My New Tesla Invention
- Thread starter TalkTesla
- Start date
- Replies 37
- Views 5K
Nice production and through research.
GOOD JOB!
Sad to say, looking at the Plugshare map, there is a high-speed, charging desert around Fort Smith AR. Traveling from Huntsville AL to my Oklahoma relatives, I would have to divert hundreds of miles North or South adding hours to the charging delays. I'm only 14 hours away using either of our plug-in hybrids.
Bob Wilson
GOOD JOB!
Sad to say, looking at the Plugshare map, there is a high-speed, charging desert around Fort Smith AR. Traveling from Huntsville AL to my Oklahoma relatives, I would have to divert hundreds of miles North or South adding hours to the charging delays. I'm only 14 hours away using either of our plug-in hybrids.
Bob Wilson
Martin Williams
Active Member
Heres a high priest of Tesla calling the faithful to defend their idol. However, I think there is bullshit on both sides.
Not the least was the 'invention' of a bullshit detector that doesn't exist! Or comparing the number of accidents from nearly 300 milion ICE vehicles with a handful of Teslas and concluding from this that this 'proves' teslas are safer.
They may actually BE safer, although recent events makes one wonder, but biased comparisons like this prove nothing except that the person presenting it as an argument is himself a bullshitter of some distinction.
Not the least was the 'invention' of a bullshit detector that doesn't exist! Or comparing the number of accidents from nearly 300 milion ICE vehicles with a handful of Teslas and concluding from this that this 'proves' teslas are safer.
They may actually BE safer, although recent events makes one wonder, but biased comparisons like this prove nothing except that the person presenting it as an argument is himself a bullshitter of some distinction.
TalkTesla
New Member
Clearly you didn't take the time to understand the numbers presented in the video. The comparison you're making would be BS and drawing a conclusion from data like that would prove nothing, so it's a good thing that's not at all what we did. The data is calculated 'per mile driven'... this allows for a more apples to apples comparison. A fair criticism would be that the national average does include older vehicles with fewer standard safety options, but still Tesla vehicles are far safer than any average car.
I'd recommend putting "Martin Williams" and "101101" on your 'ignore user' list because:
- Proverbs 18:2 A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.
- Proverbs 18:6 A fool's lips walk into a fight, and his mouth invites a beating.
- Proverbs 29:9 If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet.
I'm seeing a few other Tesla advocates pushback against the skeptics . . . adopting Elon's style. A Prius owner from 2005, I still remember the critics whose facts and data left so much to be desired. I just want to confirm this is an independent effort by Tesla owners?
Tesla's success leveraged other manufactures to claim they are competitive. Only their EV cars appear to be 'eye candy' or prototypes and not serious. For example, the VW electric MicroBus. How hard can it be?
GOOD LUCK and GIVE 'EM 'ELL!
Bob Wilson
David Green
Well-Known Member
You video quality is nice, but unfortunately it offers no value other then to a Tesla fan boy, which by definition already loves Tesla, and does not need your Rah rah rah! Your comment on safety is ridiculous, Tesla has had 4 fatalities in the USA so far this year, for example the Audi A6 since 2011, has more cars on the road then Tesla, and 0 fatalities. Likewise BMW 535XI, and there are seven others with no fatalities. Now Fires, there have been over 14 Tesla Fires in the USA in a fleet of 183,000 cars, or 1 in 13K. How many Bolts have burned? Leafs? How many people in the USA have been killed by an EV fire, I think just the 2 boys in Florida? On the topic of safety there are many questions, and if Musk would not claim to be the safest people would not do comparisons which reveal inconvenient truths.
TalkTesla
New Member
I did not claim they were statistically the safest, I claimed they are far safer than the average car.
The right answer is to look at all of the fatal accidents which NHTSA does on an annual basis. The 2018 numbers are not out so patience is called for. It is fundamentally wrong to cherry pick when fleet numbers need to be studied for the calendar year:
https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/usdot-releases-2016-fatal-traffic-crash-data
Summary
We saw an even worse abuse of statistics with the 2009 "Bell the Hybrid Act":
http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/Prius_Fatal_Accidents/prius_fatalities_2001_07.html
Based on some poor statistical analysis, all hybrids and EVs have to send an audio alert at speeds under 25 mph. Sad to say, the data shows a problem with "A" pillar obscuring pedestrians in turns.
Bob Wilson
Last edited:
Martin Williams
Active Member
What on earth does that mean? Sounds like nonsense to me, but perhaps you'd like to clarify exactly what point you are trying to make.
David Green
Well-Known Member
Yes, but I think that is a bit of a nonsense statistic since dragging down the average is many inexpensive cars, and 1972 Pinto's.... (joking) Lets compare Tesla fatalities with Cadillac, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, comparable priced cars...
Jonathan. One of the things that came up in you video was the for-profit utility industry and its Ronald Coace type scam for private local monopolies being for-profit and trying to pass their losses on to the public for incredibly stupid investments in petrol that they and their investors should be forced to eat. On the one hand these firms may claim they can't afford pensions but when solar comes along and creates competition for these non competing parasitic private for-profit monopolies that went with the corrupt Coace model instead of the Hoteling at-cost public sector model, these same firms they think they can force their useless counter productive profit on the public. This is beyond wrong its is outright criminal theft, we shouldn't be doing this stuff with bonds either we should be doing it with taxes. Reminds me of firms that run diesel trains thinking they can gas people out and keep them up at all hours of the night- can't wait for Tesla to put them under, hoping local municipalities get the guts to just dig up their tracks and injunction them and tell them to piss off- its time to enforce law against criminals and fraud.
