Hello and Help

[Clamps]

Perhaps take your kayaks to the Tesla store and see if they will fit with the trunk open and seats folded down?

Bob Wilson

Wouldn't really work, I have sea kayaks and the shortest one is nearly 13ft long and the other is nearly 16ft.

 

[Clamps]

Just a bit of a recap from yesterday as I was tired and had the evening to think about all the cars.

2019/2020 Kona EV Ultimate
Fortunately for me my dealer has two Ceramic Blue Kona's on its' lot. None of the color choices from Hyundai get me excited but of the choices I favor the blue so that's good that it's available. Anyway, for me the Kona is the top pick of the three right now. It's the right size, great efficiency and very comfortable for the front seat occupants. The Ultimate is loaded with features as most of you know with the heated/cooled seats, HUD which I really liked and the adaptive cruise control. I liked the feel when driving and sitting higher in an SUV/crossover format has it's advantages for commuting and general driving but not for handling and I think that's an okay trade-off. I couldn't tell if the Kona has bad blindspots because the dealer sticker was plastered on the rear driver's side door. Every time I did a head check it blocked my view. There are a few misses on the Kona from my point of view, at least two memory positions for the seats and mirrors, roof rails, proper hinged caps over the charge ports, faster charge time, better wheel/front nose design and just a bit more polish/sophistication on the interior. One last miss and it's not really Hyundai's fault but I really wish the US had a more robust charging network.

2020 Chevy Bolt
This was the last car I drove after the Model 3 and Kona EV. I remember a few months ago I watched a video from Out of Spec motoring where they tested all three and they drove the Bolt first and claimed afterward do not drive the other two if you really want a Bolt and I think this is true. The Bolt has so many features and designs I like and really from an overall concept it's by far my favorite of the three. Love the size, love the hatchback design, love that it's a ground up EV and that translates into more roomy interior with a flat floor, love the big infotainment screen, love the roof rails and love the colors GM has on offer. I tested the cayenne orange and loved the look. So why does it rank third on my list? The instant you drive it you can feel the heaviness of the car, reviewers say it's snappy and I disagree it felt heavy to put into a turn and the steering response was only so-so. The car itself isn't slow and can really haul in a straight line. Got to do a few speed bursts in sport mode on the highway easily overtaking other cars. The seats, which are a major complaint from just about everyone I thought were okay. I'm on the skinny side and I think that helps as I stayed within the the limits of the padding. I also like the way the info is displayed in the driver's screen. What really put me off of the Bolt was the used 2017 I tested afterwards, it had 19k miles and the front seats looked like they just got out of an abusive relationship with the previous owner. They lost all form and were a bit on the dirty side. The car creaked a bit over bumps, I currently drive a 2017 EV and mine is like new. I would not buy a Bolt... I would consider leasing. The other main issue, much like the Kona is the slower charging rate compared to a Tesla and again not GM's fault but the charging infrastructure is poor.

2020 Tesla Model 3
A quick recap. The handling was sublime, the interface between driver, phone and car is on another level and the interior extremely comfortable. Fantastic charging network and rapid charging speeds. I didn't like the size, thought side view mirrors were small, thought the interior while very nice lacked a bit of polish, color choices are the worse of the three and I think the chrome accents and door handles look really dated.

Hope you don't mind me sharing. It really helps me process my thoughts with this exercise and if you current owners have anything to add in regard to my observations please feel free to contribute... it is a forum after all!

 

[Esprit1st]

Just a couple thoughts as a Kona owner. I believe roof rails shouldn't be a problem, Hyundai has them. They are available for the ice Kona, so you should be able to get them for the EV.

As for the charging network. Yes, I also think it's behind Tesla, BUT you can traverse the US and as long as you don't want to get into remote areas, you're good to go. Considering that the charging network - compared to Tesla - is still a few years behind, that's pretty good. And of course it's only getting better.

So apart from a few exceptions, and that depends of course on your personal needs, you are able to get to pretty much any point in the US.

 

[Clamps]

Just a couple thoughts as a Kona owner. I believe roof rails shouldn't be a problem, Hyundai has them. They are available for the ice Kona, so you should be able to get them for the EV.

As for the charging network. Yes, I also think it's behind Tesla, BUT you can traverse the US and as long as you don't want to get into remote areas, you're good to go. Considering that the charging network - compared to Tesla - is still a few years behind, that's pretty good. And of course it's only getting better.

So apart from a few exceptions, and that depends of course on your personal needs, you are able to get to pretty much any point in the US.

Nope, the roof rails cannot be added without major work, I'm involved in a thread over at the Kona page detailing that right now. We're talking taking down the headliner and drilling holes through the roof. Shame.

