In indianapolis and my quote was like $159 ... havent done it yet. That was just for the brake fluid portion --7 in MM
MM 0 1 7 Brake Fluid Change
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Some clarification here:
Bleeding air from the system after major ABS components are replaced is a complicated, multi-step process (some cars require dealer-only diagnostic tools to run pumps in bleed mode).
Flushing brake fluid every 2 or 3 years is vastly different, unless you actually introduce air into the ABS system. Otherwise, flushing brake fluid simple and comparable on all cars.
Showing you the pump replacement bleed process was unrelated to fluid flushing.
megreyhair
Active Member
@JKroll, does the brake fluid in the 2nd reservoir look as clear as the main reservoir?
no idea. dealer did the job.
Robert_Alabama
Well-Known Member
Just had the 017 service here in Alabama. $110 for brake service, total with oil change and taxes was $180. The dealer covered my first two years of maintenance, so this is my first cost for maintenance...
Rajiv Vaidyanathan
Active Member
You folks are all making me angrier about my $289 bill for the A017 service. :-(
I know, I know. Sunk cost.
Robert_Alabama
Well-Known Member
@Rajiv Vaidyanathan , it was not my intention to stoke your anger. I think generally things are just a little less expensive in Alabama. I like the dealer I bought the Honda from. So far they have been pretty easy to deal with. If it does help your anger any, my first bill instead of $180, was like $215. When I looked at it, they had charged me something like $30 for tire rotation. I had already looked at the car before I went in to pay and had just put new tires on the front and was pretty sure they were still on the front, so I told them I didn't think they had rotated the tires. Walked back out to the car with the service manager, and sure enough new tires were still on the front. Service manager apologized and they took it off the bill. Not sure if they had just planned to rotate the tires and saw that the new tires were on the front and thought "no need" and never took it off the bill, or they just forgot to do it, but regardless it shows that they aren't perfect and it's a good idea to always somewhat check what you are paying for. I should have asked exactly what they planned to do ahead of time and nixed the tire rotation preemptively, but it worked out ok.
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
I am bringing this thread back because this "7" just popped up for me.
There was some debate when this was discussed above about the proper procedure for replacing the brake fluid.
I have attached the Clarity procedure.
It is indeed a 2-step bleeding procedure, but both steps are rather straight-forward, and bleeding takes place just like in the old days (having an assistant pump the brakes while bleeding from each caliper). The difference between the 1st and 2nd stage is simply that the vehicle is ON, and then the vehicle is OFF. This apparently routes the fluid through two different paths. The procedure is very specific about achieving the OFF state.
There is nothing mentioned about bleeding a 2nd reservoir, the Tandem Motor, Pedal Feel, or anything else...
All-in-all, seems pretty easy. I plan to go through this within a few weeks, and will report back if I find anything unique.
Has anyone actually done this themselves?
There was some debate when this was discussed above about the proper procedure for replacing the brake fluid.
I have attached the Clarity procedure.
It is indeed a 2-step bleeding procedure, but both steps are rather straight-forward, and bleeding takes place just like in the old days (having an assistant pump the brakes while bleeding from each caliper). The difference between the 1st and 2nd stage is simply that the vehicle is ON, and then the vehicle is OFF. This apparently routes the fluid through two different paths. The procedure is very specific about achieving the OFF state.
There is nothing mentioned about bleeding a 2nd reservoir, the Tandem Motor, Pedal Feel, or anything else...
All-in-all, seems pretty easy. I plan to go through this within a few weeks, and will report back if I find anything unique.
Has anyone actually done this themselves?
lessismore
Member
I consider myself a DIY car guy but one thing I usually leave to the dealer is brake fluid change - they have machine to do a precise bleed from all four wheels simultaneously without me making a mess on my garage floor or leaving bubbles in the line. This is one of the cost effective services that I would go to my dealership for. If you could tackle it yourself, more power to you. I know folks doing their own DIY is going for enjoyment, not just for savings.
This Spring I changed out the brake fluid in my 2018 Clarity purchased in February, 2018. I did the brake fluid replacement without help using a vacuum bleeder device. Everything worked our great. The pedal feeling and braking was the same afterward as before.
