I was told today because of recall 200, Hyundai wants buy back our cars

[GeorgeS]

I'm not certain but I believe that the issues involving SK and importing of their batteries into the US has been resolved (or is in the process of being resolved).

The SK battery solution as I heard it was a ban on all SK cells in the US for 10 years. This was for patent infringement. This would lend to the comment that battery replacement would not solve the problem of defective batteries. You couldn't replace LGChem with LGChem even if they didn't have the defect. The damage is done and the reputation would not recover. If they are not going to replace the batteries then a buy back seams like the only alternative. If people insist on keeping the Kona then replacement and charging limit would help. I don't think it would cure the issue. How are they going to identify the individual cells from the packs that are defective and lead to more failure?

 

[GeorgeS]

I would strongly suspect not since the tax rebates did not cost them money and were an incentive for US to buy the car which again did not cost Hyundai anything. Obviously, if they incorporate the tax credit into their buyback value that would almost certainly be a deal breaker for me, at that point I would insist they replace the battery as I am not willing to accept max charge of 80% indefinitely.

I don't understand why you would want Hyundai to pay you back for your rebates. If you were to sell the car on the open market by yourself most buyers will know there was a rebate. You wouldn't sell it for $47k less depreciation.
By my calculations, the car should be worth about $30K to $35K at best. That is given a reasonable amount of miles, 30K give or take for a 2 year old car. Consider if you got $37K and you received $10K in rebates, this car has cost you nothing and you drive it 2 years.

 

[Mattsburgh]

The SK battery solution as I heard it was a ban on all SK cells in the US for 10 years. This was for patent infringement. This would lend to the comment that battery replacement would not solve the problem of defective batteries. You couldn't replace LGChem with LGChem even if they didn't have the defect. The damage is done and the reputation would not recover. If they are not going to replace the batteries then a buy back seams like the only alternative. If people insist on keeping the Kona then replacement and charging limit would help. I don't think it would cure the issue. How are they going to identify the individual cells from the packs that are defective and lead to more failure?

I'm sorry that's not correct. That was the ITC original ruling, but after that the 2 companies reached a settlement, with SK paying $1.8 billion to LG Chem. The 10 year ban is gone and both companies are free to manufacture batteries here in the US now.

 

[Mattsburgh]

I don't understand why you would want Hyundai to pay you back for your rebates. If you were to sell the car on the open market by yourself most buyers will know there was a rebate. You wouldn't sell it for $47k less depreciation.
By my calculations, the car should be worth about $30K to $35K at best. That is given a reasonable amount of miles, 30K give or take for a 2 year old car. Consider if you got $37K and you received $10K in rebates, this car has cost you nothing and you drive it 2 years.

I don't want Hyundai to pay me back for any rebates. There's a miscommunication here. The point is that Hyundai can't take into account the rebate when determining the value of the vehicle. If you bought the vehicle for $44,000 then you bought the vehicle for $44,000. What happens after that is not their business. Are you aware that some companies like Google pay their employees thousands for buying an EV? Is Hyundai going to penalize them for that as well? How will they know? Common sense - it is not possible for Hyundai to include credits and rebates in their calculation of what the vehicle is worth because it's not possible for them to know what credits or rebates any given individual received.

Either way none of this matters, it's all speculation. Hyundai will offer what they offer and then we'll know. But if you'd like to place a bet I'll be happy to take you up on that.

Let's also not lose sight of the fact that many of us, myself included, do not want to necessarily sell our cars back but feel we have no choice given their insistence that we set max charge to 80%. I'm not an attorney but this seems like an easy class action lawsuit if they don't treat us fairly here. They sold us a car with x range and now they want us to live with 80% of x range. Unacceptable. They know this and that is why they are going to buy the cars back and why they're going to be reasonable with the cost and not try to pull stupid games like trying to screw us out of any credits or rebates we might have received. I guarantee you as part of the buy back you'll have to sign legal papers saying you agree not to take any legal action and that this is the final resolution of the matter.

 

[Ed C]

OMG....one of my cruise control buttons just broke (the "RES +" button). I now realized how flimsy this car is. Now I have to take it to a dealer, and they will stealth install the battery updates.....

I think I might go for a buyback now. Changed my mind. Things are starting to break and I barely owned it for 2 years. I really hate for the car to fall apart after Hyundai's warranty expires.

