Clunking Vibration type sound

  • Thread starter Thread starter blakehaas
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blakehaas said:
Update. Hyundai National called. They want to buy the car back. :(
The only hope I have is if I can convince the dealership to try and talk to the engineer about the possibility of going for the motor as a fix vs another gearbox so this car can be fixed quickly. Otherwise the car wont be fixed till FEB or later. Im estimating around january i'll have to make the decision to keep trying to fix the car or let hyundai buy it back (they said offer, so im assuming they will try to depreciate the cost from when I bought it...).
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Again I am sorry for the grief your experiencing. Its good Hyundai is taking the initiative for a resolution. I guess if the offer was half decent I would probably move onto another BEV as there is no guarantee that they would actually permanently fix the problem as we don't know if the new motor revision actually addresses anything relevant to your concern. I hope this works out in your favor.
 
blakehaas said:
Update. Hyundai National called. They want to buy the car back. :(
The only hope I have is if I can convince the dealership to try and talk to the engineer about the possibility of going for the motor as a fix vs another gearbox so this car can be fixed quickly. Otherwise the car wont be fixed till FEB or later. Im estimating around january i'll have to make the decision to keep trying to fix the car or let hyundai buy it back (they said offer, so im assuming they will try to depreciate the cost from when I bought it...).
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Sounds like your "get out of jail free card". If there are Federal Tax credits involved and if you traded in your old car don't forget to include that in the reimbursement. Seems pretty decent on Hyundai's part, hope it works well for you.
 
blakehaas said:
Update. Hyundai National called. They want to buy the car back. :(
The only hope I have is if I can convince the dealership to try and talk to the engineer about the possibility of going for the motor as a fix vs another gearbox so this car can be fixed quickly. Otherwise the car wont be fixed till FEB or later. Im estimating around january i'll have to make the decision to keep trying to fix the car or let hyundai buy it back (they said offer, so im assuming they will try to depreciate the cost from when I bought it...).
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New "twist" (pardon the pun) on this clicking noise :
https://www.speakev.com/threads/kona-electric-drive-train-funny-noise.137774/page-4#post-2749665
A lot of labor but it apparently solved the problem - engineering error?
I have suspected the shaft was asymmetric for some time reading all the threads.
I wonder if the techs rotated the shaft 180 degrees ( and checked the grease) when they changed your gearbox?
Probably worth a shot before the buy back;)
 
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I wish I could suggest things and they would try it out but my dealership will not do a single thing unless it was explicitly instructed by the engineer or Hyundai corporate for the repair. I will show them the post in hopes that they ask questions but I'm not holding my breath.
 
blakehaas said:
I wish I could suggest things and they would try it out but my dealership will not do a single thing unless it was explicitly instructed by the engineer or Hyundai corporate for the repair. I will show them the post in hopes that they ask questions but I'm not holding my breath.
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I'd take the buy back only of it's not going to cost you cent. Rebates tax's etc. Why would you take less and end up with no car. Don't worry Hyundai will come out ok. Or you can ask for a brand new 2020 of the exact same model. I feel the cars are great and you got a lemon so to speak.
 
If it's a splined shaft with machining asymmetries, it seems like everyone now
may be unwitting players in a widespread "assembly alignment roulette"
depending on what happened by chance at the factory??

_H*
 
hobbit said:
If it's a splined shaft with machining asymmetries, it seems like everyone now
may be unwitting players in a widespread "assembly alignment roulette"
depending on what happened by chance at the factory??
Click to expand...

I have seen teardown/disassembly videos of the Bolt (both for the traction motor and also battery removal), but I have seen nothing similar for the Kona. Unfortunately there just aren't enough Kona out there for people to go to the trouble.

I have this urge to sign up for hyundaitechinfo and spend a few hours noodling around.
 
For what it's worth, my Niro EV was making this exact same sound (see my links earlier in the thread). I had to wait 6 weeks for a new motor but the new revision (711 on Niro, 701 on Kona) fixed the issue. The date sticker on the new motor indicated it was built first week of November and arrived here 2 weeks later. Luckily in my case, they initially thought it was the gearbox but after additional diagnostics decided to start with the motor replacement instead.

With the new motor, the only sounds I hear from the drivetrain are the occasional hissing, ringing, or cricket-like chirping at certain speeds. Most noticeable in the 30-50mph range, then drowned out by wind and tire noise. Never heard those type of sounds when I drove the Tesla M3 or Chevy Bolt. I can hear them in your Kona recordings so I guess these electrical noises are normal for KIA/Hyundai motor and inverter design.
 
KiwiME said:
If you do, focus on the bearing arrangement around the motor pinion gear.
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Didn't get to it today. I am trying to make a mental list of what i want to look for before I start. Battery warmers are another one on my list. Maybe I should start a thread with the wish list for what people want to see.

I saw some charging curves for the Bolt. If the temperature is low enough, it won't charge at all, but that's at 20 below. The Bolt does have a battery warmer, so it will eventually charge. 20 below is not unheard of in New England, so I am wondering how things will work out for people up there this winter.
 