The only thing I did a bit out of the simplest method was to jack up the car (using the front and rear center jack points) and to place it all four wheels off the floor on jack stands (at the four jacking points). This made it easier as all four wheels could be removed at the same time.
LeoP
The only thing I did a bit out of the simplest method was to jack up the car (using the front and rear center jack points) and to place it all four wheels off the floor on jack stands (at the four jacking points). This made it easier as all four wheels could be removed at the same time.
LeoP
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
Thanks! Good timing. Coming up on 3 years and planning soon this as a project some rainy/snowy day.
Two things…
1) Here’s the order given: “Bleed the brake system in the following order: front-driver's, front-passenger's, rear-passenger's and rear-driver's.” I assume Honda has a reason, but standard practice is usually opposite, starting with the most distant caliper from the master cylinder first. Weird.
2) I have a Harbor Freight vacuum brake bleeder that hooks up to an air hose to suck the fluid out from the bleed screw. Shown below doing the deed on a motorcycle. Any reason this wouldn’t work in place of pumping the brake pedal?
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
@Fast Eddie B ,
1. The order of bleeding - Yes, this seems opposite of the old-school method, but I believe there are reasons for it. I have seen multiple examples of this sequence when browsing around looking specifically for flushing procedures, and it seems to be 'correct'
2. This is just my opinion, but I will stick with the brake pumping. My rationale stems from the nature of this 2-stage procedure. The thought is that the procedure is set up in such a way that the fluid goes through two different different paths with the two-step process. If you draw the fluid out, it may not necessarily follow the desired paths.
I also plan to empty the reservoir before starting (not mentioned in the procedure). This is typical to prevent mixing old with new at the start. Your vacuum tool would be good for that.
This is not rocket science, an doing something is better than doing nothing, but as long as I have the wheels off and have dedicated the time, I plan to follow the Honda procedure.
1. The order of bleeding - Yes, this seems opposite of the old-school method, but I believe there are reasons for it. I have seen multiple examples of this sequence when browsing around looking specifically for flushing procedures, and it seems to be 'correct'
2. This is just my opinion, but I will stick with the brake pumping. My rationale stems from the nature of this 2-stage procedure. The thought is that the procedure is set up in such a way that the fluid goes through two different different paths with the two-step process. If you draw the fluid out, it may not necessarily follow the desired paths.
I also plan to empty the reservoir before starting (not mentioned in the procedure). This is typical to prevent mixing old with new at the start. Your vacuum tool would be good for that.
This is not rocket science, an doing something is better than doing nothing, but as long as I have the wheels off and have dedicated the time, I plan to follow the Honda procedure.
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megreyhair
Active Member
I have a vacuum pump bleeder too. But I dont think that will work for our car since there are 2 distinct system. I have to agree with others that there must be a good reason why Honda instructions specified pumping the brakes instead of vacuuming it out. Pumping it required 2 people which would cost dealer extra $$$ for the procedure.
Clarity_Newbie
Active Member
I've managed to exchange brake fluid in 2 Clarity's using the vacuum method with no repercussions.
You are kidding yourself if you believe all dealerships use the two man method for brake fluid exchange...vacuum method is very common. Surely some do but they are in the minority. Unfortunately so is just removing, then replacing, the fluid in the reservoir and calling it a day in the mo shady dealerships.
If you choose the two person method...great...tried and true method which works fine.
As @MrFixit suggested...removing the old, and replace with new, fluid in the reservoir before beginning is advised regardless of fluid exchange method chosen.
The one interesting thing I found on both...the bleeding screws on the rear required ~3 turns to open enough to allow for fluid to run easily...as any DYI'er knows...every other car I've done requires only a 1/4 to 1/2 turn..cra cra.
What I chose to do on both Clarities was to go around the horn twice using the sequence suggested by @Fast Eddie B to ensure maximum fluid replacement. First run drew new fluid...second run was short n sweet to ensure clear fluid.
Worst part for me was jacking up the car and tire removal/putting back on...rest is easy peasy.
Good luck.
You are kidding yourself if you believe all dealerships use the two man method for brake fluid exchange...vacuum method is very common. Surely some do but they are in the minority. Unfortunately so is just removing, then replacing, the fluid in the reservoir and calling it a day in the mo shady dealerships.
