If you plan to trade-in a vehicle, you might compare what each would offer. The trade-in value avoids sales tax. For example, I got $18.3k on our 2017 Prius Prime, 16k mi.
Bob Wilson
Bob Wilson
Hello and Help
- Thread starter Clamps
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Clamps
Active Member
Not trading in, i'm ending a lease.
FloridaSun
Well-Known Member
I think that if you want the best range for the money, it comes down to Kona and Niro base or Bolt. They all come out to around the same price when new.. While the Bolt no longer has the tax credit that Hyundai and Kia has, they have great incentives to bring the FINAL price of the Bolt close or even lower than Kona and Niro. The Kona and Niro are essentially the same car.. The Niro has more interior and trunk space while the Kona has more range. The Bolt is a proven platform but compared to the Niro and Kona, it's a little dated and accelerator response is not as good as on the Kona or Niro. I also prefer the ride quality of my Kona over the Bolt. For about the same price, I would go with the Kona but the Bolt is a great EV with a low degradation LG battery. Kona and Niro use very similar, slightly larger batteries from the same company. Really good batteries that should last longer than the rest of the car. Being in steamy Florida, I never seriously considered the Leaf due to the fan only cooling for the EV battery.. If it wasn't for the remaining tax credit for Kia or Hyundai, I would say that the best EV for the money would be the Standard Range Plus Model 3 but the lack of tax credit makes it about $10k more than Kona or Niro (base model)
Andre Laurence
Active Member
Just to note... You stated that you want the car to be physically small. The Bolt and Kona are similarly sized (Kona is a bit bigger than Bolt), but the Model 3 is a bigger car so I am not sure it fits into your requirement for small. As for those who suggest the Niro EV, it is a bigger car so I don't think it fits into your requirement either.
Regarding experience, the Kona and Bolt are generally reliable cars with good owner experience. I own the Niro EV and can attest to the reliability and can honestly say that it is the best car I have owned in over 30 years. The Kona Electric and 2020 Soul EV both have the same DNA as the Niro EV so with regards to reliability they are all good choices. I hope this helps.
Regarding experience, the Kona and Bolt are generally reliable cars with good owner experience. I own the Niro EV and can attest to the reliability and can honestly say that it is the best car I have owned in over 30 years. The Kona Electric and 2020 Soul EV both have the same DNA as the Niro EV so with regards to reliability they are all good choices. I hope this helps.
Clamps
Active Member
Yep, the Bolt and the Kona Are just a bit over 13 1/2 ft while the Model 3 is just under 15 1/2 ft. While I wish the Model 3 were smaller I’m giving it a pass for all of its other virtues. The Niro is actually shorter than the Model 3, just over 14 ft in length. I know it’s a nice SUV but it just doesn’t turn my head, it’s a completely subjective thing.
Good to read you think the Bolt and Kona are reliable. My wife and I used to own a Hyundai Santa Fe with a big V6, that truck was a beast in winter. It was extremely reliable and we had well over a 100,000 miles on it and then it was one problem after another and none of the repairs were cheap. Put me off Hyundai a bit but I’m willing to try again.
Andre Laurence
Active Member
I think what you experienced with your ICE Hyundai is normal. After 100K miles there are bound to be problems because there are so many moving parts in a combustion engine and transmission. You won't encounter those problems with an EV; there may be other issues, only time will tell, but if we look at older Teslas with extreme mileage, or even the original Chevy Volts with high mileage, they are not prone to many issue and even battery degradation is not an issue, it exists, but for the mileage driven it is well within expectations and even less.
Clamps
Active Member
You’re right. Without any negotiating I can get a Bolt Premier right around $32k, a Kona Ultimate for $34k and a Model 3 SR for $37.5k. The Bolt has gobs of incentives, the Kona still has the Fed tax credit and all of them are eligible for a Massachusetts state rebate of $2,500.
My wife likes the Tesla simply because it’s a Tesla, she’s always attracted to trendy and fashionable brands. Not diminishing the Tesla, it’s good it’s just funny that she could care which of the other two I choose if I decide the Tesla is not for me.
