Ford makes deal with Tesla to share its Supercharger network

Keith Smith said:
If Tesla doesn't clean up their billing/charging systems, they will rapidly find people will flood to alternatives as they become available.
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Are you referring to the Tesla app non-Tesla drivers now have to use at the MagicDock-equipped Superchargers? Am I correct that Tesla drivers (and soon Ford, GM, Rivian, and Volvo EV drivers) don't need an app? They just plug in and Tesla bills their credit card for the charge, right? Nothing to clean up there--it's exactly what I would want (but will never have in my MINI EV).

The comparatively enormous number of Superchargers and their reliability would seem to give Tesla a big enough edge to compensate for the hassle of using the Tesla app for those drivers of EVs whose manufacturers didn't pony up the required tribute for automatic, app-free billing.
 
insightman said:
Are you referring to the Tesla app non-Tesla drivers now have to use at the MagicDock-equipped Superchargers? Am I correct that Tesla drivers (and soon Ford, GM, Rivian, and Volvo EV drivers) don't need an app? They just plug in and Tesla bills their credit card for the charge, right? Nothing to clean up there--it's exactly what I would want (but will never have in my MINI EV).

The comparatively enormous number of Superchargers and their reliability would seem to give Tesla a big enough edge to compensate for the hassle of using the Tesla app for those drivers of EVs whose manufacturers didn't pony up the required tribute for automatic, app-free billing.
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They will be using their native app of FordPass or Ultium Charge 360 and Tesla gets to harvest the data in exchange.
 
I'm happy to pay for my charges, whatever network I happen to be on. I'll be happy to spring for my own
NACS --> CCS adapter whenever they start being made. I'm not telling any network to retrofit one plug
or the other. I just want any network that claims to be a public resource to make their facilities truly
public and accessible. And not only via one method.

That's not flame bait, you completely missed the point. The ovdrarching problem is political, not technological
or about differently shaped pieces of plastic.

_H*
 
hobbit said:
Why does any given automaker have to strike a "deal" with Tesla to let their products use superchargers?
That's not serving the public in an equitable way. Any CCS car whose owner can deal with Tesla's effed-up
payment structure and has an appropriate adapter (soon) should be able to roll up and charge.

This continued exclusionist BS on several fronts is really holding the entire industry back far more than
is remotely warranted.

_H*
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In order for plug-and-charge to work properly, there needs to be a backend integration. For example, Ford wants their people to be able to use the FordPass app, and not need to have to use the Tesla app.

If you only need Magic Dock level of integration, then no real deal is required. But Tesla hasn't really rolled out much in the way of Magic Dock.
 
ericy said:
In order for plug-and-charge to work properly, there needs to be a backend integration. For example, Ford wants their people to be able to use the FordPass app, and not need to have to use the Tesla app.

If you only need Magic Dock level of integration, then no real deal is required. But Tesla hasn't really rolled out much in the way of Magic Dock.
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I would prefer "no app" (no data sharing) with a cellphone, just a simple system to load up funds to a charge account on a normal PC (just like RFID cards) with the software integrated into the car for identification. No additional hardware required except for an adaptor.
A car equipped with CCS port would use a NACS to CCS adaptor, and a car with a NACS port could additionally have a CCS to NACS adaptor, giving opportunities to charge anywhere utilizing whatever connectors are readily available without having to modify existing charging equipment.
Of course, level 2 (at home or public) NACS equipped EVs would require another J1772 to NACS adaptor like the regular Tesla EVs use if using a J1772 EVSE. CCS equipped EVs charging at a destination charger would obviously need a second NACS to J1772 adaptor readily available (Lectron) for example.
 
electriceddy said:
I would prefer "no app" (no data sharing) with a cellphone, just a simple system to load up funds to a charge account on a normal PC (just like RFID cards) with the software integrated into the car for identification. No additional hardware required except for an adaptor.
A car equipped with CCS port would use a NACS to CCS adaptor, and a car with a NACS port could additionally have a CCS to NACS adaptor, giving opportunities to charge anywhere utilizing whatever connectors are readily available without having to modify existing charging equipment.
Of course, level 2 (at home or public) NACS equipped EVs would require another J1772 to NACS adaptor like the regular Tesla EVs use if using a J1772 EVSE. CCS equipped EVs charging at a destination charger would obviously need a second NACS to J1772 adaptor readily available (Lectron) for example.
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I wonder what will happen? Follow the money.
 
hobbit said:
I'll be happy to spring for my own
NACS --> CCS adapter whenever they start being made.
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They are now (scroll down);)
7_1cbccf14-1cf8-4174-b598-7ad700ec2317.png
 
