Kona EV vs Model X P90DL

J

JyChevyVolt

Active Member
Kona using on 50kW charging station.
Model X using supercharger network in restricted mode (90kW).

~1000 km race.
Kona stopped twice to charge.
Model X stopped 5 times to charge.

The winner is Kona.
 
JyChevyVolt said:
Kona using on 50kW charging station.
Model X using supercharger network in restricted mode (90kW).

~1000 km race.
Kona stopped twice to charge.
Model X stopped 5 times to charge.

The winner is Kona.
Click to expand...
Is this on the latest Bjorn Nyland video(s)?
 
The Model X stopped 5 times to charge? Then either the MX driver didn't plan his trip properly, or the test was rigged to favor the Kona, or both.

From the very useful chart that Bob Wilson posted in another thread, we see:

Model X P90D
Range from a full charge: 241 miles highway
Range from a 30 minute Supercharger charge: 138 miles

That gives us:

241 miles (initial full charge)
charging stop #1
138 miles
charging stop #2
138 miles
charging stop #3
138 miles

Total: 655 miles, comfortably in excess of 1000 km.
​
 
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Pushmi-Pullyu said:
The Model X stopped 5 times to charge? Then either the MX driver didn't plan his trip properly, or the test was rigged to favor the Kona, or both.

From the very useful chart that Bob Wilson posted in another thread, we see:

Model X P90D
Range from a full charge: 241 miles highway
Range from a 30 minute Supercharger charge: 138 miles

That gives us:

241 miles (initial full charge)
charging stop #1
138 miles
charging stop #2
138 miles
charging stop #3
138 miles

Total: 655 miles, comfortably in excess of 1000 km.
​
Click to expand...
You can watch the full 15 hour video on YouTube.
Kona EV was driven by Bjorn and Model X was driven by Pawel (Model X owner).

The Kona EV is almost as efficient as the Ioniq EV with 64kWh of usable range. If Kona could have charged at those 175kW Charge station, it would have been a blowout.

Kona started at 100% SOC
Recharged to 74% SOC
Recharged to 69% SOC
Finished with 11% SOC

Why did Pawel supercharged five times? Superchargers are not located every mile. Sometimes, you have to supercharger at higher SOC because the next station is too far away.

But the main reason was the inefficiency of the Model X compare to Kona EV. Bjorn could have travelled 500km on a single charge while the Model X needed to supercharger at 300km.

Bjorn said the Kona EV was more efficient than the Model 3 LR.
 
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When calculating hypothetical charging speed, you need to ignore 0-15% SOC and 80-100% SOC. The true charging speed is from 15% SOC to first throttling.

Charging stop will eat up 5-10 minutes. The less you need to charge, the faster the trip.

Kona, on 50kW charger, will get 47kW all the way to 74% SOC.
Optimal charging region: 74-15=59%

The Bolt EV, on 50kW charger, will get 43kW all the way to 57% SOC.
Optimal charging region: 57-15=42%

Efficiency combined with optimal charging region will give you the true performance.

We can predict that the Kona EV will beat the Model 3 SR.
 
JyChevyVolt said:
Bjorn said the Kona EV was more efficient than the Model 3 LR.
Click to expand...

You've suggested the energy efficiency of the Kona is more or less equal to that of the Ioniq Electric. Well, I know something about the latter. The Ioniq achieved remarkably high energy efficiency with remarkably weak performance.

So, this test is like bragging that your classic VW Beetle is "better" than a Porsche 911, because it uses less gas going the same distance. It's not "better". It's just trading off lower performance and acceleration for improved energy efficiency.

My first car was the 1975 Honda Civic CVCC. Engineered for maximum MPG... but at the expense of a very long 0-60 time. Because of the poor acceleration, it was very difficult to pass another car on a two-way highway when sight was limited by hills, as it often is here in eastern Kansas.

So don't try to sell me that a weak performance car is "better" just because it's more energy-efficient. I know better from personal experience. At best it's trade-off. At worst it's simply a poor design.
​
 
JyChevyVolt said:
When calculating hypothetical charging speed, you need to ignore 0-15% SOC and 80-100% SOC. The true charging speed is from 15% SOC to first throttling.

Charging stop will eat up 5-10 minutes. The less you need to charge, the faster the trip.

Kona, on 50kW charger, will get 47kW all the way to 74% SOC.
Optimal charging region: 74-15=59%

The Bolt EV, on 50kW charger, will get 43kW all the way to 57% SOC.
Optimal charging region: 57-15=42%

Efficiency combined with optimal charging region will give you the true performance.

We can predict that the Kona EV will beat the Model 3 SR.
Click to expand...
JyChevyVolt said:
You can watch the full 15 hour video on YouTube.
Kona EV was driven by Bjorn and Model X was driven by Pawel (Model X owner).

The Kona EV is almost as efficient as the Ioniq EV with 64kWh of usable range. If Kona could have charged at those 175kW Charge station, it would have been a blowout.

Kona started at 100% SOC
Recharged to 74% SOC
Recharged to 69% SOC
Finished with 11% SOC

Why did Pawel supercharged five times? Superchargers are not located every mile. Sometimes, you have to supercharger at higher SOC because the next station is too far away.

But the main reason was the inefficiency of the Model X compare to Kona EV. Bjorn could have travelled 500km on a single charge while the Model X needed to supercharger at 300km.

