The EX30 already has the charge port in the proper location. They'll be able to switch to NACS easily enough.
They definitely should...
Ford makes deal with Tesla to share its Supercharger network
- Thread starter Domenick
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The EX30 already has the charge port in the proper location. They'll be able to switch to NACS easily enough.
They definitely should...
Would China allow a connector whose name begins with "North American?" Do Chinese Teslas have NACS connectors? If all Chinese cars go NACS, Geely/Volvo will be swept along in that wave.
I meant that they should switch to NACS for vehicles built for North America. There is no way that the rest of the world will change anyway.
Domenick
Well-Known Member
Enjoy the Open House. That sounds awesome.
Re EX30, there's a chance it will come with native NACs. I've little doubt Volvo/Polestar will go NACS for North America, it's a question of how fast can they change this element on the production vehicles already engineered.
hobbit
Well-Known Member
Y'know, Bob, on further reflection, that's pretty insulting. It sounds like
you'd rather retreat behind the fanboi wall, rather than actually help move
things forward. If you're warm and happy in your pile of crap, I hear you
saying, then have fun with that and keep your mouth shut, kthxbai.
Look, I try to see big-picture and where things can improve across the
industry. Tesla has great infrastructure, I'll be among the first to agree
with that, but I want them to make it more publicly *accessible* without
compromising peoples' privacy, either through themselves or third-parties,
just to be able to play. "Download our app from google" does not qualify.
That's disingenuous and rude to those not-so-few of us left who actually care
about these things. Tesla needs to start offering alternatives.
And I've been agreeing all along that CCS has its many warts, be it 1 or 2,
and maybe should never have been pushed forward as it stands as "the standard",
but basically I just want it to work right. The percentage of CCS, especially
in the US, which doesn't work right on a regular basis is a miserable
indictment of that sector.
I don't want to hear Musk telling me "sorry, you bought the wrong thing, because
now that I'm king I say so". He needs to cooperate, not simply compete and
ignore large swaths of people with similar goals. Ultimately I want to be able to
freely drive up to and use rapid-charge equipment with CCS *or* Not (yet) A Charging
Standard output, in a way that my present vehicle understands, preferably
having set myself up so that any candidate network knows about my theoretically
Autocharge-compatible car and can easily find my payment deets.
Most of this is a matter of software, along with a few connector fixups, and
shouldn't really be that hard to proceed with on all fronts once the political
impediments fall. Will they ever? I have no idea. I had to buy into the
EV market at *some* point, and to be told a very few years later that I made
the wrong decision is effing INFURIATING. How many people ragged on you in
the early days for buying a Prius? How did that make you feel?
_H*
Sandy Munro conversation with Ford:
Bob Wilson
Bob Wilson
We've known each other for more than 10 years and I have great respect:
In my Prius days, I found critics in news articles and had to hunt down their original work. Then it was like 'field dressing' game to cite and correct their mistakes. The same exists today in the EV market but I learned a valuable lesson ... post only about something that has my finger prints on it.
The most disappointing case was buying an SAE paper from University of Georgia that mentioned quantifying 'hypermiling' only to realize they had made a fundamental mistake and also an understatement (i.e., not usable in traffic.) I had done my own benchmark comparing pulse and glide versus cruise control and found the improvement was about 15% for the same average speed.
I'm doing some Tesla Model 3 benchmarks Saturday/Sunday. I may repeat the same protocol 'pulse and glide' vs cruise control at the same average speed.
Bob Wilson
So you think I'm a 'fanboi'? I thought you knew me better.
It is called a disposable phone. There was about 3-4 hours on January 6, 2021 when there was no Trump phone records even from his official cell phone. Many of us suspect he had a 'throw away' phone that has long since passed through a shredder. Disposable cell phones are amazingly cheap and the credit card used at a CCS-1 charger would work too. A skeptic might wonder if some want a coin operated payment device be put on or at every CCS-1 and/or Supercharger.
I tried them with her BMW i3-REx and it was 4x more expensive than gas and the benchmark trip time more than twice as slow. My first CCS-1 experiences, only 2 of 3 attempts worked even after 45 minutes of debugging each time including with support on the cell phone.
Elon uses the free market. The customers decide.
With one exception, none to my face. After a demo drive, an 'earth mother' woman told me that Prius were running down the blind, pedestrians, and bicyclists. A year or so later, she was the only other employee with a Prius that she used to commute and work on her 'project farm.' She once had three bales of hay in her car in the parking lot but would not put on a receiver hitch and a trailer.