In my opinion there are two major differences between Electrify America and Tesla Supercharger network. While there may be close to the same amount of charging stations the quality is night and day. Most of the EA stations have one to two stalls where the Tesla network has a least six and I've seen up to 12. in my area (Northeast USA) I could only find one EA station that had six stalls. I don't like the odds that the stall may be unavailable when I'm on a long road trip. Plus the bulk of EA chargers on the east coast are no more than 50kw. Finally, Tesla is just plug and go, the car is already registered with your CC account, there is no bumbling around with apps or RFID cards and wondering if you're registered with all the providers in your area. It's just not an apples to apples comparison. I do agree that it will improve in the future as more non-Tesla vehicles hit the road.

 

[Esprit1st]

Well, I'd let the dealer install the roof racks. At least then they can't complain they don't make any money from EV owners ... [emoji2957]

Yes, the charging network is not as great, but it will get you to where you want to go. Yes, not as easily. And I had issues with quick chargers in the past as well, but I don't think it's as bad as most people try to make it sound like it is. Again, I'm definitely NOT saying there is no room for improvement. [emoji2957][emoji106]

 

[bwilson4web]

A Std Rng Plus Model 3 owner, you've fairly researched the car and associated SuperCharger network. I have no direct experience with the other two.

Given your requirements, the sea going kayaks, if not willing to trailer them, I would avoid roof rails. Even empty, roof rails risk adding drag. The Model Y is new and often the second year corrects a lot of infantile problems. As for the Cyber Truck, it is easily 2-3 years out.

I am not a fan of a car lease except as a bridge to a new technology. I've read too many cases of unexpected, 'end of lease' expenses. For example, our BMW i3-REx was 'end of lease' but came without the tire pump and goop kit and worn out tires. Given your kayaks, wear is likely and I am smiling at the thought of those huge kayaks on a BMW i3-REx. <GRINS>

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson

 

[HagerHedgie]

"A couple (very personal) thoughts about Tesla: I don't like their bate and switch method. First it's autopilot included, then it's extra, then it needs hardware update. Same with supercharging. You get it free, you don't, then you get it with referrals, then you don't, then you get a certain amount of supercharging miles, then they expire ... you just never know what you get and when."​

I own a 2019 Std Rng Plus Model 3 and once I had the car in my hands, I stopped following the sales terms and conditions. I paid for the car and got what I ordered. Did someone later get a better deal? GOOD FOR THEM! I got what I expected and really don't spend my life worrying about what others got.

I've got 22,774 miles on my car that I would not have gotten by 'waiting for a better deal.' I paid off my Std Rng Plus Model 3 from part of my TSLA stock. Yet some would claim that with their perfect 'hind sight', they would have gotten a better deal. Except they didn't. Perhaps you need to rethink your claims about perfect insight and tell us which stocks to buy and sell 3 days, 3 weeks, 3 months, or 3 years from now ... and guarantee the return.

Look if you or anyone else likes their particular EV, GREAT! It is not my job to tell you or anyone else what to like or not. I have a Tesla Std Rng Plus Model 3 with 22,774 miles totally paid off. Do you honestly think I could 'trade it in' and get you favorite ride and be happy? After all, I am a retired engineer and you are ... ?

I like my cars and hope you like your cars. Enjoy the difference and perhaps rejoice in what each of us likes. But let's not descend into 'I like mine and yours is not as good.'

Bob Wilson

Don’t forget Tesla M3 has better depreciation than any other new car out there so you could probably sell your Sr M3 with 22,000 miles on it for just a few thousand less than you paid for it. So if you get rid of the car tomorrow it would probably end up being cheaper than if you bought a 10 year old Prius and were lucky enough to not have to do anything but change the oil for 20,000 miles.
And that’s just a tiny part of the awesomeness of the Model 3.


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs

 

[HudsonKona]

Maybe I should elaborate a bit on the test drive. What stood out was the handling, specifically the steering. It's so tight and responsive and the car is planted on the road, I went though some nice twisty roads and at speed through turns entering the interstate and the car was unflappable. I had no issue getting used to the center console and had just a few issues tagging the screen buttons while moving. I only had the car for thirty minutes and that wasn't enough to tell much about battery usage. One of the strange surprises was the steering wheel, it looks oddly small and while I like the minimalist interior it lacks a certain polish for a luxury car.

When people say that Tesla is far ahead of everyone else in the EV game they aren't kidding. I would jump on this car in a second if it were smaller and preferably in a hatchback format. Would love to see what Tesla could do with their design team working with the footprint of a Chevy Bolt.

