Hello and Help

  • Thread starter Thread starter Clamps
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 89
  • Views Views 16K
Clamps

Clamps

Active Member
Hi all, just signed up for the sole purpose of not torturing my wife with my EV buying decision and hoped some enthusiasts here will help me sort through the good and bad of the models that have my interest.

I should start with that this will not be my first EV as I currently lease a Smart Electric 453. That lease ends this August but I can turn the car in at anytime between now and then.

09sc3_zpsftqhbtgc.jpg

My little potsticker of a car.

I've whittled my choice down to three different cars using the following criteria. Needs to be physically small, has a range over 200 miles and can handle cold temps/winter driving efficiently. My cars of choice are:

Chevy Bolt - I love hatchbacks and think the Bolt is just about perfect in size and design. Not a big fan of the interior design, a bit too busy and cheap for my tastes. Was really looking forward to the refresh this summer but apparently that's been put on hold till next year.

Hyundai Kona - This is a head over heart decision. From what I've read it's extremely efficient. Exterior looks decent except for the wheel covers and front "grill" diamond pattern which I think are ugly at worst and distracting at least. The interior is completely uninspired and I wish the back seat was a bit more roomy. I know that's a lot of negatives but it's feature rich and the comfortable front seats make up for a lot of what I don't like.

Tesla Model 3 - I like the look a great deal and the minimalist interior is right up my alley. I think the fast charging and available Supercharger network are unbeatable. Only negatives right now is that it's pricey and it's a bit bigger than what I would prefer.

I've done lots of reading and watching youtube videos and have even taken the Bolt and Kona for test rides last year. What I don't have is good feedback from owners, do they like them, would they purchase them again, or have they been reliable.

That's about it, I'm sure lots of people come here searching for info and I appreciate any feedback from others. Thanks!
 
Clamps said:
Hi all, just signed up for the sole purpose of not torturing my wife with my EV buying decision and hoped some enthusiasts here will help me sort through the good and bad of the models that have my interest.

I should start with that this will not be my first EV as I currently lease a Smart Electric 453. That lease ends this August but I can turn the car in at anytime between now and then.

09sc3_zpsftqhbtgc.jpg

My little potsticker of a car.

I've whittled my choice down to three different cars using the following criteria. Needs to be physically small, has a range over 200 miles and can handle cold temps/winter driving efficiently. My cars of choice are:

Chevy Bolt - I love hatchbacks and think the Bolt is just about perfect in size and design. Not a big fan of the interior design, a bit too busy and cheap for my tastes. Was really looking forward to the refresh this summer but apparently that's been put on hold till next year.

Hyundai Kona - This is a head over heart decision. From what I've read it's extremely efficient. Exterior looks decent except for the wheel covers and front "grill" diamond pattern which I think are ugly at worst and distracting at least. The interior is completely uninspired and I wish the back seat was a bit more roomy. I know that's a lot of negatives but it's feature rich and the comfortable front seats make up for a lot of what I don't like.

Tesla Model 3 - I like the look a great deal and the minimalist interior is right up my alley. I think the fast charging and available Supercharger network are unbeatable. Only negatives right now is that it's pricey and it's a bit bigger than what I would prefer.

I've done lots of reading and watching youtube videos and have even taken the Bolt and Kona for test rides last year. What I don't have is good feedback from owners, do they like them, would they purchase them again, or have they been reliable.

That's about it, I'm sure lots of people come here searching for info and I appreciate any feedback from others. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Hi there! Just wondering if you have any range requirements. I mention it because the MINI Cooper SE (check out our MINI sub-forum!) is now being sold in the U.S. (starting MSRP $29,900) with a 110-mile range. Similar in price to the Chevy Bolt but with a nicer interior.

There's also the BMW i3 and i3s (153-mile range) which is in the right size category for you and has a nicer interior than the Bolt, but that price tag is a little tough to justify (at least for us necessarily frugal folks).

The Bolt EV is quick and has terrific range and there are lots of great deals if you can forgive the penalty box interior. I sat in the refreshed interior at GM's EV Day and it totally redeems the car. I suspect it will be a little harder to get the current deals you see on the 2020 model. And, as you say, it's now sadly delayed until 2021.

I like Kona Electric. As you mention, that back seat is tight, but our very active owner's group is pretty enthusiastic about it. A little tougher to find than a Bolt EV since it's only sold in a dozen or so states at the moment, so having a dealer that can service it local to you may be a factor.

Tesla Model 3 is an awesome car and if you can forgive its relatively larger size, it's pretty special in many ways: Supercharger network, as you say, but also the technology that's always being improved upon. Fun modes, Netflix, various games, dog mode...no other company approaches its product quite like Tesla.

If I had the budget, I would get the Tesla Model 3 (well, probably Model Y, because I like the hatch).
 