If you choose the two person method...great...tried and true method which works fine.
As @MrFixit suggested...removing the old, and replace with new, fluid in the reservoir before beginning is advised regardless of fluid exchange method chosen.
The one interesting thing I found on both...the bleeding screws on the rear required ~3 turns to open enough to allow for fluid to run easily...as any DYI'er knows...every other car I've done requires only a 1/4 to 1/2 turn..cra cra.
What I chose to do on both Clarities was to go around the horn twice using the sequence suggested by @Fast Eddie B to ensure maximum fluid replacement. First run drew new fluid...second run was short n sweet to ensure clear fluid.
Worst part for me was jacking up the car and tire removal/putting back on...rest is easy peasy.
Good luck.
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
Just reporting back after I went through the brake fluid replacement process today. I have encountered a problem along the way.
I followed the procedure posted in #49 above, using the two person old-fashioned way.
I was measuring the fluid I removed to be sure I didn't run the reservoir too low, and to insure I had enough new fluid.
It was not perfectly clear to me when the new fluid reached a given wheel (because the original fluid looked pretty good)... So again, measuring the amount seemed to be useful to me.
1. Initially was able to remove 9 oz. of old fluid from the master cylinder with a vacuum extractor. Filled it back up with new.
2. Proceeded to bleed with the vehicle ON in the sequence provided. I removed ~ 3 oz from each front bleeder, and ~ 4 oz. from each rear, replenishing after each wheel.
3. Went through the entire sequence again with the vehicle OFF for 3 minutes, per procedure. Again removed ~3 oz from each front bleeder, and ~ 4 oz. from each rear, replenishing after each wheel.
I had purchased 3 bottles of Honda fluid (12 oz. each). Both rounds will have bled a total of 28 ounces, and I figured 36 was enough. I neglected to consider the initial 9 oz from the master, and I was sweating it out. In the end, I had just enough new fluid.
When done, there are now several warning messages (RDM, ACC errors, and the "Brake System" indicator is on too). I was certain that I did everything properly, and never ran anywhere close to low level in the master. Reading the procedure again, it states this:
"Because brake fluid is replaced with the vehicle in ON mode, the brake system indicator is turned on. The brake sytem indicator goes off by depressing the brake pedal for about 3 seconds".
I was hoping that the RDM and ACC errors were related to the brake warning indicator. So, I did the 3-second thing, crossing my fingers. No dice however. The "Brake System" indicator remains on continuously. I am not sure what to make of this. The brakes are functioning normally from what I can tell. The master cylinder is full. I am not sure how RDM and ACC could be related. Lacking a better idea, I tried the "cold boot" disconnecting the 12V battery, but the problem persists. @Clarity_Newbie - I assume you didn't encounter this with your vaccum method (presumably because you weren't replacing fluid with the vehicle ON?)
To be clear, these are the warning indictors that are now on:
Suggestions are welcome... I will post any progress with this one.
I followed the procedure posted in #49 above, using the two person old-fashioned way.
I was measuring the fluid I removed to be sure I didn't run the reservoir too low, and to insure I had enough new fluid.
It was not perfectly clear to me when the new fluid reached a given wheel (because the original fluid looked pretty good)... So again, measuring the amount seemed to be useful to me.
1. Initially was able to remove 9 oz. of old fluid from the master cylinder with a vacuum extractor. Filled it back up with new.
2. Proceeded to bleed with the vehicle ON in the sequence provided. I removed ~ 3 oz from each front bleeder, and ~ 4 oz. from each rear, replenishing after each wheel.
3. Went through the entire sequence again with the vehicle OFF for 3 minutes, per procedure. Again removed ~3 oz from each front bleeder, and ~ 4 oz. from each rear, replenishing after each wheel.
I had purchased 3 bottles of Honda fluid (12 oz. each). Both rounds will have bled a total of 28 ounces, and I figured 36 was enough. I neglected to consider the initial 9 oz from the master, and I was sweating it out. In the end, I had just enough new fluid.