It's been looked for the Kona by myself and a German owner, at minimum ... both of us have battery heater equipped Konas. When starting DC charging under 15°C the battery heater and coolant pump switch on. The charge rate is attenuated until the battery reaches that temp when both heater and pump switch off and it will then charge at the full rate allowable per the current SoC. I could only get down to about 10°C in winter but the German owner tested under 5. Here's their graph which encompases everything I observed. I would be surprised if the docs provide any better info.
KONA_laadimine_16_12_2018_temp_power_eng.webp
 
Update. The car will have the 2nd gearbox replacement done this week. Thursday or Friday. After that, if it still has problems its their last chance to replace motor. If the engineer suggests another gearbox or some other change besides the revised motor. Hyundai will be buying the car back.
 
blakehaas said:
Update. The car will have the 2nd gearbox replacement done this week. Thursday or Friday. After that, if it still has problems its their last chance to replace motor. If the engineer suggests another gearbox or some other change besides the revised motor. Hyundai will be buying the car back.
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Do you think they will give you full price and all you have spent they should.
 
blakehaas said:
Update. The car will have the 2nd gearbox replacement done this week. Thursday or Friday. After that, if it still has problems its their last chance to replace motor. If the engineer suggests another gearbox or some other change besides the revised motor. Hyundai will be buying the car back.
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Fingers crossed the shaft is in an acceptable position when installing it onto the motor
 
Update. The dealership just called. They installed a 2nd gearbox and it still is making the sound. They seemed to think it was because of their team not being familiar with electric cars and possibly not installing it right. I assured them that even dealerships with multiple variants of electric cars are having the exact same outcome when trying to fix this issue. They are contacting hyundai on how to proceed. I cant get a hold of the person assigned to my case from hyundai corporate to see if we can expedite a motor or any parts so they arrive in january and not later. This is a bad time of year to get things done. Will update when i hear what they wanna do.
 
wizziwig said:
For what it's worth, my Niro EV was making this exact same sound (see my links earlier in the thread). I had to wait 6 weeks for a new motor but the new revision (711 on Niro, 701 on Kona) fixed the issue. The date sticker on the new motor indicated it was built first week of November and arrived here 2 weeks later. Luckily in my case, they initially thought it was the gearbox but after additional diagnostics decided to start with the motor replacement instead.

With the new motor, the only sounds I hear from the drivetrain are the occasional hissing, ringing, or cricket-like chirping at certain speeds. Most noticeable in the 30-50mph range, then drowned out by wind and tire noise. Never heard those type of sounds when I drove the Tesla M3 or Chevy Bolt. I can hear them in your Kona recordings so I guess these electrical noises are normal for KIA/Hyundai motor and inverter design.
Click to expand...

For whatever the information is worth I picked up my 2020 Kona today with Oct 17 build date and it has the 700 motor, so either they have not changed the assembly line motor to the new revision until November or they are just sending out the revision perhaps for the moment only as replacements. I dunno probably just speculation, just thought my data point might be of some use to someone.
 
blakehaas said:
Update. The dealership just called. They installed a 2nd gearbox and it still is making the sound. They seemed to think it was because of their team not being familiar with electric cars and possibly not installing it right. I assured them that even dealerships with multiple variants of electric cars are having the exact same outcome when trying to fix this issue. They are contacting hyundai on how to proceed. I cant get a hold of the person assigned to my case from hyundai corporate to see if we can expedite a motor or any parts so they arrive in january and not later. This is a bad time of year to get things done. Will update when i hear what they wanna do.
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This is getting beyond ridiculous and could turn into some pretty bad PR unless Hyundai soon comes out with an analytic cause and definitive resolution.:(
 
It's already causing prospective buyers to pause based on what I'm seeing on FB. I can see how it will take time to resolve to the point of a documented TSB but am surprised that Hyundai messed up at all, considering their prior experience with the Ioniq and the availability for inspection of other successful drivetrain designs such as the Leaf, nevermind that this is boilerplate engineering.
From photos on the 'net the Leaf, Porsche and Kona/e-Niro motors uses a splined connection to the reduction gearbox while the Tesla and Bolt install or integrate the first stage pinion directly onto the motor shaft. But that design choice in itself does not answer the question.
The most likely items in these gearboxes that could make a subtle noise is endplay in any of the three shafts, and normally they are shimmed fairly tight. But, there seems to be some connection to the motor spline, such that the noise is altered by changing the index position or replacing the motor. I'm wondering if 'cogging', rotational bumpiness due to the finite spacing of the magnets in the rotor and poles in the stator, may be interacting with end play in the gearbox.
Also a puzzle is how there are reports of dirty oil, indicating some sort of failure or misalignment causing a high rate of wear in some components.
It is relatable that the current Miata/MX-5 has had a small number of catastrophic manual gearbox failures (perhaps ~100) and Mazda are on their fifth revision of the internals with failures slowing but still appearing now and then. That started around 3 years ago, yet didn't stop that car from recently winning a reliability award.
 
Update:
Dealership called and told me they got a hold of the engineer and he is going to fly in from Chicago and try to diagnose the car. This will happen JAN 14th. I will let him try to diagnose the issue. If it seems he isn't sure as to what the problem is; I'm just going to have them buy back the car. This process has been quite stressful. Will update once engineer arrives.
 
Final Update:
Hyundai has bought the car back. Unfortunately they weren't able to fix it.
This is my new ride now:
cbgtgfcu89a41.jpg
 
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