Level 1 Charger - does it work on 240v?
- Thread starter Fidzio
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Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
I can't see how this could avoid being a fire hazard. For safety, home electrical wiring and circuits are supposed to be rated at 20% more amps than they carry during sustained power draw. If you are actually pulling more amps than a 110v circuit is rated for, then that is a serious fire hazard.
Just because one of your friends has -- so far -- been able to get away with it, does not mean it's safe. I rather doubt you know what the circuit he's using for charging is rated at, or how good the circuit breakers in his house are, or how robust the wiring is. You probably have no way of knowing if your house's wiring is built to the same standards.
You would be literally betting your car, your home (assuming it's attached to the garage), and possibly the lives of everyone living in your home, that this isn't actually a fire hazard.
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dstrauss
Well-Known Member
I have to agree with @KentuckyKen and @Pushmi-Pullyu - you're talking about putting your $30,000 plus vehicle at risk (not to mention your house) to save $400? If you really want the quick(er) charge, buy the real deal and don't mess with your electricity
As mentioned before, the EVSE is basically just a smart relay that sends the car a couple of minimal pieces of information. "Hey car, this is the maximum amount of amps you're allowed to take." "Hey car, this station is ready for you to start charging." "Hey car, this station doesn't meet ventilation requirements for charging lead acid batteries." Beyond that and a GFCI safety check, the whole box is kind of simple. If the internal components can work on 220, they can work on 220.
Now we know the LEAF charger didn't work on 220 without some modification because some individuals tried it and released the blue smoke spirit from the controller board. It sounds like the GM version is 110/220 compatible but just didn't come with a 220 cord. In no way am I recommending this, but if you stay under the amps the wiring in the cord and your wall is rated for, and the device is confirmed to work on 220, you probably won't break anything or burn anything down.
Having said that, if I was not personally inclined to this type of DIY work, I'd still much rather have someone like Ingineer (evseupgrade.com) do a professional conversion on it and replace the wiring and plug. He upgrades the plug and he updates the "control board" for higher charging levels. He is able to make the stock Honda EVSE do 20 amps at 220 volts safely. That's way better than the LEAF EVSE (16A) or the Chevy EVSE (12A) capability making it a pretty good value.
It does appear that he is charging significantly less for the Chevy conversion than others. My speculation is that it's the result of the Chevy being capable of 220 "as-is" and only requiring a plug upgrade and maybe some other minor changes. I know that the LEAF EVSE conversion required de-potting and some other really messy stuff to do the conversion correctly and the Honda conversion has a similar price so may require extensive work as well.
Now we know the LEAF charger didn't work on 220 without some modification because some individuals tried it and released the blue smoke spirit from the controller board. It sounds like the GM version is 110/220 compatible but just didn't come with a 220 cord. In no way am I recommending this, but if you stay under the amps the wiring in the cord and your wall is rated for, and the device is confirmed to work on 220, you probably won't break anything or burn anything down.
Having said that, if I was not personally inclined to this type of DIY work, I'd still much rather have someone like Ingineer (evseupgrade.com) do a professional conversion on it and replace the wiring and plug. He upgrades the plug and he updates the "control board" for higher charging levels. He is able to make the stock Honda EVSE do 20 amps at 220 volts safely. That's way better than the LEAF EVSE (16A) or the Chevy EVSE (12A) capability making it a pretty good value.
It does appear that he is charging significantly less for the Chevy conversion than others. My speculation is that it's the result of the Chevy being capable of 220 "as-is" and only requiring a plug upgrade and maybe some other minor changes. I know that the LEAF EVSE conversion required de-potting and some other really messy stuff to do the conversion correctly and the Honda conversion has a similar price so may require extensive work as well.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
To me, this is the key point. It's not clear to me how many amps the modified unit is pulling, but some of the comments above about faster than L1 charging lead me to believe the circuit must be pulling more amps than L1 charging normally does.
