InsideEVs Podcast episodes

R P said:
I watched #84, mostly to see their comments about the Solterra. A little disappointed in their shallow review. Obviously not very familiar with Subaru, and what their cars are all about. If they would have watched the Japanese vid they would have seen it off-road and going up some pretty steep and rough trails. And didn't even mention the clearance, which is so important. Hopefully after this Wed's NA reveal, we will get some better info. Subaru ICE SUVs have superior suspension and AWD traction to handle rough roads and wash board (much smoother than a truck or Jeep). I expect the Solterra to be the same or better.

They also questioned the FWD version projected range, but failed to understand/mention that FWD is more efficient. That is why the Kona achieves such good range, despite not having the best aerodynamics.
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Some fair criticisms here, though I'd say at least a couple of us are somewhat familiar with Subaru. I drove a '78 Subaru GL Wagon a fair amount back in the day (which I absolutely loved), and also had first-hand experience with models from the 80's. 90's, and early 2000's. I'm sure Kyle, at least, has experienced more recent models.
That said, I should have mentioned ground clearance -- a decent 210 mm (8.27 inches). And, I didn't see watch the Japanese video, which we didn't have in our post and was also not linked to on the Subaru Global media site, either the English side (which also didn't have press photos), or the Japanese side. Am definitely checking it out now.
Regarding the range, I'm quite confident the real world range given for FWD Solterra as 329 miles is very optimistic. The VW ID.4 is a decent comparison vehicle and while it's ~100 pounds lighter, it has a bigger battery and gets a 260 mile EPA range rating. The WLTP is more optimistic than EPA generally. The Solterra also uses synchronous permanent magnet motors on both axles, and so need to always be energized (unless there is a physical decoupling), which is less efficient than the ID.4 which uses an asynchronous induction motor that can simply not receive energy unless needed, which is more efficient.
Like I said, I'll be with Toyota early this week, so hopefully can learn more about it.
 
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Domenick said:
Some fair criticisms here, though I'd say at least a couple of us are somewhat familiar with Subaru. I drove a '78 Subaru GL Wagon a fair amount back in the day (which I absolutely loved), and also had first-hand experience with models from the 80's. 90's, and early 2000's. I'm sure Kyle, at least, has experienced more recent models.
That said, I should have mentioned ground clearance -- a decent 210 mm (8.27 inches). And, I didn't see watch the Japanese video, which we didn't have in our post and was also not linked to on the Subaru Global media site, either the English side (which also didn't have press photos), or the Japanese side. Am definitely checking it out now.
Regarding the range, I'm quite confident the real world range given for FWD Solterra as 329 miles is very optimistic. The VW ID.4 is a decent comparison vehicle and while it's ~100 pounds lighter, it has a bigger battery and gets a 260 mile EPA range rating. The WLTP is more optimistic than EPA generally. The Solterra also uses synchronous permanent magnet motors on both axles, and so need to always be energized (unless there is a physical decoupling), which is less efficient than the ID.4 which uses an asynchronous induction motor that can simply not receive energy unless needed, which is more efficient.
Like I said, I'll be with Toyota early this week, so hopefully can learn more about it.
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One of your own, Kyle, did a recent ID.4 off-road test, and it failed miserably.

He seemed surprised, but maybe he will learn what Subaru owners know that not all AWD vehicles are the same. What is even less known is how smooth Subaru vehicles are over rough roads and washboard. This is a combination of having a long range suspension (soft on top) and permanent all AWD (not slip and grip as used by most others) which just glides over the small bumps and pot holes.

I know this well, because I have a Crosstrek that we use to go to our off-road cabin. The last 15 kms of this road are very rough. I used to own a 4WD truck, that would bounce and rattle your teeth over this same road. The Crosstrek turned what used to be a tense ride into a scenic, pleasant adventure. And we have friends with Jeeps and other SUVs that come up to our cabin, too, and then we have to listen to their complaints about the road. Jeeps are actually the worst, because of how they sway, and easy to lose control around a corner. This road can be particularly dangerous as it runs along a steep mountain side (with some very scary steep cliffs on the down side) and lake below. There have been quite a few accidents and some fatalities over time of people going over and into the lake.

So if this Solterra is as good as the ICE Subaru's, it will indeed be a hit with the mild off-road adventure crowd.
 
R P said:
One of your own, Kyle, did a recent ID.4 off-road test, and it failed miserably.

He seemed surprised, but maybe he will learn what Subaru owners know that not all AWD vehicles are the same. What is even less known is how smooth Subaru vehicles are over rough roads and washboard. This is a combination of having a long range suspension (soft on top) and permanent all AWD (not slip and grip as used by most others) which just glides over the small bumps and pot holes.

I know this well, because I have a Crosstrek that we use to go to our off-road cabin. The last 15 kms of this road are very rough. I used to own a 4WD truck, that would bounce and rattle your teeth over this same road. The Crosstrek turned what used to be a tense ride into a scenic, pleasant adventure. And we have friends with Jeeps and other SUVs that come up to our cabin, too, and then we have to listen to their complaints about the road. Jeeps are actually the worst, because of how they sway, and easy to lose control around a corner. This road can be particularly dangerous as it runs along a steep mountain side (with some very scary steep cliffs on the down side) and lake below. There have been quite a few accidents and some fatalities over time of people going over and into the lake.