And again being a Tesla critic is just down right stupid on a Darwin award level or Romney loser level- sits their complaining about tiny green subsidies while avoiding useless petrol fuel energy subsidies as big as the defense budget. Jim Chanos- another billionaire idiot, what kind of fool do you have to be? Buffet was pretty bad too with the Nevada action- but he is in with Gates both to protect useless petrol apparently- Gates was whining about the state of petrol, but while Buffet invests in BYD and while Lutz invests in his electric truck company both have been nasty with Tesla.
And again being a Tesla critic is just down right stupid on a Darwin award level or Romney loser level- sits their complaining about tiny green subsidies while avoiding useless petrol fuel energy subsidies as big as the defense budget. Jim Chanos- another billionaire idiot, what kind of fool do you have to be? Buffet was pretty bad too with the Nevada action- but he is in with Gates both to protect useless petrol apparently- Gates was whining about the state of petrol, but while Buffet invests in BYD and while Lutz invests in his electric truck company both have been nasty with Tesla.
Last edited by a moderator:
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
I will add:
"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." -- Mark Twain
"Never wrestle with a pig. You just get dirty and the pig enjoys it." -- anonymous
Of course, I do argue with Martin... far too much, my friends on this forum advise. So do as I say, not as I do!
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
David Green has apparently made it his mission in life to convince everyone that nothing Tesla claims is true. If we wait two years, I'm sure he'll just come up with another excuse to ignore the compelling evidence we have that Tesla's cars are more than twice as safe as gasmobiles when it comes to car fires.
There is no rational reason to believe that older BEVs are going to be significantly more prone to fires than newer BEVs. The powertrain in a BEV doesn't deteriorate nearly as fast as it does in a gasmobile, so there is no rational reason to believe the danger of fire will increase significantly. Now, it might be rational to claim that older BEVs might suffer from deterioration in the electrical system, and that might lead to more fires. That would be at least a rational argument. But sadly for the BEV haters, there is an utter lack of evidence to support that claim.
Claiming that the data we have is skewed is merely another case of EV-bashing from diehard Tesla bashers and/or EV bashers, and is worthy of nothing but being ignored for the FUD it is.
Martin Williams
Active Member
It seems that this video sees any criticism of Tesla, justified or not, as tantamount to blasphemy. Whoever produced it needs to sit down quietly and think through, very carefully, why they felt motivated to do it.
As it stands it is risible. If you have to tell people to go out and defend a product, that is a clear indication that it needs defending - in other words, there is something wrong about it.
As it stands it is risible. If you have to tell people to go out and defend a product, that is a clear indication that it needs defending - in other words, there is something wrong about it.
TalkTesla
New Member
Not sure what's hard to understand. You tried to suggest my point regarding Tesla vehicles being far safer than avg is ridiculous. Just because certain models from specific automakers have 0 deaths does not make my point false.
TalkTesla
New Member
Not any criticism, just criticisms that are malicious and erroneous. Examples from my video include:
- The article from Dana Hull where Musk is incinerating cash.
- Articles covering a crash where they include 'Tesla' in the headline with no additional context
- Jim Chanos suggesting that TSLA equity is worth $0
Martin Williams
Active Member
Well, last year Musk lost $20,000 a vehicle. If that's not incinerating cash I don't know what is. This year indications are even less optimistic.
If you are going to publicise Tesla cars with massive presentations with lasers and hooting cheering fans, and maintain as high a level of personal publicity as Musk then you can expect the name of the car to be mentioned as often in bad news as in good.
I don't know Jim Chanos or his reasons for thinking it is worthless, but if he is not prepared to buy stock at any cost, then it IS worth $0 to him. It is worth $0 to me to, as I am not interested either. Not because I think the company is worthless - although if it goes pop it will be - but because I simply don't need or want to invest in it.
What I find objectionable about your video is the impression that the quality of the cars can be damaged by criticism (justified or not) and those pointing out faults are somehow unbelievers who need to be howled down by squads of fans. It is rather like encouragement to join a lynch-mob.
If you are going to publicise Tesla cars with massive presentations with lasers and hooting cheering fans, and maintain as high a level of personal publicity as Musk then you can expect the name of the car to be mentioned as often in bad news as in good.
I don't know Jim Chanos or his reasons for thinking it is worthless, but if he is not prepared to buy stock at any cost, then it IS worth $0 to him. It is worth $0 to me to, as I am not interested either. Not because I think the company is worthless - although if it goes pop it will be - but because I simply don't need or want to invest in it.
What I find objectionable about your video is the impression that the quality of the cars can be damaged by criticism (justified or not) and those pointing out faults are somehow unbelievers who need to be howled down by squads of fans. It is rather like encouragement to join a lynch-mob.
TalkTesla
New Member
The media I accuse are not pointing out faults. Consumer Reports recently pointed out a fault regarding the braking system and Musk is responding rapidly to address the issue. That is the type of fault that should be pointed out by the media and is very fair to do so. What is not fair is to create falsehoods and promote them as truths. BS must be called on nonsense of this nature. No one is suggesting that fans 'cheer-through' real problems with the vehicles. One of the best reasons to like the company is Musk's willingness to acknowledge problems and rapidly address them, just like the CR issue.
Martin Williams
Active Member
Even if this were true - and often what you claim is bullshit is not - I don't see its anyone's business except Tesla's and the alleged bullshitter.
Calling on the faithful to drive out blasphemers may be justified in a religious sect. In complaints by some commentators about the products of a car company it simply isn't. In fact, it is ridiculous, and just a bit pathetic.
Calling on the faithful to drive out blasphemers may be justified in a religious sect. In complaints by some commentators about the products of a car company it simply isn't. In fact, it is ridiculous, and just a bit pathetic.