Has anyone tried towing with their Clarity?

[Landshark]

Hope you're joking. You can get metal hitches that angle or build up. I would not do that with douglas fir!

Would you do it with oak or mahogany?

Someone did it. Someone also towed a trailer a considerable distance with a Clarity. There’s a thread on this forum about the experience.

No one can stop another person from doing what they believe they can do, despite guidance from the manufacturer of the product.

Yes, you can tow something with a Clarity. You can also get drunk at a bar and drive home or use a hair dryer while standing in a tub full of water. The choice is yours.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Hope you're joking. You can get metal hitches that angle or build up. I would not do that with douglas fir!

Got one for our hitch carrier, which did drag on steep - and not-so-steep - inclines.

Yes, you can tow something with a Clarity. You can also get drunk at a bar and drive home or use a hair dryer while standing in a tub full of water. The choice is yours.

People assess risk in wildly different ways. Take putting 240v into the stock charger, for instance. For some it’s a disaster waiting to happen; for others, reasonably safe. Same with towing. We never have, because we have other vehicles designed for such. I wouldn’t hesitate to tow a very light load a reasonably short distance with the Clarity in a pinch, but I don’t expect anyone’s risk analysis to correlate with mine!

 

[Landshark]

People assess risk in wildly different ways. Take putting 240v into the stock charger, for instance. For some it’s a disaster waiting to happen; for others, reasonably safe. Same with towing. We never have, because we have other vehicles designed for such. I wouldn’t hesitate to tow a very light load a reasonably short distance with the Clarity in a pinch, but I don’t expect anyone’s risk analysis to correlate with mine!

You’re absolutely correct. Everyone assesses risk differently.

Just yesterday, a woman on a bicycle was killed by hit and run driver, less than 3 miles from our house on a road where we frequently ride our bikes. I know full well that my life could end the same way. However, the manufacturer of my bicycle does not expressly state that the bike is not designed to be used on public roads. I’m using the equipment for it’s intended purpose.

The Tork-lift hitch is a robustly built device. The weak link is that we’ve bolted it to points on the car that are designed to crumple in an accident. And, Honda states in the manual that the vehicle is not designed to tow. Adding a drop/riser, adds a lever to the receiver.

One of the members of our RV group, recently had a 10,000lb rated hitch completely shear off the the frame while towing a 5000lb vehicle. The cause of the failure may never be known. It is simply an example that a catastrophic failure can occur even when using equipment for its designed purpose, and within the limits of the rated capacities.

The RV world is awash with examples of people successfully overloading their equipment. They’re all “fine” because they’ve “been doing it for years without a problem” and they “have the skills to do it safely” and they “know what they’re doing” etc, etc.

 

[Random.Clarity]

The risk assumed by towing is a personal decision here. But beyond short trips around town I would hate to tow anything with only 103hp once the battery is drained.

 

[Landshark]

The risk assumed by towing is a personal decision here.

Until the towing occurs on public roads.

 

[Random.Clarity]

Until the towing occurs on public roads.

Don't worry, there's already plenty of idiots on the road out there. One more (depending on your opinion) makes no appreciable difference.

Now, to actually add to this discussion, we can look at some of the volt owners who towed. I recall at least one person who found out that repeated towing results in the unibody separating. It turns out chevy wasn't kidding when they said it wasn't designed to tow. Could this also be the case here?

 

[Fast Eddie B]

One of the members of our RV group, recently had a 10,000lb rated hitch completely shear off the the frame while towing a 5000lb vehicle. The cause of the failure may never be known. It is simply an example that a catastrophic failure can occur even when using equipment for its designed purpose, and within the limits of the rated capacities.

The RV world is awash with examples of people successfully overloading their equipment. They’re all “fine” because they’ve “been doing it for years without a problem” and they “have the skills to do it safely” and they “know what they’re doing” etc, etc.

Off topic tangent…

We bought an aluminum travel trailer. We decided to use a Ford Flex as a tow vehicle. The trailer specs said the tongue weight was 440 lbs. The maximum for the Flex is 450 lbs. So, close but just in limits.

Which was fine, until one day we weighed the tongue and were a bit dismayed to find that loaded normally the tongue weight was 620 lbs. What to do?