You want a sporty smaller hatchback EV? Go test drive a hyundai kona! You’ll get it.
I have one. What a great car!


Sent from my iPad using Inside EVs

 

[Clamps]

You want a sporty smaller hatchback EV? Go test drive a hyundai kona! You’ll get it.
I have one. What a great car!


Sent from my iPad using Inside EVs

Yes, the Kona is fantastic. The charging speed and charging network are the main two reasons I'm hesitant. There are a few other smaller quibbles too but that's really it.

 

[Esprit1st]

Yes, the charging speed is not up to date with a Tesla m3 or a brand new Ford mach e. But keep in mind that the jobs is technically 3 years old when it came to market first. Also with the new bms update they actually shaved off about 4 minutes for a 20 to 80% charge. So it's about 40-45 minutes? That is not too bad.

So if you like the car for "everything else" then I'd say it's your car!

 

[Clamps]

As for the charging network. Yes, I also think it's behind Tesla, BUT you can traverse the US and as long as you don't want to get into remote areas, you're good to go. Considering that the charging network - compared to Tesla - is still a few years behind, that's pretty good. And of course it's only getting better.

I need to correct myself about Electrify America. My statements were out of confusion and a bit of ignorance. I was looking at the PlugShare app and was lumping Electrify America in with all the other CCS chargers in my area. The good news, the EA chargers have at least three stations in most locations near me and some have a few more though I've not seen any more than six. Plus, these chargers are typically 150-300 kW, not that the Kona can handle that but speaking in broader terms that's really good. The bad news, the coverage isn't that great in New England, between Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine there are a total of two chargers and both are on the highway between Boston and Portland, ME.

Here is the NE map for Electrify America/Canada:

Here is the same area with only Tesla Superchargers:

 

[Esprit1st]

Haha, no problem. Well, it would be very impressive if EA would have been able to catch up to Teslas several years of head start that fast.

Although between all these providers you would think they would be further ahead.

 

[bwilson4web]

Here is the NE map for Electrify America/Canada:

You may want to also include CCS-1 in these two networks:

• EVgo
• ChargePoint

Granted, EVgo tends to be 50 kW limited and ChargePoint not much better. Still, 50 kW can be useful. It won't be a high-speed, trip, it won't be ended.

Bob Wilson

 

[Clamps]

You may want to also include CCS-1 in these two networks:

• EVgo
• ChargePoint

Yes, you are right on all counts. They fill in the gaps quite well but as you stated they are typically 50 kW and usually one stall.

 

[ericy]

Yes, you are right on all counts. They fill in the gaps quite well but as you stated they are typically 50 kW and usually one stall.

A lot of the EVgo they have been putting in near where I am are >50kW. Some 75kW, and I think one was >100kW. And multiple stalls too. Older ones are 50kW and one stall.

The ChargePoint around here usually are 50kW. There is a chain of gas stations that have pairs of the things. I use them from time to time..

The only one that I know of where there is just one stall is a free 50kW, and free tends to pull in a lot of people (lots of Uber drivers). That's the only one I have ever had to wait for, but the app tells me the status. There was a day when I was at the office, and I would periodically check - waiting for it to become idle. Once it was available, I went over to charge. Even that's a little imperfect however - if there is nobody waiting, some people will charge past 80%, and when someone shows up they immediately disconnect. I have seen that happen a couple of times..

 

[Clamps]

The deed is done! Welcome the newest member of the fleet and a fond farewell to my little Smart. I present Bulgogi, our new 2020 Hyundai Kona Ultimate.

Mrs. Clamps named the car well before I could come up with something so it will probably stick.

Thanks everyone for their insight and help.

 

[R P]

Congrats on your choice. And I admire the due diligence effort with making your decision. Also surprised you could get one so quickly. Certainly not the case in Canada.

 

[Fastnf]

congratulation, great color

 

[Clamps]

Also surprised you could get one so quickly. Certainly not the case in Canada.

There were quite a few in the area but only one blue Ultimate. As I liked that color most that was my biggest motivator. The car I bought was actually “sold” about a week ago but the deal fell through in financing.

 

[R P]

I actually liked that color, too. But our other car is a type of light blue, too. They call it Cool Grey Khaki, but it is more blue than grey. So for variety we got a red Kona, never had a red car before. The previous several vehicles were grey or silver, so had to stay from that. And the streets are full of black, white, grey, and silver cars. I also like the Ultimate trim with its extra bells and whistles. The perforated leather seats are very comfortable, and the active ventilated cooling really works well in the summer.

We've had a lot of complements and questions about our car at grocery store parking lots, and elsewhere.