So if this Solterra is as good as the ICE Subaru's, it will indeed be a hit with the mild off-road adventure crowd.
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Yes, we talked a bit about the ID.4 failing this test on #84. It just wasn't sending enough power to the wheels that actually had traction -- it was in traction mode, so the front motor, which in regular usage only is activated when the driver calls for extra acceleration, was on full-time.
I really expect the Solterra (and bz4x) to do better in this kind of test, but this particular road that Kyle tested on is now closed for the winter. He'll have to either find another or wait until Spring before resuming these tests.
The ride quality of Subaru off-road is a great point as well.
 
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Just sharing for the team. I am not a fan of the Toyota bz4x EV:
upload_2021-11-19_22-11-43.webp

  • too many air inlets - these function like little parachutes increase drag
  • flat-plate front - the transition at the edges will include turbulence, again increasing drag
  • too many angular creases in panels - again, turbulence and drag
  • exposed, non-flush, door handles - another source of drag
  • too horizontal hood - no smooth air flow transition to windshield, drag
Then there is the rear:
upload_2021-11-19_22-17-7.webp

  • too angular - leads to flow separation and higher drag
  • kamel-back roof - forces air separation for a trailing, horizontal vortex and likely reverse flow at rear window
  • excessive rear wheel height - another source of flow separation and drag
I appreciate your video about this car but to me it looks like a high-speed, draggy body, unnecessarily complex, with less high speed efficiency. BTW, I apply the same judgement to every EV and the Toyota appears to be especially a problem.

Bob Wilson
 
I watched #84, or at least the bZ4X portion, skipped through most of the rest. Generally agree with Kyle's comments. The interior is absolutely hideous, esp that weird little dash ahead of the steering wheel. And don't like the Rav4 front end of the exterior. The Solterra is much nicer in that respect. But all in all, this new car is a big fail, and a real disappointment from Toyota. The only possible saving grace might be its off road chops and if they sell it really cheap. They might have to, or no one will want to buy it.
 
Plz send me a PM about who accused Tom of ‘lying’. None of my regular reviewers have done this but I’d like a heads-up to avoid someone who is that wrong.

There are reviewers I avoid because they are technology shallow. But I really have no patience or time to waste with backbiting jerks.

BTW, excellent Lucid testing review!

Thanks,
Bob Wilson
 
About the CCS-1 to Tesla adapters, if Tesla isn’t selling them, then license and let others.

I have no interest in a Tesla to CCS-1 adapter. Those cars often have slow charge curves and would block SuperCharger lanes.

Bob Wilson
 
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I just watched #86. A few interesting points.

Seems the Lucid is not as fast charging as originally thought. 20 - 80% in 31.5 min. The Ioniq 5 is 20 - 80% in 18 minutes. In fairness though, the Lucid does have considerable more range.

The new Nero EV refresh was interesting. They completely changed the exterior and interior styling, but on the old platform and battery/drive train. That platform (same as the Kona) is very efficient, and should still sell well at a lower price point than the new gen 800V systems. I wonder if they will do a similar major refresh with the Kona? I kind of doubt it. I know in Canada, the Ioniq 5 does not really cost that much more than the Kona Ultimate, but you get a lot more car.
 
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R P said:
Seems the Lucid is not as fast charging as originally thought. 20 - 80% in 31.5 min. The Ioniq 5 is 20 - 80% in 18 minutes. In fairness though, the Lucid does have considerable more range.
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The graph could be more effective and they mentioned the need to improve their charging curve representation:
  • X-axis - time with SOC scale, two variables can be combined on the same axis
  • Y-axis - miles per hour rate and kW
Bob Wilson
 
I don't subscribe but apparently "BestInTESLA" claimed the same Lucid battery nonsense (Source: youtu.be/BzS3MwiZ5xE). Sometimes YouTube puts in suggested content I don't follow. YouTube's 20 minuted advertisements in a 5 minute video comes to mind.

Bob Wilson
 
A retired engineer, I appreciate your efforts to explain charging losses. As a suggestion, you might consider discussing ‘fast DC’ charging density vs charge rate (dot) kWh/mile. Sad to say, the math is a little challenging.

Bob Wilson
 
Hi,

I watched the December 17 YouTube:


Owner of a 2019 Std Rng Plus Model 3, ordinarily I would object to claims that 'brand X model Y' is the best EV. But in nearly three years, the 2021 Model 3 has added over 20 miles of range and ~4% improved efficiency. In effect, there are more recent EV designs both within Tesla and outside Tesla that means my 2019 has become dated (NO I AM NOT SELLING IT!!!)

Today's 'latest hotness' will in a year or two become 'Ho hum.' But my Tesla still works and does what I bought it for. If by act of God, I lose my 2019 Tesla and need to shop for a replacement, it is nice to know I won't just be looking at useless compliance cars.

Bob Wilson
 
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I watched #89, mainly to hear what they say about the Ioniq 5. Sounds like Kyle really likes it. Very advanced engineering/design and highly refined.


 
Just a couple of suggestions:
  1. Have a Model 3 tow-charge another Model 3 - report the energy used and gained with a benchmark over the same distance and speed of without tow charging (aka., overhead.) I suspect the energy overhead will make it an 80% efficiency model but was wondering.
    • Is this an operational scenario that might use the front tow hook as an emergency charge option?
  2. Discuss how the existence of Tesla models might have provided a benchmark that more recent EV designers used to 'take inspiration'. My impression could be from the frequent reviewer comments about Tesla models when discussing other EV cars.
Thanks,
Bob Wilson
 
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Curtis Muhlestein said:
Kyle says go to another state to purchase an Ioniq 5. I called a dealership in Aurora Co. They said that they would only sell to someone who had the car registered in CO.
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We have Kona Electric owners on the Forum who have bought out-of-state, but every dealership/state may be different.
 
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