Clunking Vibration type sound

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The Model 3 gearbox has a pump-based oil system needed to support the more sophisticated lubrication management and use of a heat exchanger, therefore can support a filter. It appears that the motor is only cooled by oil, but lubricated by that as well.
The Hyundai motor is cooled exclusively by the coolant loop and the bearings are grease lubricated. The gearbox is oil splash-lubricated and (expectedly) has a magnet to catch wear debris, the most common arrangement for simple gearboxes.
They are just two different design philosophies. The more pertinent point regarding this thread is the bearing arrangement used by Hyundai, which happens to be similar to that used by the Nissan Leaf.
 
I doubt anyone will get Monro's interest in any EV conversions like the Kona or Niro. Someone needs to pay for the analysis and those who can afford it are more interested in ground-up, purpose built EVs. Link to the referenced motor comparison article.

KiwiME said:
The be fair however, I believe Tesla had problems in this area with their early Roadster design and learned the hard way.
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The original gearbox on those older Tesla's (R and S) was made by Borg Werner. It was a piece of garbage that often needed to be replaced multiple times. They eventually moved to in-house designs on their current drive units.

KiwiME said:
The more pertinent point regarding this thread is the bearing arrangement used by Hyundai, which happens to be similar to that used by the Nissan Leaf.
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Leaf is a little different. The motor has a support mount for an extension used to get the CV joint axles to a similar length. On the Kona/Niro the uneven length axles are connected directly to the gearbox. Maybe that introduces some extra stress on the system.

Leaf_Drive_Unit.webp

In any case, the current more powerful 2nd gen Leaf drivetrain is not exactly immune to problems:

 
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wizziwig said:
I doubt anyone will get Monro's interest in any EV conversions like the Kona or Niro. He seems only interested in teardowns of ground-up, purpose built EVs and a couple hybrids. Link to the referenced motor comparison article.



The original gearbox on those older Tesla's (R and S) was made by Borg Werner. It was a piece of garbage that often needed to be replaced multiple times. They eventually moved to in-house designs on their current drive units.



Leaf is a little different. The motor has a support mount for an extension used to get the CV joint axles to a similar length. On the Kona/Niro the uneven length axles are connected directly to the gearbox. Maybe that introduces some extra stress on the system.

View attachment 9244

In any case, the current more powerful 2nd gen Leaf drivetrain is not exactly immune to problems:

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The tapping noise starting at 7:25 of this video make the Kona similar version sound like a sentimental ballad.:D
 
In answer to earlier question... just shy of 6000 mi at this point.

The Kona platform may not be 100% purpose-built to be an EV, but this is purely a
drivetrain problem and somewhat decoupled from that.

Crickets from Leandesign so far, what a surprise.

_H*
 
hobbit said:
In answer to earlier question... just shy of 6000 mi at this point.

The Kona platform may not be 100% purpose-built to be an EV, but this is purely a
drivetrain problem and somewhat decoupled from that.

Crickets from Leandesign so far, what a surprise.

_H*
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The drivetrain design needs to fit and power the car so it's not exactly decoupled from the car it goes into. In this particular case, the same drivetrain has to fit into at least 3 different vehicles (Kona, Niro, eSoul - some of which also accommodate even more power-trains - ICE, hybrid, plug-in hybrid, EV). I think this forced them into a particular gearbox and motor design they could adapt to fit and attach to the existing parts in each vehicle. It's not an ideal way to engineer things and a compromise compared to purpose built, ground-up designs made for a specific car.
 
wizziwig said:
The drivetrain design needs to fit and power the car so it's not exactly decoupled from the car it goes into. In this particular case, the same drivetrain has to fit into at least 3 different vehicles (Kona, Niro, eSoul - some of which also accommodate even more power-trains - ICE, hybrid, plug-in hybrid, EV). I think this forced them into a particular gearbox and motor design they could adapt to fit and attach to the existing parts in each vehicle. It's not an ideal way to engineer things and a compromise compared to purpose built, ground-up designs made for a specific car.
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Good point, hopefully that will be addressed with the E-GMP platform under Hyundai's Ionic brand.
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/08/2020-810-ioniq.html
 
They've been struggling to build a reliable EV drivetrain for years. It didn't much matter for low volume, low range, low power, compliance cars but they will need to up their game as competition increases. Maybe they should just purchase these parts from someone else. If Lucid can deliver everything they are promising, it will make even Tesla's drivetrains look archaic and they are offering to sell them to anyone.

For anyone who didn't catch their long launch presentation, you should check it out. For a quick look inside the drivetrain, you can just look at the slides on their page or on this one. They somehow managed to cram inverter, motor, and gearbox into less space/weight while offering more power than anyone else. Unfortunately, they are following Tesla's history of beginning sales with luxury models before designing anything for the mass market.
 
wizziwig said:
They've been struggling to build a reliable EV drivetrain for years. It didn't much matter for low volume, low range, low power, compliance cars but they will need to up their game as competition increases. Maybe they should just purchase these parts from someone else. If Lucid can deliver everything they are promising, it will make even Tesla's drivetrains look archaic and they are offering to sell them to anyone.

