My New Tesla Invention

[David Green]

The media I accuse are not pointing out faults. Consumer Reports recently pointed out a fault regarding the braking system and Musk is responding rapidly to address the issue. That is the type of fault that should be pointed out by the media and is very fair to do so. What is not fair is to create falsehoods and promote them as truths. BS must be called on nonsense of this nature. No one is suggesting that fans 'cheer-through' real problems with the vehicles. One of the best reasons to like the company is Musk's willingness to acknowledge problems and rapidly address them, just like the CR issue.

Model 3 braking problems should not have ever shipped, that for sure should have been caught in testing by any regular automaker. Model 3 back seat, can that terrible design be fixed OTA?

Tesla does indeed burn money, you can spin all you want, but their loss last year of 2B was all from operations, There was additional CapEx cash burn above the 2B, and also substantial debt added. I am very clear and understand how to read a financial statement and balance sheet, perhaps we can compare notes if you think Tesla's losses are attributed to CapEx spending? As of April 1 2018, Tesla still owed nearly 1.9B in "other current liabilities" that are (plant equipment, robots, and other items that will be classified CapEx) for the Model 3 ramp. In addition to their over 2B Accounts Payable. Tesla was structurally bankrupt at the and of Q1 2018 in that current liabilities exceed current assets. Tesla is now living on cash float, and increased debt, which is the same as saying "borrowed time" unless the negative free cash flow is stopped and stopped quickly. Thats just the facts...

 

[bwilson4web]

The media I accuse are not pointing out faults. Consumer Reports recently pointed out a fault regarding the braking system and Musk is responding rapidly to address the issue. That is the type of fault that should be pointed out by the media and is very fair to do so. What is not fair is to create falsehoods and promote them as truths. BS must be called on nonsense of this nature. No one is suggesting that fans 'cheer-through' real problems with the vehicles. One of the best reasons to like the company is Musk's willingness to acknowledge problems and rapidly address them, just like the CR issue.

By happy accident, Autoline Daily put their transcript up early (it happens):

DON’T SHOOT THE MESSENGER
Tesla has been in the news for all the wrong reasons lately and that prompted CEO Elon Musk to fire off a series of tweets yesterday criticizing the media for its coverage of the company. He said the media is negative because of advertising money from big oil and traditional car companies. He also criticized the media for comparing his media attacks to Trump’s Twitter tirades. Apparently he doesn’t believe in the phrase “don’t shoot the messenger.”​

When I clicked the link, the most calm statement, a 'tweet' came up:

Elon Musk
Verified account
@elonmusk
Follow Follow @elonmusk

Problem is journos are under constant pressure to get max clicks & earn advertising dollars or get fired. Tricky situation, as Tesla doesn’t advertise, but fossil fuel companies & gas/diesel car companies are among world’s biggest advertisers.

11:59 AM - 23 May 2018​

Autoline Daily is inflating a mole hill into a mountain. If someone takes offense at this given the nonsense spouted by others, they are too sensitive.

Bob Wilson

 

[Martin Williams]

The pretence that ANY criticism of Tesla and its methods or products is malicously inspired or for some other reason is unjustified is mildly irritating. Some is, some isn't. I see no justification for ordinary folk to 'defend' the company from bullshit. It is perfectly capable of doing this itself.

Tesla seem to manage the media rather well, some would say TOO well. I find Musk an unconvincing figure, personally, but that's just my opinion. Clearly there are millions who believe he can do no wrong, and perhaps they are right. Time will tell. I suspect if the company DOES go pop, its current besotted fans will be amongst the first to say "I told you so all along..."

 

[David Green]

By happy accident, Autoline Daily put their transcript up early (it happens):

DON’T SHOOT THE MESSENGER
Tesla has been in the news for all the wrong reasons lately and that prompted CEO Elon Musk to fire off a series of tweets yesterday criticizing the media for its coverage of the company. He said the media is negative because of advertising money from big oil and traditional car companies. He also criticized the media for comparing his media attacks to Trump’s Twitter tirades. Apparently he doesn’t believe in the phrase “don’t shoot the messenger.”​

When I clicked the link, the most calm statement, a 'tweet' came up:

Elon Musk
Verified account
@elonmusk
Follow Follow @elonmusk

Problem is journos are under constant pressure to get max clicks & earn advertising dollars or get fired. Tricky situation, as Tesla doesn’t advertise, but fossil fuel companies & gas/diesel car companies are among world’s biggest advertisers.

11:59 AM - 23 May 2018​

Autoline Daily is inflating a mole hill into a mountain. If someone takes offense at this given the nonsense spouted by others, they are too sensitive.

Bob Wilson

Elon Musk has been very defensive, almost desperate recently. He deserves criticism, their cars lack reliability, they miss all their production targets, and then make excuses, their cars seem to have more fires then other EV's and lack what should be standard safety testing. When Consumer Reports reported the braking problem, and Tesla verified the issue, a stop sell order should have been immediately issued on Tesla Model 3's until the issue is understood, and a repair is implemented. 20' discrepancies in braking distance are a serious safety issue. Instead Tesla just goes on with business as usual, and Elon sends some tweets... The legal liability of operating this way is going to catch up with Tesla at some point....

