Best Level 2 Charger

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I'm a new Clarity owner, and interested in Level 2 with a special twist.

I will be parking under a 4-post car lift in the garage. The lift is powered by a dedicated 220V circuit, so it would be very convenient to tap into that circuit with an L2 charger. The slight twist is that this is a 30 amp (AWG 10) circuit. This [should] allow me to obtain a slightly reduced Level2 (80% of 30 amps = 24 amps), only increasing the charge time from 2.5 hours to 3.5 (plenty fine with me).

Here is the dilemma however... There are a plethora of "40 amp" EVSE devices which would yield the full 32A charging rate. That would promptly trip my breaker in an attempt to deliver the vehicle max of 32A. I may have seen a couple of 24 amp chargers, but they are uncommon and unknown quality / unknown UL approval.

An ideal solution would be to install a 40A unit, but change a vehicle setting so charging never exceeds 24 amps. Is there a setting within the vehicle that could do this? It seems like it would be trivial to make an EVSE with a switch setting or similar, optionally commanding the vehicle to use a lower rate, and facilitating a line input that has less ampacity like this...

Any suggestions?
 
MrFixit said:
I'm a new Clarity owner, and interested in Level 2 with a special twist.

I will be parking under a 4-post car lift in the garage. The lift is powered by a dedicated 220V circuit, so it would be very convenient to tap into that circuit with an L2 charger. The slight twist is that this is a 30 amp (AWG 10) circuit. This [should] allow me to obtain a slightly reduced Level2 (80% of 30 amps = 24 amps), only increasing the charge time from 2.5 hours to 3.5 (plenty fine with me).

Here is the dilemma however... There are a plethora of "40 amp" EVSE devices which would yield the full 32A charging rate. That would promptly trip my breaker in an attempt to deliver the vehicle max of 32A. I may have seen a couple of 24 amp chargers, but they are uncommon and unknown quality / unknown UL approval.

An ideal solution would be to install a 40A unit, but change a vehicle setting so charging never exceeds 24 amps. Is there a setting within the vehicle that could do this? It seems like it would be trivial to make an EVSE with a switch setting or similar, optionally commanding the vehicle to use a lower rate, and facilitating a line input that has less ampacity like this...

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
ClipperCreek LCS-30 is what you're looking for and it's UL listed.
https://store.clippercreek.com/index.php?route=product/search&search=Lcs-30
 
ryd994 said:
For these L2 chargers with 120v adapter, don't use the adapter unless your wall receptacle is decent.
These chargers stupidly sending 16A signal all the time. Not a problem for Leaf, which limits to 12A for 120v no matter what. Big problem for Clarity, which will trust the EVSE and draw 15A+.

Your wall receptacle is rated for 15A, so meh fine? Wrong. Your wall receptacle is rated for 15A short use but only 12A continuous (>3hrs). This is call the 80% rule for continuous use.

Not saying it will burn your house for sure, but YMMV. I have the duosida charger for L1, always feel nervous for the 140 degree hot plug.

Although, after the hv range fix software update, my Clarity seems to limit the current to ~13. Still over rated, but I'm comfortable with this 10 percent overclocking.

For L2 use, totally fine. The L2 plug is 6-20, which is 20A rated. Apply the 80% rule, you have exactly 16A ampacity.

If anyone have more questions on this charger, or anything lookes similar, AMA.

Update with link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07FGD5335/ The first review from Dan, that's me.
Click to expand...
To the contrary, every 15A circuit with accessible plugs has a 20A breaker just for that reason, unless the electrician was cheap and shoddy.
 
AaD said:
Beat me to it, we have a clipper creek 32 amp unit and they are all over the place as free public chargers outdoors up in Maine, would not hesitate to try their 24 amp EVSE. Also, the siemans EVSE can be set to operate at a lower amperage, so there are options among well known brands.
Click to expand...

Excellent !
It was not at all obvious that the Siemens had a selection of current settings. That would seem to be a better choice because [with an upgrade to a 40A main input] it could be used for 'full performance' charging in the future. Thanks for pointing this out.

I see from the instruction manual that there are 5 selections of current (6, 7.5, 15, 22.5, and 30 Amps).

