"Angry Bees"

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Different driving patterns. I have no idea how those other people drive...

Very easy, low load driving, will almost never, if ever, activate them.

Also different perceptions of what Angry Bees actually are. Without every individual providing a specific RPM graph like ClarityBill provides, we still have no understanding if one person's 3,000 rpm is the same as another person's 5,000 rpm, in terms of each individuals interpretation of the noises coming from under the hood.
 
Also Ken, if you'd like to experience them, just let your battery go down to zero, set the car out overnight WITHOUT charging it, and go for a nice long cool morning drive with the heater on, starting with 0.0 EV range. I can assure you, no matter how fast or slow you drive, your engine will be forced to rev pretty darn high at some point along that route just to keep itself moving. And now you'll know what they sound like.
 
And gollydagburnit Ken, this time you made me look up "cogent." I just do not have your depth of vocabulary...I usually make up my own.

Good word.
 
craze1cars said:
And that's exactly how the car is programmed to work
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craze1cars:

ClarityBill posted his data first in another thread, but let me ask you something here since you seem to be present now....

If you look at Plot 2, you surmise that the engine rev's initially, because it is 'behind' the HV setpoint, then it settles in. I found it interesting that there are two stretches 11-14 minutes, and 20-27 minutes where the RPM's 'flat-line'. It is my belief that these stretches are operating in direct drive (constant speed, and constant RPM's). Do you agree with this?

With the direct drive gear ratio, does ~2700 RPM correspond to ~74 MPH?
 
That would certainly be my best educated guess. But no way of knowing for sure.

Sorry I frankly don't read every thread here -- so I hadn't seen Bills graphs before.
 
craze1cars said:
Different driving patterns. I have no idea how those other people drive...

Very easy, low load driving, will almost never, if ever, activate them.

Also different perceptions of what Angry Bees actually are. Without every individual providing a specific RPM graph like ClarityBill provides, we still have no understanding if one person's 3,000 rpm is the same as another person's 5,000 rpm, in terms of each individuals interpretation of the noises coming from under the hood.
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I agree revving by itself is normal and OK, thanks for your explanation. But what's missing so far is what might be happening when the angry bees happen along with a loss of power. I've heard the revving many times, but only experienced it with the loss of power once, and it was quite surprising (especially coming on with a half full battery). Others on the forum seem to experience it regularly. It seems like sometimes the car prioritizes recharging over immediate motive power, probably due to a glitch in the software at certain conditions. But I don't know HOW it can do this when the battery has lots of charge in it? Hopefully someone running OBD recording will capture this condition.
 
THAT I have never experienced, and hopefully never will, and I feel it's an indicator of a problem. I drove this car nearly 700 miles one day...where I just set it in EV, left the house, and crossed 2 states. After EV was used up 50 miles from my house I had 0.0 EV range for the next 650 miles, but I never once experienced a loss of power. And I had the cruise control set at about 78 mph the whole way into a semi-stiff headwind. I heard plenty of engine revs, but I had plenty of propulsion power to keep it rolling along nicely, even up steep inclines and for passing acceleration. MPG mostly 35-ish which I felt was reasonable for the speed/terrain/headwind I was running in.
 
I don't see direct drive (gear symbol) in any of my driving over 70 mph. The flat lines were fairly level sections of interstate between hills. The ICE was running the generator, and had settled in to allow the battery to fluctuate slightly. My complaint is the angry bees were trying to make up a couple percent of battery loss too fast... It is interesting that some people complain about battery loss in HV mode, but I would rather see a longer battery recovery with less wear on the engine (my assumption is high RPM's wear out an engine). I don't think I have ever seen the extreme loss of power.
 
ClarityBill said:
I don't see direct drive (gear symbol) in any of my driving over 70 mph. The flat lines were fairly level sections of interstate between hills. The ICE was running the generator, and had settled in to allow the battery to fluctuate slightly. My complaint is the angry bees were trying to make up a couple percent of battery loss too fast... It is interesting that some people complain about battery loss in HV mode, but I would rather see a longer battery recovery with less wear on the engine (my assumption is high RPM's wear out an engine). I don't think I have ever seen the extreme loss of power.
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The likelihood of gear drive definitely decreases over 70 mph for me too, cold temperatures also reduce it. For some reason it also goes down in the rain ??? But there are times where at least low seventies will go to gear drive.
 