Trouble is even Kelly Blue Book does not have a fair price for a used Kona EV. Even if they are for sale, the price is pressured lower, because owners wants to get rid of them. If Hyundai uses those prices as the buyback price, I think we are getting shafted. Hyundai created the problem, the media spread the bad press, people knows about the problems and are hesitant of the vehicle, prices comes down, Hyundai uses the lowered price for their buyback (self created prophecy).

 

[MSimpsonNJ]

The SK battery solution as I heard it was a ban on all SK cells in the US for 10 years. This was for patent infringement. This would lend to the comment that battery replacement would not solve the problem of defective batteries. You couldn't replace LGChem with LGChem even if they didn't have the defect. The damage is done and the reputation would not recover. If they are not going to replace the batteries then a buy back seams like the only alternative. If people insist on keeping the Kona then replacement and charging limit would help. I don't think it would cure the issue. How are they going to identify the individual cells from the packs that are defective and lead to more failure?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jillba...eat-after-ev-battery-settlement-with-lg-chem/

 

[Jamas]

Although this is not exactly the same thing I was told (your person sounds like they have a bit more information) it does mesh with everything I was told. My rep didn't tell me the replacement doesn't fix the problem, but did strongly suggest battery replacement is not what they plan to do as a remedy. I clearly stated that 80% max charge for an indefinite amount of time was not acceptable. I told her that if they were willing to promise me something reasonable like the battery replacement would take place "before end of June" (for example) then that would be different, but that's not what they're saying. She obviously (correctly) took that to mean that I was looking for another solution. I expected them to possibly offer a loaner but no, she went straight to asking me if I would be interested in a buyback.

One other thing, at the dealer today, they are a dealer for both Hyundai and Nissan. The service manager I dealt with talked to me for quite a while about the car and situation, as he himself wanted to buy a Kona Electric but their dealership isn't allowed to get any (not one of the 12 states Hyundai ships them to). Anyway, he pointed out how Nissan had a big problem with Rogues or Muranos (I think?) awhile back with the airbags and then he also mentioned another major recall that I don't remember the details of but the point was he said that Nissan had the dealership put everyone in rentals from Enterprise and he said that basically they wiped out Enterprises' fleet all over the country and it was costing Nissan $1600 a month per car. So Nissan eventually just started buying back the cars instead of paying all that money for rentals indefinitely. His point , which I think is sound, is that perhaps Hyundai doesn't want to get into a situation where they're paying for thousands of rentals for a long period of time and instead they're like "if customers aren't ok with waiting, let's buy the car back". The bad news here of course is that this might mean Hyundai thinks it's going to be a long time (months) before they figure out what all needs to happen to insure the fix really does fix the problem. It makes sense that they want to be absolutely sure; imagine you got a new battery along with 80,000 others and a few weeks later... one of them catches on fire. There goes any/all confidence that the problem has been fixed.

Yeah, she didn't directly say buy back wasn't an option, but she did seem to try and downplay it, preferring that in the short-term, I just wait it out to see what happens. I figure I'll give them until end of June to see if anything new develops, after which, I may start pushing for a buyback.

 

[Chris Alemany]

Yeah, she didn't directly say buy back wasn't an option, but she did seem to try and downplay it, preferring that in the short-term, I just wait it out to see what happens. I figure I'll give them until end of June to see if anything new develops, after which, I may start pushing for a buyback.

What about demanding a direct warranty replacement of the car? I read through my warranty booklet yesterday and it mentions the standard 5yr new car warranty as well as the dispute resolution process from the dealer management, to national (my case Hyundai Canada) company process, and ultimately to a "no cost" arbitration/mediation settlement.

 

[Jamas]

What about demanding a direct warranty replacement of the car? I read through my warranty booklet yesterday and it mentions the standard 5yr new car warranty as well as the dispute resolution process from the dealer management, to national (my case Hyundai Canada) company process, and ultimately to a "no cost" arbitration/mediation settlement.

Given the option, I think I might still prefer a buy-back vs. a replacement car, assuming they offered purchase price minus mileage depreciation. I love the look and feel of the car, and how it drives, but there's just been too many issues with this car (I've also had the motor replaced due to the clicking noise issue), not to mention all the recalls. Add to that the fact that the car is being discontinued, and the reputation of the car has taken quite a hit (most likely affecting future resale value), I just don't think it's worth keeping if I can reasonably avoid it without taking a bath.