What confuses me however, is the caveat within the amperage adjustment section of the installation. It states:

"Circuit must be sized for the max ampere requirement. Do not de-rate
breakers or conductors based on amperage adjustment"

The implication is that you cannot do what I want [connect it to a 30A circuit] even if I select one of the three lower settings. I do not understand this, unless they are worried about a condition where the vehicle fails to properly reduce the current when requested by the EVSE? Although it seem sensible that it should work fine for my situation, I hesitate to directly violate the manufacturers instructions. Does anyone have an explanation for this caveat in the installation guide?
 
MrFixit said:
I'm a new Clarity owner, and interested in Level 2 with a special twist.

I will be parking under a 4-post car lift in the garage. The lift is powered by a dedicated 220V circuit, so it would be very convenient to tap into that circuit with an L2 charger. The slight twist is that this is a 30 amp (AWG 10) circuit. This [should] allow me to obtain a slightly reduced Level2 (80% of 30 amps = 24 amps), only increasing the charge time from 2.5 hours to 3.5 (plenty fine with me).

Here is the dilemma however... There are a plethora of "40 amp" EVSE devices which would yield the full 32A charging rate. That would promptly trip my breaker in an attempt to deliver the vehicle max of 32A. I may have seen a couple of 24 amp chargers, but they are uncommon and unknown quality / unknown UL approval.

An ideal solution would be to install a 40A unit, but change a vehicle setting so charging never exceeds 24 amps. Is there a setting within the vehicle that could do this? It seems like it would be trivial to make an EVSE with a switch setting or similar, optionally commanding the vehicle to use a lower rate, and facilitating a line input that has less ampacity like this...

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Juice box 40pro allows you to choose, 6,12,16,24,32,40 amp settings from the EVSE itself and would mean you could easily adjust it and or keep it If you had a higher current circuit in the future.

JuiceBox Pro 40 Smart Electric Vehicle (EV) Charging Station with WiFi - 40 amp Level 2 EVSE, 24-foot cable, NEMA 14-50 plug, UL and Energy Star Certified, Indoor / Outdoor Use https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UB9R4KO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_eBL3BbEANDBK7
 
Last edited:
petteyg359 said:
To the contrary, every 15A circuit with accessible plugs has a 20A breaker just for that reason, unless the electrician was cheap and shoddy.
Click to expand...
That sounds even worse. 20A breaker on a 15A circuit is definitely wrong.
15A circuit means ≥15A receptacle & ≥15A wire & =15A breaker.

Some people might have 20A wire in wall for future upgrade, and that's another story. As long as the breaker is rated less than other components on circuit.

15A receptacle is rated for 15A short use by default, unless explicitly marked for continuous load. Nothing wrong to have more capacity than rated (except for breaker).
 
MrFixit said:
Excellent !
It was not at all obvious that the Siemens had a selection of current settings. That would seem to be a better choice because [with an upgrade to a 40A main input] it could be used for 'full performance' charging in the future. Thanks for pointing this out.

I see from the instruction manual that there are 5 selections of current (6, 7.5, 15, 22.5, and 30 Amps).

What confuses me however, is the caveat within the amperage adjustment section of the installation. It states:

"Circuit must be sized for the max ampere requirement. Do not de-rate
breakers or conductors based on amperage adjustment"

The implication is that you cannot do what I want [connect it to a 30A circuit] even if I select one of the three lower settings. I do not understand this, unless they are worried about a condition where the vehicle fails to properly reduce the current when requested by the EVSE? Although it seem sensible that it should work fine for my situation, I hesitate to directly violate the manufacturers instructions. Does anyone have an explanation for this caveat in the installation guide?
Click to expand...

Derating breakers should be just fine. You are wasting some copper wire, but the circuit is still (over)protected. Worst case, your charger malfunctioned and draws more than the set value. Then what? The breaker will trip. Exactly as it should do to let you know when something wrong.
 
ryd994 said:
That sounds even worse. 20A breaker on a 15A circuit is definitely wrong.
15A circuit means ≥15A receptacle & ≥15A wire & =15A breaker.

Some people might have 20A wire in wall for future upgrade, and that's another story. As long as the breaker is rated less than other components on circuit.

15A receptacle is rated for 15A short use by default, unless explicitly marked for continuous load. Nothing wrong to have more capacity than rated (except for breaker).
Click to expand...

No. If a circuit says it's 15A, it needs to be 15A, and therefore the breaker needs to be 15 / 0.8 = 18 (and NEC explicitly mentions in a few places that that turns into 20 since there are no 18 A breakers).
 
