Dead Kona EV!

[Wyldstyle]

In the last episode of this telenovela, we left our hero frantically trying to get a human being at the Hyundai dealer on the phone to see if Parts had the battery. No point taking the car in otherwise.

Wow! They did have it, and could replace it right away. (organ music)

After several hours with the car, Pradep, the tech, explained that he had to charge the battery overnight and put instruments on it to document its demise for HMA. They need the specific printouts before authorizing replacement under warranty. (sad organ music)

So I left it for a couple of days and picked it up today with a new (flooded) battery. Pradep had left the instrumentation on the car, but nothing unusual happened.

I asked what I should do when in five or six weeks I find the battery dead again. He said don't touch it, just call him. No BM2, no checking error codes - let him have the first shot at diagnosing it. For the first time, I feel like there's a competent tech and if there's a way to find the problem, he's my best shot. (fade up inspirational organ music; cut to commercial)

FWIW Pradep said he has seen cars with a dead 12v battery traced to a module under the dash that's supposed to shut all the systems down three minutes after you turn it off and leave. Sometimes the module will intermittently leave it on and kill the battery. Replacing it always fixes that problem.

Huzzah! I'm having a very similar problem (12v battery has died four times in the last 3 months). The dealer serviced it in July and said the 12v battery was healthy but they applied an ECU upgrade (901.OS EV Battery Logic Improvement (BMS) - photo attached ) . But the 12v died again. I don't think my dealership has sufficient experience to know what to do. I will pass your post info on to them, but if necessary, could they call your dealer in SF area and talk with Pradep?

 

[electriceddy]

dead 12v battery traced to a module under the dash

Likely a new BCM (body control module) is in your future:

Never mind the spelling issue, commonplace with Korean manuals, It is located under the dash, near the air filter. Here is the diagram (the lower of the 2 modules):

I do hope it was just a case of the accessory battery being at fault, but if the module does indeed require replacement, it is a relatively minor job and should not leave you without a vehicle for too long.
EDIT: images see post #267

 

[Toolworker]

I don't think my dealership has sufficient experience to know what to do. I will pass your post info on to them, but if necessary, could they call your dealer in SF area and talk with Pradep?

Not wanting to be unhelpful, but your dealership ought to know what module Pradep was referring to, and if not, it sounds like @electriceddy does. LMK if you still need help after another talk with the dealer.

Likely a new BCM (body control module) is in your future:

Is there any way to tell if it's the BCM, short of replacing it? If the car is under warranty, HMA requires more evidence than a criminal jury; if not, it's an expense on spec.

And your images require a login to view.

[/QUOTE]

 

[insightman]

Likely a new BCM (body control module) is in your future:

Never mind the spelling issue, commonplace with Korean manuals, It is located under the dash, near the air filter. Here is the diagram (the lower of the 2 modules):

I do hope it was just a case of the accessory battery being at fault, but if the module does indeed require replacement, it is a relatively minor job and should not leave you without a vehicle for too long.

I see only the broken-image icon for the two images.

 

[R P]

I see only the broken-image icon for the two images.

When I see these I just right click and copy the image in a new tab, and then it shows up.

 

[Toolworker]

When I see these I just right click and copy the image in a new tab, and then it shows up.

And I get this:

 

[electriceddy]

My bad... computer went into stupid mode (or maybe it's me)
...does this work?

I also wonder if removing IGPM Memory 1 fuse (or installing an in-line switch) to the input pin #1 of the BCM would be a temporary fix to excessive vampire drain during an event of a defective module. This might be a way to tell a defective module without replacement as the accessory battery voltage should pull up slightly or use a current meter in line to confirm.

 

[Wildeyed]

My car died today in my driveway. I backed it out to make room for some yard work. It behaved a bit oddly as I backed it up 20 ft, bing-bonged a couple times and asked me to shift from reverse to park for no reason, but I didn't think much of it and moved it as planned. When I tried to restart the car later it was mostly dead. I got some warning chimes, no dash display and could hear the main "on" switch clicking and failing repeatedly before the car just died completely. I was about to call for a tow but remembered I had bought a lithium jumper pack several months ago. I thought it might be worth a try before going through the hassle of a tow etc. It worked immediately. I now have the car "on" just sitting in the driveway, hoping that it is recharging the 12 volt battery. Will that work?

In retrospect, last night, glancing outside in the dark, I noticed the charge port was lit up "white" but that it didn't go off or switch over to green. It stayed like that for at least an hour (and possibly longer) before I went to bed. I know that behaviour is unusual. Did it get "hung-up" during a charging cycle? Is that a thing? Could that have caused the 12 volt to run down and if so, how would one protect against such hang-ups in future? Any advice or hearing about direct experience with this issue is appreciated

 

[KiwiME]

From RUN mode select Utility mode. That will ensure that it holds the charge level for the duration.

Is the port area and charger plug clean, regarding electrical connections?

 

[Wildeyed]

From RUN mode select Utility mode. That will ensure that it holds the charge level for the duration.

Is the port area and charger plug clean, regarding electrical connections?