Even for L1 charging, I've read some comments that say you should have a licensed electrician check out the circuit you'll be using, to make sure it can safely handle sustained power draw. Not all home wiring is built to equal standards, especially with older homes. In some homes, even an L1 charger needs upgraded wiring for the circuit being used for charging.
In this case, if it's pulling more amps than normal L1 charging, then it seems pretty clear to me that this demands being checked out by a licensed electrician.
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bpratt
Active Member
The problem with releasing the blue smoke spirit is sometimes a surge is sent down the circuit that is used to communicate with the car. If that surge destroys the computer that controls charging in the car, you may have serious problems.
Exactly correct P-P. It is a pretty big load and continuous so it’s not something you want on your normal living room lamp circuit. There are plenty of stories of folks who had warm walls or worse from using the 120v EVSE. It’s another good reason to get an electrician out to run a dedicated circuit. While you’re at it, may as well make it a 240 and get yourself a nice clipper creek EVSE. Your going to thank yourself when you’re on your 3rd ev and your EVSE is still going strong.
Kendalf
Active Member
Just to clarify, you can charge faster with a 220/240V EVSE than at 120V even with the same or lower current.
Power = Voltage x Current
If you double the voltage that you are charging at (240V vs 120V) then you can achieve approximately the same charge rate using half the current.
Eg. 240V x 5 Amps = 120V x 10 Amps = 1.2kW Power.
And using the same current draw the 240 V EVSE can charge at approximately double the rate. So just because the EVSE can run at 220/240 V and charge faster doesn't mean that the current draw will be higher, which I believe is the point that AlanSqB was making. In fact, on my home OpenEVSE I have the current set at 10Amps, which is lower than what the stock Honda EVSE draws (12 Amps, I believe). But because it is on a 240V circuit it still charges significantly faster than the stock Honda EVSE.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the clarification!
Since I have no exposure to any formal education in electrical engineering, I really ought to learn not to wander into technical discussions of EV charging.
I realize that every EV charges at a different rate, but I see figures often cited for L1 charging at 12 amps, and L2 charging at 30 amps (altho Mr. Google indicates that L2 charging can be up to 80 amps). Or perhaps that only refers to EVSEs rated for L1 charging at up to 12 amps, and EVSEs rated for L2 charging at up to 30 amps.
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Kendalf
Active Member
AFAIK L1=120V while L2=220/240V, but the current is separate from the voltage. So you can have L2 charging at 10A. Generally 240V circuits are designed to handle higher currents which is why you tend to see higher currents being used for L2 charging, while the typical home 120V outlet uses a 15Amp breaker so is limited by the 80% rule to 12Amps continuous current.
Pushmi-Pullyu
Well-Known Member
Wow! I know even less about the subject than I realized. I didn't realize a typical American home was limited to 12 amps continuous draw even on a 220/240 volt, L2 charging circuit.
But I'm beginning to understand why so many new EV owners complain about the cost of needing to have their main electrical panel upgraded, to allow L2 charging at 20-30 amps.
Thanks again for your info dump, Kendalf!
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K8QM
Active Member
If anyone (who doesn't know already) wants an easy way to understand power is to draw a little triangle with P (power in watts) on top then I (current in amps) and V (voltage in volts) beside each other underneath. Cover up what you want to solve for and then divide or multiply as needed. P=IxV, I= P/V and V=P/I.
I think you misunderstood as to 240V. We recently put in an induction range that can pull as much as 40 amps@240V so we installed a 50A breaker and wiring 50 for 50 amps. Typically 120V outlets for lighting and rooms are 15A but 20A is becoming more common.
Another example of breaker sizing is when I wired our detached garage I have a 240V 100A breaker at the house end but only a 240V 60A sub panel in the garage so the total garage current is limited to 60A. I'll probably put in a 40A and limitany Level 2 charging now and in the future to 32A to give me plenty of leeway for other current draw in the garage.
geo
I think you misunderstood as to 240V. We recently put in an induction range that can pull as much as 40 amps@240V so we installed a 50A breaker and wiring 50 for 50 amps. Typically 120V outlets for lighting and rooms are 15A but 20A is becoming more common.