 

[Martin Williams]

It is said by Musk to be a 'firmware' fix which can be updated easily, so I guess if these cars are internet linked it is easy and cheap to do.

I'm not sure if this is standard practice in these whizz-bang cars, but this implies that there is a computer transferring your foot on the brake to the actual brakes, which find a little worrying. If I need to stamp on them, hard, there is probably a good reason for doing so, and I want the brakes applied without any algorithm in the way. What happens if this firmware gets hacked, or goes wrong and actually makes braking worse?

The brakes on my cars have - I believe - power assistance that is all mechanical and as dumb as a brick. If I hit the brake and the power assistance fails, then the brakes still work except with less force - I would have to stamp really hard. Simple, effective, and it has never gone wrong in any car I've had. I believe also that the ABS systems are designed so that if they fail, the braking is not affected.

Perhaps someone can explain why a computer in the loop between me and the brakes is an improvement on this? Perhaps the brakes issue is worth looking at a little more deeply, possibly in another thread?

 

[bwilson4web]

Elon Musk has been very defensive, almost desperate recently. He deserves criticism, their cars lack reliability, they miss all their production targets, and then make excuses, their cars seem to have more fires then other EV's and lack what should be standard safety testing.

I'm not seeing a flood of Tesla returns. Just the ordinary depreciation and used Teslas on eBay. Do you have a source showing wide spread rejections of Teslas?

When Consumer Reports reported the braking problem, and Tesla verified the issue, a stop sell order should have been immediately issued on Tesla Model 3's until the issue is understood, and a repair is implemented. 20' discrepancies in braking distance are a serious safety issue. Instead Tesla just goes on with business as usual, and Elon sends some tweets... The legal liability of operating this way is going to catch up with Tesla at some point....

Those of us who drive hybrids and EVs maximize regenerative braking and drive conservatively so ABS braking is seldom engaged. In contrast, Consumer Reports tests ordinary cars that lack regenerative braking. So CR uses maximum stops that engage the ABS and the first worked great.

Drivers of hybrid and EV cars seldom brake to ABS. So a 'stop sell' really wasn't needed. Heck, there wasn't even a call to keep the cars parked. Of course ordinary car drivers haven't a clue.

Bob Wilson

 

[JyChevyVolt]

I'm not seeing a flood of Tesla returns. Just the ordinary depreciation and used Teslas on eBay. Do you have a source showing wide spread rejections of Teslas?

Those of us who drive hybrids and EVs maximize regenerative braking and drive conservatively so ABS braking is seldom engaged. In contrast, Consumer Reports tests ordinary cars that lack regenerative braking. So CR uses maximum stops that engage the ABS and the first worked great.

Drivers of hybrid and EV cars seldom brake to ABS. So a 'stop sell' really wasn't needed. Heck, there wasn't even a call to keep the cars parked. Of course ordinary car drivers haven't a clue.

Bob Wilson

Well Tesla cars are not normal EVs. Tesla don't make slow cars. You build a fast car, make sure you got great brakes.

I see no reason why anyone who defend a company unless their livelihood depends on them.

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

It seems that this video sees any criticism of Tesla, justified or not, as tantamount to blasphemy. Whoever produced it needs to sit down quietly and think through, very carefully, why they felt motivated to do it.

That might be better coming from someone who was not -- as you are and were, Martin -- a very prolific and vocal EV basher, and dedicated supporter of "clean diesel" on the (now defunct) TheEEStory forum; and now that that "clean diesel" has been exposed as a fraud, is now a very prolific and vocal BEV basher on this forum, and dedicated supporter of the "hydrogen economy" hoax.

If you have to tell people to go out and defend a product, that is a clear indication that it needs defending - in other words, there is something wrong about it.

As they say: "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you."

In the case of Tesla Inc., there very definitely are a lot of people out to discredit them for base motives, greedy stock short-sellers or those with anti-"green" political agendas or those jealous of Elon Musk's many successes, or all of the above; people who hope Tesla will go bankrupt... and keep predicting it will in the hope that if they predict it often enough it will come true!

Perhaps you know one of those people rather intimately, Martin. In fact, one might suggest you see one of them every time you look in the mirror.

​

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

I see no reason why anyone who defend a company unless their livelihood depends on them.

Translation: Your motive for all your Tesla bashing is that your income depends on Chevrolet, and you -- correctly -- see Tesla as a long-term threat to Chevrolet. Therefore, you would like to believe that everyone who posts in favor of Tesla must have a similar greed-based motive. You are not willing to believe that anyone might -- like me -- have an entirely altruistic reason for supporting the EV revolution and the one company doing more than everyone else in the world put together to advance that EV revolution!

I take it you've never been to a car show, so you've never met anyone who is a true fan of cars just because they love cars? Do you actually think everyone who pays to get into a car show does so only because they get paid by the automotive industry?