 

[Chris Alemany]

Given the option, I think I might still prefer a buy-back vs. a replacement car, assuming they offered purchase price minus mileage depreciation. I love the look and feel of the car, and how it drives, but there's just been too many issues with this car (I've also had the motor replaced due to the clicking noise issue), not to mention all the recalls. Add to that the fact that the car is being discontinued, and the reputation of the car has taken quite a hit (most likely affecting future resale value), I just don't think it's worth keeping if I can reasonably avoid it without taking a bath.

I think it is worth considering that the model is only being discontinued in Korea. The US and presumably International variants are continuing. I've really got no issue with the car itself. Recalls happen with all cars. A warranty replacement with a 2020 or 2021 model would be acceptable to me.

 

[Jamas]

I think it is worth considering that the model is only being discontinued in Korea. The US and presumably International variants are continuing. I've really got no issue with the car itself. Recalls happen with all cars. A warranty replacement with a 2020 or 2021 model would be acceptable to me.

The 2019 came with a lifetime battery warranty. I'd be curious if a warranty replacement with a 2021 model maintained that same battery warranty.

 

[Chris Alemany]

The 2019 came with a lifetime battery warranty. I'd be curious if a warranty replacement with a 2021 model maintained that same battery warranty.

Good point. I don't *think* the Canada model had that same lifetime warranty? (8 years/100K is what sticks in my mind). I would imagine a new car would come with the current offerings. Though if you have to negotiate to get a full warranty replacement anyway, then you should be able to negotiate the warranty as well.

 

[Mattsburgh]

The 2019 came with a lifetime battery warranty. I'd be curious if a warranty replacement with a 2021 model maintained that same battery warranty.

I don't think it would, in fact I have been wondering if this is one reason they're doing this, pretty sure but not positive that the lifetime battery was only US and only 2019 models. Which made me wonder if that's one reason they're buying back those now. My rep specifically said their preference is to buy back the 2019 Kona Electrics. But I thought for sure some 2020 models are included in recall 200? If that's the case why wouldn't they want to buy those back? What is the difference? The lifetime battery warranty is the difference. Maybe I'm just being a pessimist.

 

[Mattsburgh]

By the way I got an official letter from Hyundai today stating they want to buy the car back. I was told I would not hear from someone in that department for 5-10 business days though. Funny/not really funny, my rep called it an "offer letter" and said she emailed it to me while we were on the phone. I opened it, it's not an offer letter in the sense that it has a dollar figure, but only in the sense of they are officially stating they want to buy it back at this point.

If anyone wants to see what the letter said, here it is:

 

[miatadan]

With all these issues, good thing I never purchased the Kona Electric, last few weeks so nothing but posts about battery issues, battery replacement, traction motor failure, unneeded automatic emergency braking, poor regen etc. Hopefully Hyundai will take care of their customers with buyback.

 

[Chris Alemany]

A philosophical statement, so feel free to skip
Before owning this Kona Electric, I was an exclusively Toyota guy and they just kept going and going and going with only minor maintenance. Truly the benefit of decades of high quality manufacturing of a well understood machine.

I see the battery recall frankly as only peripherally related to Hyundai because Chevy and other car manufacturers have had precisely the same issue with the same supplier. It's the same as when the Boeing 777 first came out and there were problems with battery fires. It stopped production and threatened the plane's viability for awhile... but then, it was resolved, the technology matured, and we've not heard of any lithium battery issues in planes since then. This is progress.

The Kona is still the best vehicle I have ever owned, and I continue to boost it to everyone who inevitably stops me, on a weekly basis!, and asks how I like it.
It's a joy to drive, it's useful and practical.

I'm still very grateful to be privileged enough to be in the position to be able to own one and I'm gonna fight like heck to make sure Hyundai keeps me as a customer, whether they like it or not. ;=)

 

[Mattsburgh]

A philosophical statement, so feel free to skip
Before owning this Kona Electric, I was an exclusively Toyota guy and they just kept going and going and going with only minor maintenance. Truly the benefit of decades of high quality manufacturing of a well understood machine.

I see the battery recall frankly as only peripherally related to Hyundai because Chevy and other car manufacturers have had precisely the same issue with the same supplier. It's the same as when the Boeing 777 first came out and there were problems with battery fires. It stopped production and threatened the plane's viability for awhile... but then, it was resolved, the technology matured, and we've not heard of any lithium battery issues in planes since then. This is progress.