And that brings up the other issue, price. I prefer the Model 3 Long Range with the dual motor and that purchase price is right at $49k and the top of my budget. Plus, Massachusetts will not offer a rebate on the long range model as it’s too expensive so all the money come out of my pocket.
ericy
Well-Known Member
If you do enough reading, you find that there are pluses and minuses to each car that might or might not be relevant to you.
Then you get into trim levels and optional features that can run up the cost a lot, and you need to make a call as to how much any of these features are worth it to you.
My own off-the-top of my head list is:
Bolt: Plus - generally available, attractive pricing. Minus - no more tax rebate, some people find the seats uncomfortable. People who have driven Tesla or Kona generally don't care for the Bolt.
Kona: Plus - most people who have them love them (that's what I have). Comfortable seats - I like sitting up a bit higher than one would sit in a normal sedan (model Y wasn't available when I got mine). Tax rebate still available, which chops a good chunk off of the price. Minus - can be hard to find, not all states have them. Top level trim adds $$ to the price.
Tesla: Plus - everyone who has one seems to love it. Minus - priciest of the bunch, and no more tax rebate. Add in lots of $$ for autopilot if that's important to you. I would be curious to see stats for how many people buy a Tesla without autopilot.
Then you get into trim levels and optional features that can run up the cost a lot, and you need to make a call as to how much any of these features are worth it to you.
My own off-the-top of my head list is:
Bolt: Plus - generally available, attractive pricing. Minus - no more tax rebate, some people find the seats uncomfortable. People who have driven Tesla or Kona generally don't care for the Bolt.
Kona: Plus - most people who have them love them (that's what I have). Comfortable seats - I like sitting up a bit higher than one would sit in a normal sedan (model Y wasn't available when I got mine). Tax rebate still available, which chops a good chunk off of the price. Minus - can be hard to find, not all states have them. Top level trim adds $$ to the price.
Tesla: Plus - everyone who has one seems to love it. Minus - priciest of the bunch, and no more tax rebate. Add in lots of $$ for autopilot if that's important to you. I would be curious to see stats for how many people buy a Tesla without autopilot.
I'm pretty sure AutoPilot is included in the current Model 3. Full Self Driving is $7k today but expected to go to $8k in May.
Bob Wilson
My understanding was the standard range (off menu) model didn't include it. That appears to be the one he noted.
Clamps
Active Member
This is the core of my problem, depending on which way the wind is blowing on any given day I like one over the others. I suppose the good thing is that is always comes down to these three cars. Never had this problem with ICE cars in the past, one always just spoke to me and that was that.
I think when it comes down to it and I actually make the purchase I'll be happy. I don't think any of them are inherently bad.
R P
Well-Known Member
Have you taken your top candidates for a test ride? That's how I always make my final decisions. The internet and reviews can be very biased and misleading. And so much depends on your own individual needs/wants and what tickles your fancy. What appeals to one person may be very different than to another. Otherwise we would all be buying the same cars, right?...LOL.
ericy
Well-Known Member
If nothing else, there is the question of how does it feel to sit in. If you are tall, getting in and out of a car can sometimes be a pain. You can read all the reviews you want, but until you actually sit in the car you won't know.
Seat comfort is another very subjective thing. Even a test drive really isn't good enough, but it still tells you something. The question you are trying to answer there is that if you went on a 2-hour drive, would you need to stop along the way just to stretch your legs and give your butt a break? If that's the case, then the seats probably aren't good for you. And for that matter how well can you adjust the seats?
What is your intended use for the back seat? Do you expect to have passengers? If so, will there be enough legroom back there for the passengers you expect to carry? Smaller cars are always going to be more problematic in this area. If you rarely haul human adults back there then it isn't as much of a concern.
Clamps
Active Member
I've taken the Kona and Bolt for a test ride but the Bolt was three years ago when I was deciding between it and my electric Smart. I drove the Kona last year. In as much as you can get from a test ride I liked them both fine. I've only sat in a Model 3 in a showroom and again that was maybe a few years ago, I don't really have a strong memory. I was planning a test ride through the Tesla showroom this spring but then Covid happened.
I really need to personally reacquaint myself with all three when I get the chance.
As I sit here typing I think I could easily choose between the Bolt or Kona if they had a charging network that was as robust as Tesla's.
R P
Well-Known Member
Not sure what the charging infrastructure is in your area, but have you checked plugshare.com? Where I live, we have a lot of free chargers (non-Tesla), and they are everywhere, and no shortage of places to get a charge.
