered and brought to them. But they've acknowledged that its faulty. As have the AA.
HELP!
Lars
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear your troubles. Not sure where is your car 'in a garage'? If not at the dealer, I would take it to their lot/garage. Here (Canada) Hyundai would take the bricked car to their garage/dealership at no charge. Maybe you can try an other dealership??? Call around.
ColoradoKonaEV
Member
This happened to my Kona after changing to 100% at home with level 2 charger. Each time I was able to connect OBD2 tester and "clear" the error codes. It says it failed to clear the codes but the car is drivable again. I am in USA.
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apu
Well-Known Member
I posted this in a another thread but I think this thread is more appropriate as I will call this a final resolution to my driveline chatter noise(card in the bike spoke wheels tick). Again to recap the ticking noise started ay 7,000 km, would get more pronounced in the cold. After much hubbub my dealer replaced the traction motor at 17,000 km which resolved the noise until it came back at 40,000 km. The dealer apparently referenced a newly available TSB that directed them to install an updated motor mount kit with new mounting bolts for the engine/reduction gearbox. Finally at 51,000km my car is silent and I like my car againThe trouble is getting your dealer to do things you feel may be best practice but he does not or the direction they get from Hyundai is inconsistent. I first heard the ticking noise at 7,000 Km but it was like pulling teeth to get dealer to do something. They finally replaced only my motor at 17,000km, now at 40,000km I am pretty sure I am hearing a faint ticking under certain conditions. I have learned the hard way just to ignore it and wait for it to get worse because that is exactly what my dealer will tell me
. Now if they can sort the traction battery recall I will have nothing to complain about, yes!
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
After mulling this over for a few days I'm going to step up and say that I believe Hyundai engineering were remiss in not equipping the Kona gear reducer with a magnetic drain plug. The oil I pulled out of my Kona after 19,000 km was as dark as black coffee and contained a light loading of fine ferrous wear particles.
It's completely out of character for a simple gearbox to discolour oil in such a short time, never mind darken it. Watching the half dozen Leaf oil changes on YouTube, none were nearly as dark (noting that the Leaf uses ATF, already dyed dark red) and the magnetic drain plugs (two on the Leaf) were "chocker," as we say down here. I'll note that it's normal for gears to shed steel slivers, especially when new. In the Kona these slivers will be ground down to dust because of the failure to remove them from circulation. The addition wear caused by that is regrettable considering the low cost of the appropriate magnetic drain plug.
I'd like to have an oil analysis done but down here in NZ that's expensive as vendors market their services to heavy industry, not home DIY oil changers. But, I believe the blackness is caused by wear of aluminium rather than steel or overheating. The only place aluminium can wear inside the gearbox are at the bearing housings, the machined pockets that hold the bearing outer races. Under certain conditions such as light loading and/or high bearing friction the outer races can spin momentarily if not press-fitted. Because the gearbox casing is vertically-split it's likely that the ball bearing-to-housing fit is a clearance rather than a press fit. You can see on the one disassembly video available that the primary shaft bearings stay on the shaft, not in the housing. The final drive tapered rolling-element bearings are different, they have their outer races pressed into the housing because the bearings come apart when not confined.
I'm mentioning all this because there may be a connection to the gearbox clicking noises. Here's a potential but totally theoretical scenario:
- Because of the over-constrained by design condition set up between the motor and primary gearbox shaft splined connection (as I've described once or twice over the past two years and a situation also found in the Leaf but in no other common EV) the radial load in the region of the spline is shared by two ball bearings, the sealed one at the motor output end and the oil-lubricated one at the primary gearbox shaft at the motor end. Good mechanical engineering design practice is to NOT do this. It may look benign on paper but it's an open invitation to trouble down the road.
- Over a spread of production tolerances there may be some vehicle examples where the gearbox-side bearing becomes lightly loaded at moments in time. That can allow the outer race to spin if bearing friction is sufficient to turn it.
- Bearing friction can be higher under cold conditions where the oil is thick, or if the oil contains hard metallic debris that finds its way into the raceways.
- Once a gearbox bearing outer race develops a tendency to spin it will eventually wear its precision locating diameter in the gearbox casing. The wear will produce aluminum debris which will show up as a darkening of the oil. Anyone who's polished aluminium with grinding paste would recognise this darkening phenomenon.
- As the bearing outer race clearance to the housing increases the load on the spline's locating diameter becomes more severe. Note that involute splines such as this use an adjacent slip-fit locating diameter to keep the spline centered radially when under low torsional loading. Under higher loading an involute spline is self-centering. "Involute" is the shape you see on gear teeth.
- If that spline locating diameter (greased at initial assembly) becomes worn, now the motor is damaged and won't behave well with a new gearbox. Also, there would certainly be knocking noises produced as the spline and raceway clearance deteriorates.
- It would be great if an owner in N. America can step up and get an oil analysis done.
- All owners would be advised to change the oil at no later than 30,000 km, not that this will prevent the potential of acquiring the clicking issue.
- We need to identify a suitable aftermarket magnetic drain plug. It's an M18 thread probably 1.5mm pitch and about 12mm long. I didn't think of checking the internal clearance for a magnet. A suitable part would have a stainless steel body such as the VOTEX brand. It's possible that an OEM magnetic drain plug would work if we can locate a suitable part. The Leaf one looks a bit too long.
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hobbit
Well-Known Member
If the drain plug is steel and internal clearance permits, would it be feasible to simply stick one of those
super-strong neodymium magnets to it, perhaps with a little reshaping of the internal plug face to
flatten it if needed, reinstall and refill? What's the likelihood of it coming loose and banging around
in the case? It also wouldn't catch the alloy wear metals, but if things are where they should be,
I'd expect that to be minimal.
_H*
super-strong neodymium magnets to it, perhaps with a little reshaping of the internal plug face to
flatten it if needed, reinstall and refill? What's the likelihood of it coming loose and banging around
in the case? It also wouldn't catch the alloy wear metals, but if things are where they should be,
I'd expect that to be minimal.
_H*
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
Placing anything “foreign” inside the gearbox would make me very nervous. If it came loose the gearbox would instantly and catastrophically fail, possibly locking up the front wheels.
The ideal magnetic drain plug would have a mechanically crimped-in magnet rather than glued in like most aftermarket ones appear to be.
I’ve been searching online and there are some OEM applications that might yield a suitable candidate. 1980s Landcruisers for example.
The ideal magnetic drain plug would have a mechanically crimped-in magnet rather than glued in like most aftermarket ones appear to be.
I’ve been searching online and there are some OEM applications that might yield a suitable candidate. 1980s Landcruisers for example.
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