Bjorn said the Kona EV was more efficient than the Model 3 LR.
Click to expand...


This is really telling, Tesla fans are going to be taking every swipe possible at the result. Pretty amazing result for Kia.... Domenick, why is this not being reported on the news site? This is real EV news?
 
Pushmi-Pullyu said:
You've suggested the energy efficiency of the Kona is more or less equal to that of the Ioniq Electric. Well, I know something about the latter. The Ioniq achieved remarkably high energy efficiency with remarkably weak performance.

So, this test is like bragging that your classic VW Beetle is "better" than a Porsche 911, because it uses less gas going the same distance. It's not "better". It's just trading off lower performance and acceleration for improved energy efficiency.

My first car was the 1975 Honda Civic CVCC. Engineered for maximum MPG... but at the expense of a very long 0-60 time. Because of the poor acceleration, it was very difficult to pass another car on a two-way highway when sight was limited by hills, as it often is here in eastern Kansas.

So don't try to sell me that a weak performance car is "better" just because it's more energy-efficient. I know better from personal experience. At best it's trade-off. At worst it's simply a poor design.
​
Click to expand...
200 hp, 67-70 kWh EVs are underpowered now?
 
David Green said:
This is really telling, Tesla fans are going to be taking every swipe possible at the result. Pretty amazing result for Kia.... Domenick, why is this not being reported on the news site? This is real EV news?
Click to expand...
I imagine it will be reported on. I didn't see the video when I looked for it, so I can't say much about the result. No idea if it's been assigned to someone else yet.
 
JyChevyVolt said:
200 hp, 67-70 kWh EVs are underpowered now?
Click to expand...


PuPu does not even go test drive EV's let alone own one, he is just repeating what he read somewhere. I have also not driven Ioniq yet, but spec wise it seems plenty powerful enough, can it reach 70Mph, and make it up a hill is all that really matters.
 
Domenick said:
I imagine it will be reported on. I didn't see the video when I looked for it, so I can't say much about the result. No idea if it's been assigned to someone else yet.
Click to expand...

I tried to watch the videos, but way too long, and I lost interest. This might be for someone more like Bob to watch and report the little details as he has a more detailed, and longer attention span then I do. One thing I would like to see detailed in the report is why Bjorn's Model X battery pack is already throttled on supercharging, his battery pack is less then 1 Year old, and during that 1 year Optimus has spent about 3 months at the service center.
 
David Green said:
I tried to watch the videos, but way too long, and I lost interest. This might be for someone more like Bob to watch and report the little details as he has a more detailed, and longer attention span then I do. One thing I would like to see detailed in the report is why Bjorn's Model X battery pack is already throttled on supercharging, his battery pack is less then 1 Year old, and during that 1 year Optimus has spent about 3 months at the service center.
Click to expand...
I imagine Bjorn will edit it all down into something watchable. I've no idea why it's throttling down, but I imagine he'll give a good explanation.
 
Domenick said:
I imagine Bjorn will edit it all down into something watchable. I've no idea why it's throttling down, but I imagine he'll give a good explanation.
Click to expand...

I am looking forward to seeing his edited version... I saw all his other videos on the Kona, he is very impressed with efficiency, charging, and regen. Good for Kia... Looks like a winner. Edit, Bjorn also really liked the Krell sound system.. haha!
 
David Green said:
This is really telling, Tesla fans are going to be taking every swipe possible at the result.
Click to expand...

No, that's a serious question.

99.99% of Tesla fans will hear nothing about this silly "race", and would care even less if they did hear about it.

David Green said:
Who cares?
Click to expand...

Obviously you care a lot about this "who cares?" rigged contest, since you keep posting about it.

David Green said:
Tesla and the vaunted Supercharger network lost...
Click to expand...

Seems you set the bar awfully low for "lost".

Tesla's sales, and the reputation of Tesla's vastly superior Supercharger network, are just fine. They haven't "lost" a thing.

Every time you Tesla Death Cultists make a mountain out of a molehill like this, it just highlights your growing desperation.
​
 
David Green said:
PuPu does not even go test drive EV's let alone own one...
Click to expand...

And I'm honest and upfront about no longer being able to drive. Not that it stopped me from visiting my local Tesla store for a test ride!

How about you and your long-term die-hard campaign against EVs? Not so much with the honesty there, huh.

Or are you actually going to try to make us believe that a guy known for posting "coal rolling" EV bashing comments on the Duramax diesel truck forums, has had a "Come to Jesus" conversion and actually drives an EV? The same guy who just the other day claimed he was pro-Tesla until he read my posts debunking some Tesla Death Cultist FUD.

You made your bed, dude. Now lie in it... that's something you are very practiced at.
​
 
Pushmi-Pullyu said:
Are you on drugs? No, that's a serious question.

99.99% of Tesla fans will hear nothing about this silly "race", and would care even less if they did hear about it.



Obviously you care a lot about this "who cares?" rigged contest, since you keep posting about it.



Seems you set the bar awfully low for "lost".

Tesla's sales, and the reputation of Tesla's vastly superior Supercharger network, are just fine. They haven't "lost" a thing.

Every time you Tesla Death Cultists make a mountain out of a molehill like this, it just highlights your growing desperation.
​
Click to expand...

I find it interesting that you did not bash me for my biggest mistake, calling it a Kia Kona.. haha! Oops... Sorry Hyundai..
 
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