My son owns a model 3 and he bought an adapter (very expensive) so he could use the chademo chargers (free ones in our area) so he didn't have to charge at a Tesla station (they are not free). He needed it also because here the other non-Tesla chargers are far more prevalent and in some areas (off the beaten track), they don't even have any Tesla fast chargers. So I guess it depends on where you live.
And yes, definitely take the M3, and the others for a test ride to compare. I have a Kona and my son has the M3, and I can tell you that I definitely prefer the Kona, although it is not perfect either. Pros and cons on both sides, but again like I said, depends more on what is important to you.
Clamps
Active Member
This is something I've thought about, we don't really have extra passengers in the car. It happens occasionally when family or friends visit but it isn't often. That's why the Smart car worked out so well for us. Between the two smaller EV's the Bolt clearly has more rear seat passenger room than the Kona.
Clamps
Active Member
Yes, since I have an electric car, even though the range is quite minimal I've used Chargepoint and PlugShare apps. The problem is that even though they are abundant they are usually only one or two stations and they are usually occupied. And many of them are in parking garages and lots you have to pay to park. Many are free, around here I'd say 50%, most are level 2. With my car having an effective range of about 80 miles I don't explore much beyond the no return point not wanting to wait for a spot to clear and a random charger. Whenever I see a Supercharger station there are usually around eight charging spots and at least one spot available.
In truth I wouldn't need to fast charge all that often. My wife and I take road trips to Portland, ME, about 100 miles away. About the farthest we drive is Toronto, ON which is about 560 miles from us.
ericy
Well-Known Member
I can make this observation - most people assume that most of their charging will need to be DC fast charging, but that's because they are coming from ICE cars, and with an ICE car you need to go to a station to refuel. Conceptually sort of similar. But the vast majority of people end up charging at home. The price per kWh is generally the best, and it is obviously the most convenient (assuming you have a spot at home to do this). And for that matter the time to charge is inconsequential given that charging is generally done overnight while you are sleeping.
Finally, in cold weather you can precondition the cabin (turn on the heat) before you actually need to leave - this uses power from the mains and doesn't deplete the battery. If you weren't charging at home, you probably wouldn't do this.
It ends up only being longer trips - longer than the range of the car where fast charging enters into the picture. Even here - there are destination chargers at hotels, and all EVs come with a granny charger that will plug into a 120V outlet - if you are going to visit friends/family, they might let you plug into their 120V outlet to recharge. So that can cut the need for fast charging even more.
In the end, you have to consider any places you might wish to travel that exceed the range of the car and where destination charging isn't viable - that's the sweet spot for the DC chargers. With CCS, it isn't quite as nice as Tesla, but the buildout has been amazingly fast. The place Tesla really has it right now is that they support faster charging, so less time spent at the charger. The newer Electrify America chargers support charging at up to 350kW - far faster than any car on the road right now. But they have future-proofed the thing, and this spurs the car manufacturers to work to increase the charging rates.
I grew up in Oklahoma where driving a 100 miles on a whim is normal. Today, my family lives in:
- Coffeyville KS - Where my Mom lives.
- Stillwater OK - Where Mom and Dad came and Aunts, Uncles, and Cousins
- Phenix AZ - Where brother George lives.
- Tucson AZ - Where brother Will lives.
- Los Angles CA - Where Mom's sister lives.
- Seattle WA - Where brother Charles lives.
- New Haven CT - Where brother Dave lives.
- Huntsville AL - Where my wife, her dogs, and I live.
- $2.75/100 mi when I pay, less when I mix in local, free L2 chargers.
- $3.00-3.50/100 mi when using Tesla SuperChargers with lower cost from staying overnight in motels with free breakfasts and overnight charging.
Bob Wilson
ps. I did not include the BMW i3-REx even though it costs about 10-50% more expensive, even burning gas, as our Model 3.
Note that EVgo has started installing an additional connector to their stations in San Francisco where you can also charge a Tesla . My guess is that they will continue upgrade their equipment though out California and then nation wide. As it just makes sense, other DC charging operators will do the same thing.
https://www.evgo.com/tesla-charging/
https://www.evgo.com/tesla-charging/