A new BMW i3-REx is pretty expensive. However, I recommend the 2016-current BMW i3-REx. The range extender engine is like a portable charger, ~25 kW, in the car. So you have effectively unlimited, 24x7 range at 70 mph. Avoid the 2014 because of infantile problems. The 2015-2016, end-of-lease are typically found for $20k or less on eBay.

You'll notice we have both a 2019 Model 3 and a 2014 BMW i3-REx. The BMW is backup for the Model 3.

Bob Wilson
 
A few thoughts of a Kona owner (over 1 year) and Bolt test-driver. No Tesla driving experience, but very educated because of lots of YouTube watching and lots of EV meetups where I've talked to lots of Tesla owners.

First: I LOVE the Kona. It is the best car I have ever driven! And I've driven BMW 3 series, Mazda, Toyota, Renault, Peugeot, VW, Ford.
I would buy the Kona again immediately even today. Some of the things I love about it is the safety features like Adaptive/Smart Cruise Control (I have the top trim), adjustable/smart Regen-braking, Auto-LED headlights and size (I moved with that car and there is much more room in there than I expected. And the efficiency is mind-blowing!
A couple thoughts about your concerns:
- I hated the front when I first saw the car! Believe it or not, I now love it and find Tesla fronts flat and boring. I love the slightly aggressive look of the day light running lights.
- I love the more traditional interior with knobs and buttons. I can change the volume, heating, cooling with only a minimal glance instead of having to look onto a screen and make sure my finger will actually find the spot to change something on a touchscreen.
- I am 6'4 so my normal seat position is all the way back. However, we had friends in town so we had 4 adults (and two dogs in the back) in the car, so I moved just a couple inches forward, was still very comfortable and the person behind me was good too.
- The charging network, especially with Electrify America building out soooo fast, is getting where Teslas supercharger network is. Very comparable, and not too much of an issue any more, other than for some remote areas.
- Android Auto / Apple Carplay support works great

Now the things I don't like:
- The navigation system is OK and works, but still needs improvement. But it's always there offline if necessary (capable of online POI and now routing). It is getting better, but it doesn't have over the air updates, so twice a year I have to get on my computer, download software and install. It takes about an hour or two. Most of the time you just wait. Windows computer and SD Card reader required! (I think I heard Apple emulation is possible)
- Not full one-pedal driving. In order to come to a complete stop you need to use the left steering wheel paddle.

A couple (very personal) thoughts about Tesla: I don't like their bate and switch method. First it's autopilot included, then it's extra, then it needs hardware update. Same with supercharging. You get it free, you don't, then you get it with referrals, then you don't, then you get a certain amount of supercharging miles, then they expire ... you just never know what you get and when. You might get free supercharging for life if you would have just waited a month ...
The OTA updates are great, though. As for navigation, I hear (I might stand corrected) that you have to have cellphone connection or it doesn't work ...

So, those are the reasons why I love my Kona and am still extremely happy that I bought it ... I hope this is of any help.
 
Esprit1st said:
A couple (very personal) thoughts about Tesla: I don't like their bate and switch method. First it's autopilot included, then it's extra, then it needs hardware update. Same with supercharging. You get it free, you don't, then you get it with referrals, then you don't, then you get a certain amount of supercharging miles, then they expire ... you just never know what you get and when. You might get free supercharging for life if you would have just waited a month ...
The OTA updates are great, though. As for navigation, I hear (I might stand corrected) that you have to have cellphone connection or it doesn't work ...
Click to expand...
"A couple (very personal) thoughts about Tesla: I don't like their bate and switch method. First it's autopilot included, then it's extra, then it needs hardware update. Same with supercharging. You get it free, you don't, then you get it with referrals, then you don't, then you get a certain amount of supercharging miles, then they expire ... you just never know what you get and when."​

I own a 2019 Std Rng Plus Model 3 and once I had the car in my hands, I stopped following the sales terms and conditions. I paid for the car and got what I ordered. Did someone later get a better deal? GOOD FOR THEM! I got what I expected and really don't spend my life worrying about what others got.

I've got 22,774 miles on my car that I would not have gotten by 'waiting for a better deal.' I paid off my Std Rng Plus Model 3 from part of my TSLA stock. Yet some would claim that with their perfect 'hind sight', they would have gotten a better deal. Except they didn't. Perhaps you need to rethink your claims about perfect insight and tell us which stocks to buy and sell 3 days, 3 weeks, 3 months, or 3 years from now ... and guarantee the return.

Look if you or anyone else likes their particular EV, GREAT! It is not my job to tell you or anyone else what to like or not. I have a Tesla Std Rng Plus Model 3 with 22,774 miles totally paid off. Do you honestly think I could 'trade it in' and get you favorite ride and be happy? After all, I am a retired engineer and you are ... ?

I like my cars and hope you like your cars. Enjoy the difference and perhaps rejoice in what each of us likes. But let's not descend into 'I like mine and yours is not as good.'