For anyone who didn't catch their long launch presentation, you should check it out. For a quick look inside the drivetrain, you can just look at the slides on their page or on this one. They somehow managed to cram inverter, motor, and gearbox into less space/weight while offering more power than anyone else. Unfortunately, they are following Tesla's history of beginning sales with luxury models before designing anything for the mass market.
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The basic pieces aren't bad on paper - I think KiwiME is right on the money regarding the over-constrained bearings. If they re-design just that part of it (easier said than done), the core issue goes away. Assuming of course that they don't inadvertently introduce a new problem, and for that they need to test the crap out of it. ICE cars have had their design fails as well, of course, but the manufacturers have generally had enough time to work through the major kinks.

For existing cars out there, they have a conundrum however - it seems like they hope to keep everyone happy by swapping parts until the problems appear to go away.

Lucid is starting out like Tesla - making rich people's playthings. In the early days, Tesla never interested me for that reason. Most people just need a daily driver - the 0-180 time isn't relevant in that most people never even drive half that speed. And for that matter, Lucid sounds good on paper, but doesn't yet have a track record of delivering reliable vehicles.
 
Just got my car back from local Hyundai service. They completed the following:

C/S: SOR IN 665361 GASKET-SID / GASKET / GREASE RUMBLE NOISE FROM ELECTRIC MOTOR AND REDUCTION GEAR TO BE CORRECTED BY PERFORMING PROCEDURE OUTLINED IN TSB

Post fix: Clicking sound is MUCH louder at lower speeds, 0-40Km/h than before. The high speed, 60 Km/h + the noise level is much quieter than before the fix but not as quiet as our Nissan Leaf is at the same speed.

Next steps: My Hyundai service manager agrees the "Fix" did not work as intended and is requesting a motor replacement from Hyundai Canada. I personally am glad this band-aid fix Hyundai is trying to apply did not resolve the issue. Hyundai insists this TSB be applied before authorizing a full motor replacement, so here we are back at square one.

My service manager is aware of the recent drive battery recall - RO175 - but has been provided no information from Hyundai about a resolution.

Stay tuned.
 
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VanGoghsEar said:
Just got my car back from local Hyundai service. They completed the following:

C/S: SOR IN 665361 GASKET-SID / GASKET / GREASE RUMBLE NOISE FROM ELECTRIC MOTOR AND REDUCTION GEAR TO BE CORRECTED BY PERFORMING PROCEDURE OUTLINED IN TSB

Post fix: Clicking sound is MUCH louder at lower speeds, 0-40Km/h than before. The high speed, 60 Km/h + the noise level is much quieter than before the fix but not as quiet as our Nissan Leaf is at the same speed.

Next steps: My Hyundai service manager agrees the "Fix" did not work as intended and is requesting a motor replacement from Hyundai Canada. I personally am glad this band-aid fix Hyundai is trying to apply did not resolve the issue. Hyundai insists this TSB be applied before authorizing a full motor replacement, so here we are back at square one.

My service manager is aware of the recent drive battery recall - RO175 - but has been provided no information from Hyundai about a resolution.

Stay tuned.
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Update: Recall RO175 for Battery was done yesterday and Hyundai Canada authorized the motor replacement. The replacement motor is on back order but should be available before the end of 2020.
 
VanGoghsEar said:
Update: Recall RO175 for Battery was done yesterday and Hyundai Canada authorized the motor replacement. The replacement motor is on back order but should be available before the end of 2020.
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Motor and reduction gear was finally replaced on Friday. All annoying sounds and noises are gone. The service manager noted that the new components are much "meaty-er" than the originals. I am waiting for the work order report and will update with details once I have them.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
I'm no subject matter expert on what could be the root cause of the clicking noises folks are hearing.

This 6.5 year old video makes mention of "ceramic bearings to cut down on electrical arcing":



I know that early build Tesla Model Ss had issues with clicking noises that IIRC were traced to electrical arcing cooking the bearings.

I wonder if the Kona situation is related to this phenomena.
 
navguy12 said:
I know that early build Tesla Model Ss had issues with clicking noises that IIRC were traced to electrical arcing cooking the bearings.

I wonder if the Kona situation is related to this phenomena.
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It has been discussed, and other theories are out there as well. But nobody really knows for sure.
 
My 2019 Limited is making the dreaded noise. Going in to the dealer Thursday. I'd been hearing it for a while and tried to convince myself it was not a problem, until I stumbled across these accounts from other folks. I also just got the recall letter in the mail for the braking issue, so I'm having that done too. At least they have the waiting room open now. I was there in December for the earlier recall, and they had to put me in a loaner car, which is not too great for computer based work.
 
EricP said:
My 2019 Limited is making the dreaded noise. Going in to the dealer Thursday. I'd been hearing it for a while and tried to convince myself it was not a problem, until I stumbled across these accounts from other folks. I also just got the recall letter in the mail for the braking issue, so I'm having that done too. At least they have the waiting room open now. I was there in December for the earlier recall, and they had to put me in a loaner car, which is not too great for computer based work.
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Be sure to get both the reduction drive and motor replaced. I had mine done earlier last year and they first replaced just the reduction drive. It started making that noise again just a few 100 kms later, and they then ordered the new motor (701). That fixed it, and so far, almost 10K kms later, all still good.
 
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