Ford makes deal with Tesla to share its Supercharger network

My local charging rates:
  • free - 6-7 kW AC, L2 chargers at local shops who want EV customers
  • $0.12/kWh - 7 kW AC, my home L2 charger
  • $0.35/kWh - local SuperCharger, up to 250 kW DC
  • $0.45/kWh - Electrify America, ChargePoint, and EVgo fast DC chargers
if you're going to get free electricity, spoof a J1772 charger and get AC power. Then have enough computers to draw 6-7 kW. Much easier than trying to spoof fast DC charging and converting to a form the bitcoin computers can use.

Better still, get a solar panels and inverters to drive the bitcoin computer. Then let it run.

Bob Wilson
 
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bwilson4web said:
My local charging rates:
  • free - 6-7 kW AC, L2 chargers at local shops who want EV customers
  • $0.12/kWh - 7 kW AC, my home L2 charger
  • $0.35/kWh - local SuperCharger, up to 250 kW DC
  • $0.45/kWh - Electrify America, ChargePoint, and EVgo fast DC chargers
if you're going to get free electricity, spoof a J1772 charger and get AC power. Then have enough computers to draw 6-7 kW. Much easier than trying to spoof fast DC charging and converting to a form the bitcoin computers can use.

Better still, get a solar panels and inverters to drive the bitcoin computer. Then let it run.

Bob Wilson
Click to expand...
My Local rates:
  • FREE: At home from my solar system. Charge rate: 7KW/L2 but sporadic depending on SOC of PV batteries
  • $0.07/KWH Off Peak from the grid when I can't get Solar 7KW/L2
    • $0.10/Winter $0.24/Summer Peak rates generally avoided, Winter is not really a big deal.
  • $0.45-0.60 at the various DCFC's within 10 miles of my abode. 50-350KW 2 EA, and 3 EVGO
  • FREE: At the any of the three Volta L2 stations within 10 miles of my house
  • Ridiculous: By the hour at a dozen or so L2 BLiNK stations floating around
I'm all in on the solar, I need to add about another 4-8KW of panels, and another 30KWH of battery, and I'll be able to pretty much keep my house going, and my cars charged without touching the grid. . . As long as I'm local. Once you have to travel it gets expensive for an EV. EA will cut 0.10 off the rate if you pay the monthly 'membership' fee, same for Evgo and Chargepoint. This is where things need to be a little more sane.

Since Tesla talks to it's cars OTA, ... It should know that VIN xxxx is geolocated at Lon,Lat, and thus should know if the vehicle was parked somewhere near where the charging is being attempted, and bark/complain/fail if something isn't kosher. It remains to be seen how this is all going to pan out. KIA/Hyundai are promising NACS sockets on the cars 2024/Q4. Will they have similar communcation capability? Only her hairdresser knows.
 
Seeing these home energy costs posted are they what the utility is selling the per kWh rate or combined with all the delivery charges and taxes?

Looking at my bill, the per kWh charge is $0.107/kWh but if I take my total monthly cost divided by kWh usage it jumps to $0.18/kWh. That almost doubles the cost of charging which at the end of the month isn't a huge amount unless alot of miles are driven in a month.
 
aamyotte said:
Seeing these home energy costs posted are they what the utility is selling the per kWh rate or combined with all the delivery charges and taxes?

Looking at my bill, the per kWh charge is $0.107/kWh but if I take my total monthly cost divided by kWh usage it jumps to $0.18/kWh. That almost doubles the cost of charging which at the end of the month isn't a huge amount unless alot of miles are driven in a month.
Click to expand...
I calculated mine with all the taxes, fees and delivery charges to be about: $0.125/kWh.
 
Wow!! My off peak rate is $0.28/kwh in the winter and on peak is $0.64/kwh. Summer is $0.34/kwh and $0.69/kwh. I knew there was a reason I put in solar. My delivery charges are about $0.05 of the above numbers
 
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Fastnf said:
Wow!! My off peak rate is $0.28/kwh in the winter and on peak is $0.64/kwh. Summer is $0.34/kwh and $0.69/kwh. I knew there was a reason I put in solar. My delivery charges are about $0.05 of the above numbers
Click to expand...
Wow!! And it is CA that is pushing hardest for EVs and to get rid of ICE cars.
 