I feel sorry for you, dude, but the world doesn't require your belief to operate as it does. But then, I've come to believe that most people, if not all, have dearly cherished delusions they are not willing to let go of, no matter how much evidence against it they are presented with.

​

 

[David Green]

Well Tesla cars are not normal EVs. Tesla don't make slow cars. You build a fast car, make sure you got great brakes.

I see no reason why anyone who defend a company unless their livelihood depends on them.

Interestingly Corvette Stingray, Z06, and ZR1 are on the list of cars with the lowest insurance claim numbers... haha! That really surprised me.

 

[David Green]

I'm not seeing a flood of Tesla returns. Just the ordinary depreciation and used Teslas on eBay. Do you have a source showing wide spread rejections of Teslas?

Those of us who drive hybrids and EVs maximize regenerative braking and drive conservatively so ABS braking is seldom engaged. In contrast, Consumer Reports tests ordinary cars that lack regenerative braking. So CR uses maximum stops that engage the ABS and the first worked great.

Drivers of hybrid and EV cars seldom brake to ABS. So a 'stop sell' really wasn't needed. Heck, there wasn't even a call to keep the cars parked. Of course ordinary car drivers haven't a clue.

Bob Wilson

All cars should have the panic stop brake test and certified... They are not testing for everyday use, its for that one time you really need it...

 

[JyChevyVolt]

Translation: Your motive for all your Tesla bashing is that your income depends on Chevrolet, and you -- correctly -- see Tesla as a long-term threat to Chevrolet. Therefore, you would like to believe that everyone who posts in favor of Tesla must have a similar greed-based motive. You are not willing to believe that anyone might -- like me -- have an entirely altruistic reason for supporting the EV revolution and the one company doing more than everyone else in the world put together to advance that EV revolution!

I take it you've never been to a car show, so you've never met anyone who is a true fan of cars just because they love cars? Do you actually think everyone who pays to get into a car show does so only because they get paid by the automotive industry?

I feel sorry for you, dude, but the world doesn't require your belief to operate as it does. But then, I've come to believe that most people, if not all, have dearly cherished delusions they are not willing to let go of, no matter how much evidence against it they are presented with.

​

Third, the Chevy volt is a crippled hybrid with rear seats for midgets and so so mpg for road trip. I got 33 mpg on a 900 mile road trip. The Honda Civic gets over 40 mpg. The Volt will go down as the ultimate compromised vehicle.

GM honkers kill me. At least Tesla fanbois worship a good company.

Your such an idiot.

 

[JyChevyVolt]

First, the bolt and Kona is not the same because one has a crippled DCFC which limits it to a glorified city car. Anyone who has taken a road trip on that crippled EV will understand what I'm talking about.

Does that sound like a GM investor?

Unlike you, I actually own a plug-in hybrid, BEV, and will get a FCV. Unless you have owned one yourself, you'll never understand the strength and weakness of EVs. No amount of reading will prepare you for turtle mode.

 

[David Green]

Your such an idiot.

I ignored Pu-Pu, it just makes life easier and more peaceful...

 

[bwilson4web]

All cars should have the panic stop brake test and certified... They are not testing for everyday use, its for that one time you really need it...

I have no problem with that since according to Wiki, it is part of the NHTSA regulations since 2013. However the NHTSA like the EPA does not test every make and model. The do crash testing but apparently this does not include ABS testing. Rather the NHTSA depends on user reports. When you get a chance, read the NHTSA web page on how safety issues are addressed:
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

As Elon has pointed out, there is a problem on the second and subsequent stops and they are working on a fix.

Being a 13 year member of the hybrid and EV community, we maximize use of regenerative braking which is the antithesis of ABS triggered braking. In fact, the automatic braking systems on our BMW i3-REx and Prius Prime flash "BRAKE" with enough lead time to allow strong but not panicked ABS braking to work.

Bob Wilson

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

Does that sound like a GM investor?

Well actually I was guessing you are an employee of GM or a company dependent on that company, but I'm happy to see I'm wrong about that.

So I did not correctly identify your motive for all the Tesla bashing you did when you first joined this forum. That's on me for jumping to a conclusion. And if your more recent comments about Tesla aren't so negative... then perhaps you've demonstrated you're capable of learning, unlike two or three other Usual Suspects here.

I actually... will get a FCV.

You're planning to buy a fool cell car, really?

Perhaps the next time you're tempted to say "You're* such an idiot", you should consider the following;

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? -- Matthew 7:3-5 (KJV)

*Well actually you misspelled it, but who's counting, right?

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

I ignored Pu-Pu, it just makes life easier and more peaceful...

It certainly does make this forum more peaceful, so thank you.

​

 

[JyChevyVolt]

Well actually I was guessing you are an employee of GM or a company dependent on that company, but I'm happy to see I'm wrong about that.

I have supplier discount from almost every automaker. We also supply Tesla and SpaceX but they don't give discounts.

I have no loyalty when in comes to automaker. They are just another greedy corporation including Tesla.