Bob Wilson
 
Last edited:
bwilson4web said:
"
I like my cars and hope you like your cars. Enjoy the difference and perhaps rejoice in what each of us likes. But let's not descend into 'I like mine and yours is not as good.'

Bob Wilson​
Click to expand...


I never said I don't like Teslas or you shouldn't drive one or it's a bad car. If I could've afforded one I probably would drive one. I said that was one thing that I didn't like about Tesla, just like they're are things that I don't like about my Hyundai. As I pointed out.

On the contrary, I had several Tesla owners that told me on meetups that if they would take me on a drive, I wouldn't want to drive my Hyundai Kona any more. I never said anything like that because I like every electric car because they are better, no matter what.​
 
Domenick said:
Hi there! Just wondering if you have any range requirements. I mention it because the MINI Cooper SE (check out our MINI sub-forum!) is now being sold in the U.S.

There's also the BMW i3 and i3s.

I sat in the refreshed interior at GM's EV Day and it totally redeems the car.

A little tougher to find than a Bolt EV since it's only sold in a dozen or so states at the moment, so having a dealer that can service it local to you may be a factor.

If I had the budget, I would get the Tesla Model 3 (well, probably Model Y, because I like the hatch).
Click to expand...

I set a 200 mile minimum range for my next car. Probably a reactionary move since owning the Smart which maxes out around 95 miles in ideal conditions and struggles to get 60 in winter when all systems are taxed. So the Mini is out as is the i3, which is a shame because I love the look of the i3. Honestly I would probably get an e-Golf if range wasn’t an issue.

I wish I knew what the refreshed Bolt looked like, I would look at extending my lease for another year if it were appealing to me.

Not tough to find the Kona near me, I live just outside of Boston and currently there are 19 of them. However they are all 2019’s, can’t find any 2020’s.

Pretty much everyone I’ve spoken to or reviews I’ve read/watched said the same about the Tesla, don’t test ride it as it will spoil you compared to the others.

bwilson4web said:
A new BMW i3-REx is pretty expensive. However, I recommend the 2016-current BMW i3-REx.
Click to expand...

While I understand the benefit of the REx model I simply don’t want a combustion engine in any form in my EV.

Esprit1st said:
A few thoughts of a Kona owner (over 1 year) and Bolt test-driver.

- I hated the front when I first saw the car! Believe it or not, I now love it and find Tesla fronts flat and boring.
Click to expand...

That’s the thing about the Kona, it’s just a smart purchase but... it doesn’t excite me. While I may grow to love the car I would never like that grill or wheels.

Harvey said:
and konas siblings, the kia nero and kia soul.
Click to expand...

Niro is too big and I find it even more blah than the Kona. I would love the Soul if it were the size of the original, don’t care for since its gone through update bloat.

marshall said:
If you live near a large city airport, I would suggest you go to Turo and rent these cars, if available, for the day.
Click to expand...

Neat idea, I’m less than ten miles from Boston Logan airport. However, getting test rides from the dealers aren’t a problem Covid issues not withstanding.

Thanks all, it’s great to get so much feedback.
 
Esprit1st said:
A few thoughts of a Kona owner (over 1 year) and Bolt test-driver. No Tesla driving experience, but very educated because of lots oflp.
Click to expand...

I’m assuming your test ride of the Bolt was during your decision to buy when you got the Kona. If so, what did you prefer about the Kona?

Furthermore, anyone here, why did you choose the EV you bought over others? And I hope critical comments are not taken personally by anyone. We’re talking about cars, not people.
 
BMW i3-REx

I'd seen the Sandy Munro teardown report on the BMW i3: carbon fiber body on an aluminum frame. He called it the Model T of the next generation. But I require cross country, 24x7 capability, and that only happens with the motorcycle engine in the terribly expensive BMW i3-REx. This was in 2016 when I noticed the "end of lease" BMW i3 were in the $30-35k range. Hummm.

In May of 2016, I visited the local Toyota dealer looking for a Gen-4 Prius, ECO model. But Toyota decided it would not have dynamic cruise control and lane keep assist. The dealer asked me to test drive the 'Level 3' with a useless moon roof. So with the baby sales critter, we went to my nearest test loop. I could only get 98 MPG and told him, "This is not good enough." He'd never seen that MPG before. Long story short, they reduced the price to $29k and that was already the price of a 2014 BMW i3-REx on eBay that I put a deposit on the next business day.

The BMW i3-REx easily handles cross country and local trips, 10 stops in Huntsville. Outside of town, the fast DC chargers are 4x the cost of gas. Around town, home and free charging works great. At 3,000 lbs with 168 hp, rear drive motor, it is a great scooter.

The first model year, 2014, there was a weak motor mount bolt and it broke about six months later. Parts had to come from Germany so the warranty repair took three weeks. It remains backup for our Model 3.