The Kona is still the best vehicle I have ever owned, and I continue to boost it to everyone who inevitably stops me, on a weekly basis!, and asks how I like it.
It's a joy to drive, it's useful and practical.

I'm still very grateful to be privileged enough to be in the position to be able to own one and I'm gonna fight like heck to make sure Hyundai keeps me as a customer, whether they like it or not. ;=)

I agree, I think people who say they're glad they didn't buy a Kona Electric aren't very good at critical analysis. Somehow they see the problems we've faced and discussed and (often but not yet always) fixed and they hear how we also still say things like this is the best car I've ever had, I love this car, I don't want to sell it back... and somehow they come to the conclusion "thank god I didn't make the mistake all you people did".

I was mostly a Honda guy before this, with a few exceptions, but I've owned a 95 Civic, 97 CR-V, 99 Accord and a 2007 CR-V, but Honda was barely in the EV game. I had a friend who has had multiple Kia and Hyundai vehicles and loved them all; I started reading about the Kona a year before it went on sale here and I was interested from the start. Now? I'm not saying I won't buy a Honda or Toyota in the future but right now it's Hyundai for me.

 

[Chris Alemany]

I agree, I think people who say they're glad they didn't buy a Kona Electric aren't very good at critical analysis. Somehow they see the problems we've faced and discussed and (often but not yet always) fixed and they hear how we also still say things like this is the best car I've ever had, I love this car, I don't want to sell it back... and somehow they come to the conclusion "thank god I didn't make the mistake all you people did".

I was mostly a Honda guy before this, with a few exceptions, but I've owned a 95 Civic, 97 CR-V, 99 Accord and a 2007 CR-V, but Honda was barely in the EV game. I had a friend who has had multiple Kia and Hyundai vehicles and loved them all; I started reading about the Kona a year before it went on sale here and I was interested from the start. Now? I'm not saying I won't buy a Honda or Toyota in the future but right now it's Hyundai for me.

Indeed. I was frankly very disappointed (and still am) in Toyota's reluctance to use their considerable knowledge of hybrids and world leading manufacturing to put out a full BEV vehicle. But... I committed that my next car would not have an ICE, and the Kona was, and still is, a highly rated vehicle. I am not naive enough to think this recall might not sink the whole project for Hyundai, but I do believe they are a serious company that still wants to be a major player in the market and that's going to drive them, pun intended, to treat their customers right.

 

[miatadan]

Indeed. I was frankly very disappointed (and still am) in Toyota's reluctance to use their considerable knowledge of hybrids and world leading manufacturing to put out a full BEV vehicle. But... I committed that my next car would not have an ICE, and the Kona was, and still is, a highly rated vehicle. I am not naive enough to think this recall might not sink the whole project for Hyundai, but I do believe they are a serious company that still wants to be a major player in the market and that's going to drive them, pun intended, to treat their customers right.

With the announcement of the Ioniq 5 which is designed from the ground up as a EV, they are serious about EV's.

I not as forgiving as if I had more than 1 recall, I would sell or trade in vehicle regardless of the name brand.

At this time I am also disappointed with Toyota and their reluctance regarding EV's.

 

[FloridaSun]

Given the option, I think I might still prefer a buy-back vs. a replacement car, assuming they offered purchase price minus mileage depreciation. I love the look and feel of the car, and how it drives, but there's just been too many issues with this car (I've also had the motor replaced due to the clicking noise issue), not to mention all the recalls. Add to that the fact that the car is being discontinued, and the reputation of the car has taken quite a hit (most likely affecting future resale value), I just don't think it's worth keeping if I can reasonably avoid it without taking a bath.

I have little hope that they will make me a decent offer on mine. As I already ordered my Y, I'm not interested in another Hyundai.. I personally really have no issue with the way Hyundai is handling the recall.. My main reason why I'm getting rid of the Kona is not really related to the car or the recall but because it's getting too small for my family for road trips.. Adding to that, is the lack of range with 80% charge limit makes it impossible for me to drive the car to our summer vacation destination.. The reason why I opened a buy back case is mostly due to the reduced value because of the open recall. Tesla wouldn't even consider it as trade.. Resale value is super low because of the open recall.. This is my main issue.