Through an online forum, we found a place in London, Ontario that specializes in beefing up smaller cars to tow bigger loads. On the Flex, the receiver was just hanging from sheet metal unibody. The fix was to weld on a beefy reinforcing bar that ran the load forward to the rear suspension:

Anyway, over 20,000 uneventful and happy miles of towing to date.

As an aside, I’m a member of the Experimental Aircraft Association, and own an Experiment Light Sport plane. As such, I’m not adverse to judicious experimenting, which again as served me well so far. But to each their own, and you do you!

 

[Landshark]

We bought an aluminum travel trailer. We decided to use a Ford Flex as a tow vehicle. The trailer specs said the tongue weight was 440 lbs. The maximum for the Flex is 450 lbs. So, close but just in limits.

Which was fine, until one day we weighed the tongue and were a bit dismayed to find that loaded normally the toungue weight was 620 lbs. What to do?

Travel trailer manufacturers, almost always, provide a tongue weight for a dry/empty trailer. Tongue weight should be 10-12% of the total trailer weight. I’d bet your TT weighed 4400lbs as delivered. As you discovered, adding weight to the trailer increases the tongue weight.

Your tandem axle trailer is probably equipped with 2, 3500lb axles, and may have a GVWR as high as 7000lbs. Your tongue weight indicates a trailer weight between 5200-6200lbs, if properly loaded. However, the tongue weight is merely a result of putting stuff in the trailer, so the ratio may not be within spec. Once you know the total weight of the trailer, axle weight plus tongue weight, you’ll be able to determine the correct tongue weight. You may be able to actually reduce the amount of weight on the hitch.

Vehicle manufacturers follow a similar practice with their maximum numbers. The 450lb maximum tongue weight indicates that the Flex has a 4500lb maximum towing capacity. Ford typically leans toward the 10% formula. The car as a whole is designed to tow a trailer that weighs, at most, 4500lbs, and has, at most, a 450lb tongue weight. There’s more to it than just ripping the hitch receiver off the car.

What’s the curb weight of the car? What’s the payload or passenger and cargo carrying capacity? The tongue weight needs to be subtracted from the payload figure. What’s the GCVWR for the Flex? Why tire pressure are you running when towing?

Flying in an experimental aircraft can be thrilling. I’ve done it. A mishap will likely only bring harm to the pilot and/or passenger(s). Experimenting with vehicles and weights on public roads could bring harm to others. To each their own only goes so far. Nearly everything we do has, or can have an impact on others.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Thanks for your concern. I just don’t care to derail this thread further.

Back to towing with a Clarity!

 

[Landshark]

Thanks for your concern. I just don’t care to derail this thread further.

Back to towing with a Clarity!

We’re 90 posts in now and the Clarity still isn’t designed to tow. If we stay on topic, there really isn’t that much to talk about.

You’ve obviously learned something about trailer weights since buying yours. It might benefit some members who are towing-curious, to hear some discussion about towing, even as it relates to other vehicles.

You seemed eager to share your towing set up with us, including photos. I mistakenly assumed that you might want to carry on a bit.

 

[Emagin]

I am towing furniture in my Clarity with trailer over pretty steep grade, very windy road. See here:
Anybody tow a trailer with their Clarity PHEV?

 

[Landshark]

Now, to actually add to this discussion, we can look at some of the volt owners who towed. I recall at least one person who found out that repeated towing results in the unibody separating. It turns out chevy wasn't kidding when they said it wasn't designed to tow. Could this also be the case here?

Thanks for actually adding to the discussion. Now, if those of us who own a Clarity, ever buy a Volt, we know to, at least consider, following the guidance provided by the manufacturer in the manual.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Still haven’t towed, but the hitch and carrier came in handy this morning for a trip to recycling:

We normally use our Ridgeline for this, but the kids were using it this week.

 

[Emagin]

Test Run One - July 2021

• Towing a DK2 trailer 400lbs with about 200-300 lbs of furniture = 700 lbs
• Torklift EcoHitch Kit - self installed
• Torklift Taillight converter WH63265

Uphill - EV mode great of course, but power runs out on mountains, then ICE mode
Kept 'RPMs' indicator down to 3-4 lines and slowed down as needed to keep it low
ICE definitely revving higher but not crazy bees activity

Downhill - braking and regen seems to be working, although all EV regen seems lessened. That is, it takes longer for the regen to get above 0.0 when downhill, as it seems the engine is estimating/predicting how much juice it needs from the battery, based on the higher EV battery load uphill usage.