+$20/mo meter charge. Most solar plans with sell-back require 'Demand' metering which is $30/mo. I don't sell back, I'm behind a transfer switch. So about $0.80/day for the privilege of having the meter.
 
Fastnf said:
Wow!! My off peak rate is $0.28/kwh in the winter and on peak is $0.64/kwh. Summer is $0.34/kwh and $0.69/kwh. I knew there was a reason I put in solar. My delivery charges are about $0.05 of the above numbers
Click to expand...
Hydroelectric power is the reason ours is so cheap.
 
Keith Smith said:
I've wondered about the feasability of 'spoofing' a Tesla vin with an in-line device of some sort. Make someone else pay for your charge. Sort of a non-issue currently as a non-Tesla vehicle at a supercharger would have attracted a bit of attention, but now with whatever pulling up to the 'pump' the possibility goes up dramatically, since their may not be a conversation between the vehicle and the charger that correlates to an app on a phone for the user than owns the vehicle with the connected vin. This is what I was talking about above, Tesla needs to figure out how to handle charging when it can no longer make assumptions about the connected vehicle based on the fact that it's a Tesla and already connected to their network.

This is probably the core reason they haven't opened anything up yet. I'm guessing things will open up in stages maybe geographically but who knows.
Click to expand...

I had thought that NACS would essentially use ISO15118 for plug-and-charge. So the adapter wouldn't need to have any active circuitry, and can largely be a passive device. I recall that Ford wanted customers to use Ford Pass app, and not require that people set up the Tesla app - that was described as a deal-breaker if the Tesla app were required.

Now Tesla might still want to be able to identify the adapter to ensure that people aren't using cheap knock-offs - that's almost a different thing, that could almost be handled with something like a NFC token built into the adapter.
 
Tesla's responsibility should end at the NACS plug or maybe the business end of the magic dock dongle.
It's easy enough to detect something going wrong with temperature sensors. Trying to apply DRM to
a passive adapter is simply madness, and would undoubtedly set off extensive reverse-engineering
efforts that would waste a lot of time and if anything, increase risk to the public.

_H*
 
hobbit said:
Tesla's responsibility should end at the NACS plug or maybe the business end of the magic dock dongle.
It's easy enough to detect something going wrong with temperature sensors. Trying to apply DRM to
a passive adapter is simply madness, and would undoubtedly set off extensive reverse-engineering
efforts that would waste a lot of time and if anything, increase risk to the public.

_H*
Click to expand...

The problem is that a dodgy adapter could damage the connectors on the Tesla cable or the car charging port. If that happens, then who has the liability?

I don't know if the adapter itself has a temperature sensor, or whether there is even a way for it to report status back to the supercharger. You would probably have to depend on the temperature sensor on the supercharger handle, and hope that it could pick up temperature anomalies in the adapter itself.
 
The last domino falls. However, no sign of any deal with Tesla. Stellantis to acquire NACS (J3400), adaptors in 2025; connectors/ports in 2026.
  • Battery-electric vehicles (BEVs) from Stellantis brands in North America will adopt the proposed SAE J3400 connector, starting with select models in 2025
  • During the transition period, Stellantis will also make adapters available for vehicles fitted with the Combined Charging System (CCS) port, enabling drivers to access a growing private and public J3400 infrastructure to meet J3400/1 requirements still being developed this year

"This future will be amplified by IONNA, our public charging joint venture with six other OEMs that will deliver industry-leading high-powered charging for all battery-electric vehicles regardless of brand.”
 
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Today, I was catching a quick charge at the Shelbyville SuperChargers where a technician was installing the 'compatibility mode' in the chargers. This enables Fords with adapters to charge at these units. It was taking him less than 5 minutes to take off the shells, do the mod, and button them back up.

I asked about my BMW i3-REx and he said it would require a Magic Dock cable.

Bob Wilson
 
Given the grim future for CCS-1 chargers and their companies, I'll get the NACS adapter when available.

Bob Wilson
 
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