Disclaimer - I am not an electrician, so please consult a certified one for advice.

That said, I am fairly educated on the matter. I think we have to establish our POVs on a couple very important facts -

a. PHEV may fail to regulate incoming current/amerage. so could your EVSE. I think clarityowner12 already shared his/her story and proved this is a real possibility
b. breaker is last defense. and breakers could fail, too. it's more often than you think
c. you should always have wire rated for higher amperage than your breaker. don't go cheap on the cost of wire. get those rated higher even if you don't expect power draw reaching the rating. of course, don't get carry-over and buy thicker wire than necessary. big wire is more costly and very difficult to work with

So my opinion is (again, please speak and hire a certified electrician) that you don't want to buy a higher amperage EVSE if your circuit cannot handle it. if you car (meaning clarity) cannot handle the current, at least you have a recourse with Honda. Good luck suing the EVSE manufacturer when you house lights on fire when your circuit cannot handle the load. You won't get covered by home insurance. you are out of luck with EVSE manufaturer, especially when they said in the manual your circuit should be rated to the max.

I bought a 40-amp EVSE. ideally, I should have a 32-amp EVSE in case Clarity charger fails me. But I don't take the chance with my EVSE drawing 40 amp on a line that is only rated for 32 amp, even if I have the option to set it to 32 amp.

So in a nutshell, we should have the following amperage setup

circuit rating >= breaker rating >= EVSE max rating = PHEV Charger max draw rating

where '>=' higher than or equal to

that's my 2 cents
 
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lessismore:

[I'm not an electrician either, but an electrical engineer]... Let me test a few more thoughts on you.

If you have a 40 Amp circuit (with AWG8 wire), you are exactly right for the Clarity which draws a maximum of 32A (this exactly meets the required 80% derating for continuous duty). Yes, the Clarity could fail, drawing more than the breaker / wire can deliver safely, but so could your dryer on it's circuit. The breaker will protect the wiring. Could your dryer and your breaker both fail and cause a fire? Sure, but it is not really practical to design for these kind of multiple failure contingencies.

Keep in mind that the EVSE does not control the current in any way (other than just on/off). It is fundamentally just a relay. The EVSE does communicate with the PHEV through the use of the pilot signal in order to inform the PHEV of it's maximum capacity, but it is totally up to the PHEV to control it's charging current accordingly. So, the PHEV could have some kind of failure resulting in excessive current draw (This condition would trip your breaker). It would seem highly unlikely for a failure within the EVSE to result in excessive current.

With respect to the wire being rated higher than the breaker, there is already margin built into the wiring standards (15 Amps (AWG14); 20 Amps (AWG12); 30 Amps (AWG10); 40 Amps (AWG 8)). Thus, you are fine running a 40 amp EVSE on a circuit with a 40 amp breaker and AWG8 wire. Since the Clarity will never draw more than 32 amps, you will also be compliant with the 80% continuous derating rule. If you have a 30 Amp breaker there is no need to go any larger than AWG10, but this circuit should not be used continuously beyond 80% of 30 Amps (24 Amps).

I also believe it is perfectly fine to use a 40 EVSE on a lower branch circuit as long as the EVSE has a provision to command the PHEV to use appropriately less current. The Juice Box and Clipper Creek units mentioned in response to my original post do indeed have this capability, and are advertised for use on branch circuits below their maximum rating. It's just that for some unknown reason the Siemens device seems to have a contrary statement. I have sent an inquiry to Siemens for a clarification and will post their response if I get one.
 
Well, I contacted Siemens to ask whether you can connect their 40A unit to a 30A circuit (provided that you configure it for a max output of 24 Amps or less). They responded, and insist (like the caveat in their installation manual) that it would be a NEC violation to use anything less than a 40 circuit / breaker, period.

Meanwhile, their competitor(s) advertises this as a feature - from the JuiceBox 40 FAQ:

"Can I adjust the output power (amperage) of my JuiceBox. How can I do this?:
Yes, you can adjust the charging power limit in the JuiceNet app or dashboard settings. Use this, for instance, if you have a lower power circuit breaker that you want to ensure is not tripped during charging."

I contacted JuiceBox with a chat just to confirm, and they claim that doing this is fully NEC compliant.

I guess you choose to believe whichever answer best fits your desire ?
 