Std Rng Plus Model 3

February 28, 2019 Elon announced the $35k Model 3. That evening, I had my $2.5k deposit on a Standard Range Plus Model 3 with Autopilot and blue paint. I traded in a 2017 Prius Prime for $18.3k and paid off the Model 3 in October 2019 from TSLA stock profits.

After one year, we had 21,000 miles on the odometer. It cost $2.75 per 100 miles around town before using free chargers. On the road, we drove 1,980 miles with $60 of SuperCharger fees but we also stayed at two motels will free breakfast and overnight charging. Last summer, 711 miles cost $25 in charging fees.

My bad driving, I slammed a curb and had to replace the passenger side wheel bearings, rims, and tires. I did all the work and it was quite affordable. The only problem is Tesla tire seller offer low range, performance tires. I'm planning to replace all four tires with higher efficiency, longer range tires and lighter weight wheels.

Bob Wilson
 
Clamps said:
I’m assuming your test ride of the Bolt was during your decision to buy when you got the Kona. If so, what did you prefer about the Kona?

Furthermore, anyone here, why did you choose the EV you bought over others? And I hope critical comments are not taken personally by anyone. We’re talking about cars, not people.
Click to expand...
Actually my Bolt test drive was a year or so before I bought the Kona. I almost bought a Bolt but the dealers were terrible so it never happened ... Luckily, because I like the Kona a lot better which I bought unseen (in person). I only saw a lot of YouTube videos about it and bought it just of off that!

I like the looks and the features of the Kona a lot better, the Bolt doesn't come with smart cruise control, it looks and felt cheaper. And the Kona has more range, even though it's not a lot more. It charges slightly faster and I love that charge port on the front of the car, makes charging so much easier.
 
Clamps said:
Neat idea, I’m less than ten miles from Boston Logan airport. However, getting test rides from the dealers aren’t a problem Covid issues not withstanding.
Click to expand...

One concern, is that a test drive won't reveal seat issues. Renting for a day should. I've seen seat complaints for both the Bolt and the Niro.
 
If you are used to a smaller car and want a similar feel, you need to check on the turning radius of the vehicles you are testing.
 
bwilson4web said:
The BMW i3-REx easily handles cross country and local trips.
Click to expand...

You certainly tempt me about the i3 REx but I just don't want to deal with an engine. I've got two and possibly a third motorcycle coming my way and they keep me busy enough with maintenance.

Esprit1st said:
I like the looks and the features of the Kona a lot better, the Bolt doesn't come with smart cruise control, it looks and felt cheaper. And the Kona has more range, even though it's not a lot more. It charges slightly faster and I love that charge port on the front of the car, makes charging so much easier.
Click to expand...

Definitely think the Kona looks to be of higher quality from the interior and from memory rides a bit nicer too. However I'm almost certain that the 2020 Bolt has more range if only by a few miles, based upon official statements from the manufacturers, the Bolt's range was upgraded for 2020. I actually don't like the Kona's charge port even if it makes things easier, first on pure aesthetics the door of the port has a visible outline but what really bugs me about it are the flimsy corded caps that go over the ports themselves. The Bolt has nice little covers on hinges that swing out of the way rather than dangle along the front of the car. It's a nitpicky thing but for whatever reason it bugs me.

bwilson4web said:
I wish I had a nickel for every time I've heard that!
Click to expand...

So it's not just my local Chevy dealer then. The sales guy I worked with on my test ride was a tool. He kept calling the Regenerative braking "Reagan" or "raygen" to be more phonetic.

ab13 said:
If you are used to a smaller car and want a similar feel, you need to check on the turning radius of the vehicles you are testing.
Click to expand...

There is nothing in the US market that will do what the Smart car can do for turning radius. The i3 probably comes the closest but not the same.
 
Decisions are made on a given day from a known set of facts and data. The right decision at one time could be disaster at another:
  • May 23, 2016 - bought our end-of-lease, 2014 BMW i3-REx
  • March 26, 2019 - bought our new Standard Range Plus Model 3
You've mastered your requirements and knowledge of the market and I have no doubt that you'll get a car that you'll be happy with for years.

Bob Wilson
 
This is a bit interesting to me. I just got an approximate quote from my insurance provider. These are the annual rates for the cars I'm shopping.

Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus - $824

Chevrolet Bolt Premium - $819

Hyundai Kona Ultimate - $663

I should note that the Kona quote was based on a 2019 model as I could not find a VIN or even an example of a 2020 model. Kind of funny because my agent guessed that the Kona would be the most expensive before he got into the numbers. Also surprised the Bolt and Model 3 are so close in price.
 
If you go to CarGurus, you should be able to find a VIN for a 2020 Kona.

Here is one listed at a dealer in the Seattle area. KM8K23AG2LU065876
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top