 

[Emagin]

Test Run Two - August 2021



10 Day Drive from Wyoming to CA with 1,100 lb Teardrop Trailer - 3000 miles with side trips
Highest Pass - 10,000 ft
Grades - not sure, I did route planning to avoid the steepest of grades
ICE - I learned to use autopilot in flat freeways.
I drove manual on any hills and kept 'RPMs' to line 3,4 of circle display
Preferred to go very slow (35mph sometimes) and keep the ICE from revving too high

Fuel Mileage - Dropped from 43(ish) to avg 30 for the trip - all ICE I did not mess with EV
Tank Indicator - Dropped/adjusted from 300mi to 220mi after 2-3 tanks worth of towing



Trailer: 2018 T@G Teardrop NuCamp
1100 Lbs. dry weight
200 Lbs. gear in car
1 passenger

Hardware:
Hitch: Curt 45240 flipped for 4"rise to get to 18" for Trailer
See previous post for Torklift ecohitch receiver and wiring

 

[Heino]

Test Run Two - August 2021

10 Day Drive from Wyoming to CA with 1,100 lb Teardrop Trailer - 3000 miles with side trips
Highest Pass - 10,000 ft
Grades - not sure, I did route planning to avoid the steepest of grades

Thanks for posting this… you absolutely confirmed that the Clarity is capable of towing a small trailer and tear drop camper.

I finally got my hitch installed last weekend… wish I would have ordered the the trailer wiring kit as well. That will be a future project.

For now, I am happy to use a bike rack again.

Also, getting 30 mpg on your trip isn’t too shabby either. There are a lot of other vehicles on the road which get much less without pulling anything.

 

[Emagin]

Thanks @Heino - It is something I continue to do for trips in the west coast.
I continue to drive <65 on freeways and keep the power/"rpm" gauge < 12 o'clock, slowing way down on steep mountains just to be safe and not tax the transmission.
MPG has sometimes dipped to 28, but remains in the 30 range overall when towing.

 

[insightman]

slowing way down on steep mountains just to be safe and not tax the transmission

The only time there's an actual "transmission" in play is when you're in Engine-Drive Mode (sometimes called "Gear Mode" because of the gear that appears between the wheels on the power-flow screen). The Clarity only activates that mode when you use HV, are traveling faster than 45 mph, and not pressing too hard on the accelerator pedal. When that single-speed gearing is not using the engine to propel your Clarity, the traction motor is doing all the work.

 

[Emagin]

Thanks for that @insightman
I am really keying off the high RPMs of 'a' motor revving. I do not understand what you stated here all that well, but I'll start reading more. When I hear the 'angry bees' and some motor is spinning hard and fast, I slow down, ease up on the pedal. I hope that is helping something..... (?)

The only time there's an actual "transmission" in play is when you're in Engine-Drive Mode (sometimes called "Gear Mode" because of the gear that appears between the wheels on the power-flow screen). The Clarity only activates that mode when you use HV, are traveling faster than 45 mph, and not pressing too hard on the accelerator pedal. When that single-speed gearing is not using the engine to propel your Clarity, the traction motor is doing all the work.

 

[insightman]

Thanks for that @insightman
I am really keying off the high RPMs of 'a' motor revving. I do not understand what you stated here all that well, but I'll start reading more. When I hear the 'angry bees' and some motor is spinning hard and fast, I slow down, ease up on the pedal. I hope that is helping something..... (?)

When designing their plug-in hybrid car Honda (and Chevy) discovered that at speeds over 45 mph, it's more efficient to connect the engine to the wheels through gears than to have the engine generate electricity to power the electric traction motor. Because plug-in hybrids are all about efficiency, Honda implemented the extra hardware and software required to make the mechanical connection between the engine and the driving wheels and called it Engine Drive mode.

Engine Drive mode can happen only when you've selected HV because that's when the Clarity's computer brain can decide the most efficient way to move the car down the road. In HV, the Clarity can select battery power only (EV mode), battery+engine/generator power (Hybrid Drive mode), or Engine Drive mode (the battery can contribute here, too). Here's a chart I made years ago that illustrates the different drive modes. The bottom right corner, Zero-Regen Engine Braking was pure speculation on my part. Also, the 212-hp in Engine Drive mode is incorrect--I still don't understand how more than 181-hp is possible.