MrFixit said:
Well, I contacted Siemens to ask whether you can connect their 40A unit to a 30A circuit (provided that you configure it for a max output of 24 Amps or less). They responded, and insist (like the caveat in their installation manual) that it would be a NEC violation to use anything less than a 40 circuit / breaker, period.

Meanwhile, their competitor(s) advertises this as a feature - from the JuiceBox 40 FAQ:

"Can I adjust the output power (amperage) of my JuiceBox. How can I do this?:
Yes, you can adjust the charging power limit in the JuiceNet app or dashboard settings. Use this, for instance, if you have a lower power circuit breaker that you want to ensure is not tripped during charging."

I contacted JuiceBox with a chat just to confirm, and they claim that doing this is fully NEC compliant.

I guess you choose to believe whichever answer best fits your desire ?
Click to expand...
A matter of interpretation:
Relevant NEC Code:
Overcurrent protection for feeders and branch circuits supplying electric vehicle supply equipment shall be sized for continuous duty and shall have a rating of not less than 125 percent of the maximum load of the electric vehicle supply equipment. Where noncontinuous loads are supplied from the same feeder or branch circuit, the overcurrent device shall have a rating of not less than the sum of the noncontinuous loads plus 125 percent of the continuous loads.​

Depends on how you construe the maximum load of the EVSE. Siemens views it as the maximum capability, other manufacturers view the maximum as the limit set when configuring the unit.

The latter makes more sense as the NEC allows load sharing devices that adjust the draw of multiple EVSE's on a circuit to the limits of that circuit. If two EVSE's are installed on a 50A circuit, the load would be allocated between them to stay within the 40A limit. With only one actively charging, it would be allocated the entire 40A, if both were in use the load would be shared between them (20/20, 16/24, etc).
 
DucRider said:
Depends on how you construe the maximum load of the EVSE. Siemens views it as the maximum capability, other manufacturers view the maximum as the limit set when configuring the unit.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think you nailed it !!
With two legitimate interpretations, one manufacturer could choose to take the conservative (thinking they are minimizing possible liability) while another could take the more liberal position in order to gain a market advantage.
 
I looked at a number of chargers, and in my search process, I found the PowerCharge Energy charger for my home. It took about ten minutes to hang up the charger and plug it in. So far, it works great for me. I bought it from EV Charge Solutions on their website and it was to me in five days. What I like is they have a couple of units with different things on it.
 
I have a Clipper Creek which works really well for me. It is plugged in at home and used for two electric vehicles. Not sure of the model #.
 
Back in Aug 2017, I bought a cheap Chinese L2 charger called Zencar ([email protected]) for $324 total. Good thing is that you can customize length and plug type. Mine had 25ft cable and NEMA 14-50 plug. 32A capable. First few days, I stood by holding the cable to make sure it didn't get hot LoL. No issues yet, fingers crossed.

14-50 evse,6.webp
 
WantEV said:
Back in Aug 2017, I bought a cheap Chinese L2 charger called Zencar ([email protected]) for $324 total. Good thing is that you can customize length and plug type. Mine had 25ft cable and NEMA 14-50 plug. 32A capable. First few days, I stood by holding the cable to make sure it didn't get hot LoL. No issues yet, fingers crossed.

View attachment 2841
Click to expand...
I would be very wary of any EVSE from China that is not UL certified. In fact, I would not even consider them from a safety standpoint. IMHO, it’s just not worth the risk to my loved ones and all my possessions to save a hundred dollars or so.
Here is a link to a very informative article on EVSEs from a safety perspective and how you can’t rely on customer reviews in lieu of a UL certification.

https://chargedevs.com/features/amazon-evse-safety/
 
KentuckyKen said:
I would be very wary of any EVSE from China that is not UL certified. In fact, I would not even consider them from a safety standpoint. IMHO, it’s just not worth the risk to my loved ones and all my possessions to save a hundred dollars or so.
Here is a link to a very informative article on EVSEs from a safety perspective and how you can’t rely on customer reviews in lieu of a UL certification.

https://chargedevs.com/features/amazon-evse-safety/
Click to expand...

UL listing provides no warranty against spectacular failure. I'd rather research than blindly trust something because it has a little logo tacked on. Though, from said research, I'm hesitant to buy anything electronic at all from China if it's not backed by a company I trust to fix crap that goes wrong. Hot and sparking USB chargers are one thing. Hot and sparking 8000 watt things that are in my garage where I can't immediately see or smell the hot and sparking thing and unplug it are something else.
 
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