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insightman said:
$308 gets you an adapter with this disclaimer:

This product is for presentation purposes. Tesla hasn't yet opened their supercharger network to all EV's.
This product will be very useful around 2024/2025.
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I noticed that also.
Warranty on the Adapter is 12 months, so best to purchase spring or early summer 2024 and not before.
At least one manufacture has produced one, without a doubt Lectron will probably have one available within too long... competition will likely lower the price.
The way I see it, the pinout configuration probably interconnects the DC portion of the pins from the 2 pin NACS to the lower DC pins of the CCS inlet port, enabling DC charging.
(Of course, the proximity and com pins would also be interconnected).
If one was to connect to a destination charger (A/C EVSE) to this adapter, I would hope that wouldn't have a detrimental affect applying A/C to the DC pins of an existing CCS inlet port while trying to charge L2.:eek:
It is marked as supporting A/C and DC also rated voltage 100 to 1000V, I wonder how that accomplished without applying the wrong voltage to the wrong pins or if that even matters?
I certainly would not be a huge fan of applying 400 V DC to the A/C pins of my CCS inlet.
I do have the Lectron 48A version of that NACS to J1772 adapter already so L2 won't be an issue for me, but I can foresee that happening especially a novice.
 
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Even on a working CCS-1 fast DC charger, my soon to be bought, 2017 BMW i3-REx only charges approaching 50 kW. It carries its own ICE powered, DC generator.

Bob Wilson
 
So you can buy it now but it may not be useful until after the warranty expires. Doesn’t sound like a wise move to me.

I will probably end up buying two such adaptors - one each to live in the trunk of my Bolt and SE. I am ok with using adaptors in the short term if it means the industry actually moves to a single standard. But if we still have CCS and NACS cars and chargers being built in 2030, I’d say we have a problem.


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GetOffYourGas said:
So you can buy it now but it may not be useful until after the warranty expires. Doesn’t sound like a wise move to me.

I will probably end up buying two such adaptors - one each to live in the trunk of my Bolt and SE. I am ok with using adaptors in the short term if it means the industry actually moves to a single standard. But if we still have CCS and NACS cars and chargers being built in 2030, I’d say we have a problem.


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There is a valid reason to purchase an adapter even if you can't use the Tesla supercharger network. I purchased an EVSE Tesla to J1772 adapter for my Kia so that I can use a Tesla level 2 charger if that is the only charger available.
 
Tim Mangini said:
There is a valid reason to purchase an adapter even if you can't use the Tesla supercharger network. I purchased an EVSE Tesla to J1772 adapter for my Kia so that I can use a Tesla level 2 charger if that is the only charger available.
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But that is a different adaptor. J1772 and CCs are related, but not the same thing. J1772 is AC only and CCS adds large pins for DC. NACS can do both in a speaker package, but the J1772 adaptor cannot.


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GetOffYourGas said:
But that is a different adaptor. J1772 and CCs are related, but not the same thing. J1772 is AC only and CCS adds large pins for DC. NACS can do both in a speaker package, but the J1772 adaptor cannot.


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He said level 2 not supercharger. I'm sure your are aware that there are a number of locations that offer a Tesla level 2 destination EVSEs.
 
marshall said:
He said level 2 not supercharger. I'm sure your are aware that there are a number of locations that offer a Tesla level 2 destination EVSEs.
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Yes. And he quoted my post in which I was specifically talking about DC charging and not level 2. Which is why I then replied to him pointing out the difference.


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insightman said:
I wonder what will happen? Follow the money.
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Long,long,term? Depends on the battery tech inside the cars. Assuming we go to 1000v (Likely I think) fast charging it's really a matter of what becomes the most ubiquitous on the cars. In general I think people would rather futz with a plug like tesla's over the CCS thing, so as both become widely available my guess is that ccs will slowly become deprecated, and you will have aftermarket kits to swap charging ports on older EV's. This all assumes a new tesla like plug or wireless charging, or a new electric micro-cell that's the size of a lantern battery that holds 100KWH doesn't hit the market that is vastly superior ( think cassette tape -> CD). J1772 is actually fine, and is actually rated to 100A or something, or you might see something on the built-in charger side that could make things interesting as well. If your built-in would handle say variable A/C or three-phase directly up to 50-100KW or something it could get really fun. A 4 wire 3-phase plug on the car maybe 60A(/phase) at 480v would get you up into the 86KW range, with lighter weight wire.
 
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