When done, there are now several warning messages (RDM, ACC errors, and the "Brake System" indicator is on too). I was certain that I did everything properly, and never ran anywhere close to low level in the master. Reading the procedure again, it states this:
"Because brake fluid is replaced with the vehicle in ON mode, the brake system indicator is turned on. The brake sytem indicator goes off by depressing the brake pedal for about 3 seconds".
I was hoping that the RDM and ACC errors were related to the brake warning indicator. So, I did the 3-second thing, crossing my fingers. No dice however. The "Brake System" indicator remains on continuously. I am not sure what to make of this. The brakes are functioning normally from what I can tell. The master cylinder is full. I am not sure how RDM and ACC could be related. Lacking a better idea, I tried the "cold boot" disconnecting the 12V battery, but the problem persists. @Clarity_Newbie - I assume you didn't encounter this with your vaccum method (presumably because you weren't replacing fluid with the vehicle ON?)
To be clear, these are the warning indictors that are now on:
Suggestions are welcome... I will post any progress with this one.
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Does the OBDII port shed any light on the problem? Can it reset the warning indicators? Would you feel comfortable if you reset the warning indicators and they didn't come back on?
I haven't changed brake fluid in 30 years and my intimidation by the Clarity's brake system appears justified. I saw the nipple on the brake cylinder when I put on the winter tires/rims yesterday and said to myself, "I'll never be touching that!"
I haven't changed brake fluid in 30 years and my intimidation by the Clarity's brake system appears justified. I saw the nipple on the brake cylinder when I put on the winter tires/rims yesterday and said to myself, "I'll never be touching that!"
When I replaced the brake fluid in our 2018 Clarity, I used the vacuum method. I followed all of the Honda instructions making two rounds with the vehicle turned on then again with the Clarity turned off. I had no warning lights of any kind when I was done.
I find interesting that MrFixit was able to suck out the old fluid in the master cylinder (upper?) reservoir. I was not able to easily remove the blocking screen. However, there is also a lower reservoir so I did not worry about emptying either reservoir. I just sucked out fluid from the first wheel until the upper reservoir was about empty. Then I refilled the reservoir and sucked fluid from the first wheel again until the reservoir was again nearly empty. After a refill, I proceeded normally with the other three calipers and then again for all four with the Clarity turned off.
Some have thought that the vacuum bleeding method might not exchange the fluid in the tandem motor cylinder and the pedal force simulator (as well as not fully exchanging the fluid in the master cylinder). Looking over the diagram of the FIT electro-servo braking system the insightman posted a while back, leads me to believe the the on/off sequence opens (and then closes) both the master cylinder valves and the pedal force simulator valves so that all the braking hydraulic circuits have their fluid exchanged with the vacuum method.
Just my two cents, LeoP
I find interesting that MrFixit was able to suck out the old fluid in the master cylinder (upper?) reservoir. I was not able to easily remove the blocking screen. However, there is also a lower reservoir so I did not worry about emptying either reservoir. I just sucked out fluid from the first wheel until the upper reservoir was about empty. Then I refilled the reservoir and sucked fluid from the first wheel again until the reservoir was again nearly empty. After a refill, I proceeded normally with the other three calipers and then again for all four with the Clarity turned off.
Some have thought that the vacuum bleeding method might not exchange the fluid in the tandem motor cylinder and the pedal force simulator (as well as not fully exchanging the fluid in the master cylinder). Looking over the diagram of the FIT electro-servo braking system the insightman posted a while back, leads me to believe the the on/off sequence opens (and then closes) both the master cylinder valves and the pedal force simulator valves so that all the braking hydraulic circuits have their fluid exchanged with the vacuum method.
Just my two cents, LeoP
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
Haven't tried that, but it is on my list. Yes, I would be comfortable if it cleared and didn't come back. My comfort comes from the fact that the procedute states that this light was expected to come on. Just can't figure out why the 3-second brake depression won't clear it...
If this continues to ellude me, I will probably subscribe to the Honda's service manual site to see if that can help troubleshoot.
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MrFixit
Well-Known Member
Interesting - I had no trouble with that. It just came right out with my finger.
I suspect what you did is just as good as what I tried to do. There is no magic and it's possible that none of these methods exchanges 100% of the fluid and that's OK. The little bit that doesn't get exchanged is probably not exposed to moisture anyway.
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