Another example of breaker sizing is when I wired our detached garage I have a 240V 100A breaker at the house end but only a 240V 60A sub panel in the garage so the total garage current is limited to 60A. I'll probably put in a 40A and limitany Level 2 charging now and in the future to 32A to give me plenty of leeway for other current draw in the garage.
geo
My 2 cents is.....get another cord rated for the L2 charging.
1) Even if some very knowledgeable person opens it up and says it will handle L2 do you really want to be that guinea pig? Are the internals in yours the same?
2) Let'say a fire does happen and it is due to a faulty cord that normally would have been good for L2 but bad work made is L1 ready only.
It is really too bad they don't ship with an L2 ready cord but it makes sense. T
1) Even if some very knowledgeable person opens it up and says it will handle L2 do you really want to be that guinea pig? Are the internals in yours the same?
2) Let'say a fire does happen and it is due to a faulty cord that normally would have been good for L2 but bad work made is L1 ready only.
It is really too bad they don't ship with an L2 ready cord but it makes sense. T
Atul Thakkar
Active Member
Can you tell me if you don't mind where did you bought from ? I was looking on Amazon and it comes around 440 USD , Thanks for your help.
Dana Mitchell
Member
He's out of town at the moment but a great guy. Any plug you need. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Level-2-EV...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Atul Thakkar
Active Member
Thanks
Several of my friends have Chevy Volts, and apparently it is common knowledge that the charger supplied with the Mk2 Volt, which has a normal 110v plug at the end, can be plugged in to a 240v outlet and thus provide faster charging than when connected to 110v.
The following link describes the Mk2 Volt car charger's ability to use 240v: http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?218442-2016-Volt-120v-EVSE-is-L1-L2-Conversion-Capable
This reduces the time to charge a Chevy Volt from approx 12 hrs (@110v) to approx 5 hrs (@240v).
I'm curious whether the Honda Clarity charger supplied with our cars works similarly, but I'm not brave enough to do an experiment myself.
I've uploaded two photos of the Clarity level 1 charger. View attachment 768 View attachment 769 View attachment 768
Any takers?
Or any non destructive information or analysis.
I currently drive a gen 2 Chevy Volt and I am one of the owners that use the charger “off label”. It is known in the Chevy Volt community that the stock gen 2 charger is rated for 110-240v. Some forum members actually disected the charger and it clearly states on the power supply that it is rated for 11-240v. In fact it is the same charger the Canadian market has.. What I have done is I got an electrician installa 240v 24amp in my garage. Then I made a 240v-110 3 prong dongle. Bam! Level 1.5 is what I call it. 16amp 240v.. charge time is down to 6hrs from 13 hrs.
Now I am interested on getting a Clarity... I am likewise curious of the stock charger capability..
KentuckyKen
Well-Known Member
The OEM supplied Level 1 EVSE is marked 110V, 12A so it should not be adapted to any higher voltage or used on any circuit smaller than 15 A. I do not think it is not the same situation as the old Volt EVSEs that can take 220V.
If you do, I can guarantee that if you have a disastrous event and your insurance company finds out you modified it, they will use it as an excuse to deny you coverage.
If you do, I can guarantee that if you have a disastrous event and your insurance company finds out you modified it, they will use it as an excuse to deny you coverage.
I read through all the previous posts and not a single person has confirmed that it will work. I would not try it without disassembling it and look to see if the parts were made for 240V. Keep your Volt's EVSE and use it with the Clarity.
I can confirm this trick works with the EVSE of my 2 PHEVs, Pacifica Hybrid and Prius Prime. Use at your own risk. I charge using my Level 2 ClipperCreek though.