For me it’s simple: HV mode on the highway is fine, but around town with the ICE running on this car is an absolutely horrible experience. My dilemma is that I’m based in MA where it’s cheaper to run on gas due to our painfully high electricity rates.
 
I'll concur I rarely see the gear drive at higher speeds -- usually 50 to 70 or it is often there if hills at minimal. Depends on load though. I have seen it at 75mph+ with a tailwind. Headwind no way. If I set cruise control at 65 or so the gear icon is on all the time.

I think at higher speeds the battery simply can't maintain the charge to overcome the wind resistance over time, so the gear is forced to disengage to allow the engine to rev faster.

FWIW high rpms do not hurt or wear out an engine. A common misconception. Higher RPMS within design reasons allow max oil pressure to build, better lubrication, less carbon buildup, etc. Don't fear them. Long term idling is far more detrimental to engines than high rpms are...combustion efficiency in the combustion chamers is just less efficient.

But to be fair, modern engines are far far better at equalizing all this with computer controlled fuel/ignition than older engines ever were. The engine will be the LAST thing to wear out on these cars. I maintain don't worry about it, let it rev when it wants to...it's good for it.
 
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228ra said:
For me it’s simple: HV mode on the highway is fine, but around town with the ICE running on this car is an absolutely horrible experience. My dilemma is that I’m based in MA where it’s cheaper to run on gas due to our painfully high electricity rates.
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I just gotta ask...please don't take this the wrong way...but why own a PHEV if you're going to run it exclusively on gas and not plug it in because electric rates are too high?
 
228ra said:
horrible experience
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I can't relate to this... I haven't seen that the ICE around town is any worse (or better) than a conventional vehicle with a 4-cylinder engine. I have not experienced the bees yet, but short of that, I have never had a 'horrible' experience in this vehicle. It has been a pleasure !
 
228ra said:
For me it’s simple: HV mode on the highway is fine, but around town with the ICE running on this car is an absolutely horrible experience. My dilemma is that I’m based in MA where it’s cheaper to run on gas due to our painfully high electricity rates.
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Have you compared highway versus around town EV mileage? I have been getting 55 range around town versus 30 on the highway. Therefore for me in CT with similar over 20 cent rate its slightly cheaper to run EV around town so that's the only time I use it. On the highway the ICE/HV is significantly cheaper.
 
Wanted to followup on this thread. Thanks to a suggestion from KentuckyKen, I rebooted my car (removed the negative 12v battery terminal) and replaced. Despite some scary alarms during reboot, after driving it a bit, the alarms self-cleared. I've only done one long trip since this change (all HV mode), but I was able to begin ~260 mile journey with 38 miles estimated EV, and keep 26 miles of EV all trip. Car was quiet and happy.

I'll need a little more time to assess (to know if really fixed), but KentuckyKen is my hero already. I appreciate all the helpful feedback from he and others in this forum very much! But yes, rebooting the car may be a tool in the kit for users with abnormal behavior. I'm sort of assuming I'm permanently 'fixed' but even with the behavior I had before I still loved (and continue to love) the car.
 
Dan Albrich said:
I'll need a little more time to assess (to know if really fixed), but KentuckyKen is my hero already
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Dan:

If you truly have a victory with this one, perhaps the 'hard battery reboot' should be captured in the FAQ so others can be aware of this as a tool to possibly solve unusual behavior that is not widely reported. Documentation of this procedure in the FAQ, along with some description of the ominous-sounding messages that occur, and the fact that they clear up would make it easier for others to find.

Of course, it is probably unwise for people to do this 'willy-nilly'... More of a last resort measure.
 
228ra said:
For me it’s simple: HV mode on the highway is fine, but around town with the ICE running on this car is an absolutely horrible experience. My dilemma is that I’m based in MA where it’s cheaper to run on gas due to our painfully high electricity rates.
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Interesting dilemma! If you're having an absolutely horrible experience in your Clarity and can run cheaper on gas, I wonder if you should consider an Accord? They can be purchased nicely equipped for around $22,000 (here in Michigan) and get 33 combined mpg.
 
@craze1cars
I love your explanation! It totally describes my experience in HV mode. Relatively warm 3000 mile Christmas return trip from VT to IS with just me in the car and very little heat needed--no bees.

Trip home from Durham NH through the mountaims with 3 people in the car and the heater blasting, in the cold up, hill against the wind, not realizing i was doing over 70 mph--first experience of bees. The bees stopped as soon as I reduced the speed to 67 mph even though all the other conditions remained the same.
 
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