In my Prius days, I found critics in news articles and had to hunt down their original work. Then it was like 'field dressing' game to cite and correct their mistakes. The same exists today in the EV market but I learned a valuable lesson ... post only about something that has my finger prints on it.
The most disappointing case was buying an SAE paper from University of Georgia that mentioned quantifying 'hypermiling' only to realize they had made a fundamental mistake and also an understatement (i.e., not usable in traffic.) I had done my own benchmark comparing pulse and glide versus cruise control and found the improvement was about 15% for the same average speed.
I'm doing some Tesla Model 3 benchmarks Saturday/Sunday. I may repeat the same protocol 'pulse and glide' vs cruise control at the same average speed.
Bob Wilson
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hobbit
Well-Known Member
A clarifying analogy, perhaps: Most of my "device" and computer and related gear is still micro-USB-B. I have
cables to deal with that. I have recently acquired a couple of USB-C devices, and am building a small collection
of cables to deal with that ... but for the most part, those two flavors of cables go back to a bog-standard full
size USB-A connector at the other end, so for the most part I'm able to plug together anything I have and at
least charge it, if not actually shoot data across. At that level it all boils down to 5V across the power leads,
and whatever happens outside of that is up to protocols. If two connected devices understand a better
quick-charge protocol, great, that's maybe like pulling up to a newer charger with an 800V car and having
both ends understand that. But it doesn't leave other users high and dry, it simply falls back to something
more common.
Now, things are eventually moving to an all-USB-C ecosystem, but not in an exclusionary way. USB A
and B aren't dead, they will just get adapted to where needed. Vehicle fast-charging needs to maintain
a similar philosophy and make it work.
_H*
cables to deal with that. I have recently acquired a couple of USB-C devices, and am building a small collection
of cables to deal with that ... but for the most part, those two flavors of cables go back to a bog-standard full
size USB-A connector at the other end, so for the most part I'm able to plug together anything I have and at
least charge it, if not actually shoot data across. At that level it all boils down to 5V across the power leads,
and whatever happens outside of that is up to protocols. If two connected devices understand a better
quick-charge protocol, great, that's maybe like pulling up to a newer charger with an 800V car and having
both ends understand that. But it doesn't leave other users high and dry, it simply falls back to something
more common.
Now, things are eventually moving to an all-USB-C ecosystem, but not in an exclusionary way. USB A
and B aren't dead, they will just get adapted to where needed. Vehicle fast-charging needs to maintain
a similar philosophy and make it work.
_H*
pictsidhe
Well-Known Member
Tesla charging acceptance would be a lot higher if they let CCS cars charge at stations other than the half dozen with the magic-dock.
Teslas can charge at any CCS station, but CCS cars are locked out of almost all superchargers.
If Musk wants everyone to use Tesla, he needs to let everyone use Tesla.
With the current clusterpuck that is the CCS network, he could kill it off just by opening up his superchargers.
Teslas can charge at any CCS station, but CCS cars are locked out of almost all superchargers.
If Musk wants everyone to use Tesla, he needs to let everyone use Tesla.
With the current clusterpuck that is the CCS network, he could kill it off just by opening up his superchargers.
A press release is not a production product. Over time, it is coming.
Bob Wilson
Bob Wilson
There currently 11 locations with Magic Dock.
You don't change everything at once. You start with a small amount, test, and improve it if there is a demand for the product. So be patient.
Dan Dumitriu
New Member
Absolutely. As a consumer I am following the standards set by government when I make major purchasing decisions.
Yes the Tesla charging may seem better at the moment but I don’t have that many problems with EA either, except some congestion recently but for now Im staying the course and eventually things will get better … Europe is a perfect model.
Elon is clearly focused on eliminating competition and I can’t see how Ford and GM are benefiting from this.
Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
- Less cost, the Tesla socket is smaller and less expensive than CCS-1.
- Fewer customer complaints.
Bob Wilson
Dan Dumitriu
New Member
No need, I don’t see either US or Canada changing their plans to subsidize NACS exclusively anytime soon and they’ve already stated that the subsidies are dependent on adding a CCS connector.
Tesla wants government subsidies while using it as a tool for controlling the market.
In a year or so I’m sure US and Canada will be at the level Europe is today.
Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
I failed to find a non-copyright imaged so made these:
Bob Wilson
- Top is 350 kW rated CCS-1
- Middle is 9.6 kW rated J1772
- Lower is 9.6 kW rated Tesla portable plug
- Top is 9.6 kW J1772 plug
- Middle is 250 kW Tesla Supercharger plug
- Bottom is 9.6 kW Tesla portable plug
Bob Wilson
Rough, first combined version with normalized sizes:
No copyright, Robert Wilson 10 June 2023.