I believe everything is clean and tight. I've never had any trouble with the either end of the connector. In fact, the vehicle charged successfully last night before the hang-up incident and the cable remained plugged in and undisturbed all night.

FYI - I let the car run in the driveway for about 45 minutes. It started and drove and restarted normally when I moved it back and plugged it back in.

I didn't even think about using the utility mode. Is that better for 12 volt charging than just letting the car idle as I did?

 

[electriceddy]

I didn't even think about using the utility mode. Is that better for 12 volt charging than just letting the car idle as I did?

This might help explain why

 

[KiwiME]

RUN mode is a bit sporadic at offering a charge-level voltage to the 12V battery in my experience, while Utility mode guarantees it.

 

[Wildeyed]

RUN mode is a bit sporadic at offering a charge-level voltage to the 12V battery in my experience, while Utility mode guarantees it.

Good to know, thanks.

 

[electric_city]

I've been running with a LiFePO4 12v 40AH for the last 3 years without issues. My factory 12v did't last long (a little over 1 year). It was replaced under warranty, but I benched it and ended up putting it the ZOE which also died about 3 years in. Charge to the battery is generally applied while car is running in Drive mode, Utility mode, any time the main battery is charging and during any battery maintenance the car may be doing based on your model and software versions.

The best thing about the LiFePO4 for me is that
1) Charging profiles are compatible with the Lead Acid and charging system
2) A full discharge (should it happen) doesn't stress the battery like Lead Acid
3) Cycle life even at 100% DOD is many thousands
4) Prices are approaching parity with lead acid
5) More of the current generated for charging the 12v is actually stored in the 12v battery as opposed to lead acid (lower losses)
6) The battery is less than half the weight
7) Temps in the engine bay do not get warm enough to affect performance of the battery

I'm sure many people would be against it or perhaps mildly dubious about using one, however if mine was to die I'd buy another. When the ZOE's lead acid battery dies, it'll be getting a LiFePO4 repalcement for sure!

I've purposely flattened mine as a test and the BMS turns it off, it also has a manual switch, and with mine, once the battery lies flat for about 10 minutes, if I switch the battery off and then on, there's enough (I presume surface charge/voltage ) to restart the car, however I do carry a lithium jumper just in case also (It's never been used)

 

[KiwiME]

Tesla moved to a small 16V LiFePO4 a couple of years ago as you're no-doubt aware, but the intent appears to be better system management, not increased capacity.

Their aux batteries internal BMS can communicate over LIN with the car to request an immediate charge rather than having to wait for a timed event as the Kona does. Apparently when the driving cameras are in 'parking' mode it's 'on' all the time. Ironically the Kona's battery sensor (on negative terminal) should be able to do this as well provided the car was 'listening' and Hyundai had anticipated the usefulness.

I've never had an issue with my Kona's OEM Rocket battery and see no reason to stir anything up past the replacement issue I've documented elsewhere. But what mostly puts me off the Ohmic brand of these aftermarket LFEs is Ingineerix's views on YouTube, noting that some comments are specific to its use in a Tesla.

 

[Wildeyed]

My Blue link has resumed sending me notifications several times a day after jumping the battery. I assume that means it's back to topping up the 12 volt automatically.

I now realize that the car had actually stopped sending its notifications for a while prior to it dying. I guess that was a sign that something was amiss?

 

[Wildeyed]

Nope. Spoke too soon.

The car was virtually dead again this morning. It had enough oomph left to allow me to open the hatch normally but after that it couldn't open the door locks. Eventually I got one door open. All of this despite an hour of "on" time yesterday after boosting, a normally scheduled charge to 80% in the evening and 4 BMS 12 volt recharging events overnight and this morning.

My lithium jumper worked immediately to restart the car. It is now sitting in Utility Mode as per advice of this group. I'm going to leave it that way for a few hours.

This is a year-old OEM battery. Any ideas as to why I'm suddenly dealing with this? I've changed nothing in my car or my routine.

 

[KiwiME]

Based on your description it sounds like it may have a defect. Even an abused battery can do more than that.

 

[Wildeyed]

Based on your description it sounds like it may have a defect. Even an abused battery can do more than that.

I ran utility mode for 3 hours today. I don't know if that's sufficient time to top off the 12 volt. And now I'm wondering if it will hold the charge even if it is topped up. What would cause a "defect" in a year-old battery?

* Oh, and it's already run 2 BMS cycles at 5:15 and 5:44. Those occurred less than 3 hours after the stint in utility mode.

 

[electriceddy]

I ran utility mode for 3 hours today. I don't know if that's sufficient time to top off the 12 volt. And now I'm wondering if it will hold the charge even if it is topped up. What would cause a "defect" in a year-old battery?

* Oh, and it's already run 2 BMS cycles at 5:15 and 5:44. Those occurred less than 3 hours after the stint in utility mode.

If Hyundai installed the replacement battery, than I expect it should be covered by dealership warranty. If the issue is the LVDC system, then that also should be covered by Hyundai original warranty.