How to disable VESS (Virtual Engine Sound System) on 2020 (US)

Discussion in 'Kia Niro' started by Nelson1994, Sep 21, 2020.

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  1. Without a schematic or accurate manual, you will be experimenting... all you can do is try to get the documentation or experiment

    I'm not willing to try it until I have good data... but experimenting probably won't cause permanent damage.

    Greg
     
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  3. This video has a great step by step video for how to unplug the speaker.


    Note that doing this and driving the car violates a federal road safety regulation and would put you at risk of a ticket.


    As for the BATT_COOL_EXV system, I recently took a long trip and did a fair amount of fast charging en route. On 50 kW or higher chargers after a point I did hear a fan kick in that immediately cut off when the car throttled down the charge rate to around 24 kWh at 70% full. I suspect this circuit controls this fan and it is important to keep your battery safe during fast charging at higher rates. Maybe it kicks in too driving long distances on a hot day, but I am unsure if I would have noticed it at highway speeds.
    So, you can pull that fuse by YMMV.


    I also wonder if unplugging the speaker as shown in the video above ALSO disables that fan. I don't know if it would, but it is strange that there are four leads going into the speaker. Why would it need any more than two (though if the electronics that generate the signal for the speaker are also in the module, that could be the explanation. Would have to disassemble that module to know)? Does the battery fan system run out of that module too? IS it daisy chained with the fan system so breaking the circuit will disable the fan? Might need to do some fast charging experiments to see....
     
  4. hopefully you read some of this thread in the beginning....

    you would find that this "speaker" is a can bus device

    you would also find that some models have a defeat button in the dash that goes back to the device.

    That should make it clear why there are more wires... the fan has nothing to do with the VESS noise unit.

    Greg
     
  5. Sindhu Rumpler

    Sindhu Rumpler New Member

    don't just pull the fuse , it is a real liability then. Avoid a ticket, instead get a 50$ fuse bypass switch on Amazon. this allows you to switch it off only when the you have to drive backwards , then you can switch it back on! nothing illegal!!
     
  6. So David refers to the video, remove the front fascia and unplug the speaker... nothing to do with the fan.

    Sindhu, you refer to a different way, to pull the fuse that controls the VESS AND more.

    So David, who you quoted, did not ask about pulling the fuse, but unplugging the speaker and why there were 4 wires in the speaker connector... that discussion is also somewhere in the 6 pages of this thread.

    And $50 is way too much to pay for a stupid switch, what a ripoff...

    Greg
     
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  8. in my 2019, the VESS definitely shuts off (or abruptly changes its sound) at ~18 mph. I have noticed I can hear the motor whine when I give it a lot of current when accelerating hard beyond around 30 mph. Electrics are quiet, but not dead silent.
     
  9. Yes true, but not new data on this forum. Most people stifle the VESS speaker because of the backup beep.
     
  10. Guilty! :oops:

    I read some of the thread months ago, but was not all caught up, and It appears I naively stirred up the ants nest...( I see the creator of that excellent youtube video is an eNiro forum denizen and had posted it here already!)

    The four leads thing puzzled me because I did not think about it. I had already observed the frequency changes with speed so there had to be some way of communicating that in. I had no inkling about CAN buses until, reading back, saw you mention them and read some on wikipedia. GND, power (no doubt for some little processor to operate the bus and probs what ever creates the waveform for the speaker) then CAN-low and CAN-high.

    So, it sounds like to customize the sound, there is probably some EPROM in the speaker box that needs to have something new put into, or more likely they have a dedicated mass produced non programmable IC that does the whole shebang that would need to be replaced.

    I would pay for a something custom...like maybe the first 3.8 seconds of the Comedy Bang Bang theme dovetailed together, with the pitch varying with speed. That would be hilarious.

    Maybe the same backwards at a higher volume, or something different to distinguish, like the banging of coconut shells together as suggested by @SAM1130.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. You still need to do some reading and research :)

    So "speaker" is on the CAN bus, and receives commands from the car. So you could send ADDITIONAL commands to it, but you cannot stop the car from sending commands. Disconnecting it has no ill effects, i.e. the car apparently does not get upset if this device is not found on the CAN bus.

    look at this video, and then find the other videos by him.

     
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  13. ENirogus

    ENirogus Active Member

    38 Front End Mod Harness_Moment.jpg 59 VSS_Moment.jpg Quote of my post on the niro forum:
    IT appears the wiring goes through connector EE01 in the drivers side front corner. still looking

    THe switch wires:
    Pink pin 27 EE01 [light for switch]
    Blue/Black pin 26 EE01 [ground this, shuts up VESS]

    Ground Black Pin 31
    Switched power red Pin 4
    Unswitched power red/orange pin 3

    reverse light relay is in the junction box right near EE01

    It appears EE21 pin 36 [orange]is pulled low by the canbus to turn on the back up light relay, and it is in that same box
    So in theory, if you tied EE21 Pin 36 to EE01 pin 26, it 'should' shut the back up alarm off

    EM11 pin 45 [blue/black] is the other end of EE01 pin 27 where it is supposed to enter the cabin, for the switch we don't have

    The VSS section in the shop manual [rather than the electrical manual] shows no connection on pins 3 and 7 at the VESS unit, meaning no wiring out to it for the switch.
    It also shows 'flash memory' internal to the VESS unit, meaning in theory the sounds are stored there, and some clever hacker could change them to whatever they wanted

    If you go back to post 77, when Ms Ko unplugs the unit, you can clearly see that the blue and pink wires are in the harness, so they must go as far as EE01
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2021
  14. ENirogus

    ENirogus Active Member

    10Service Body Electrical Power Window to Rain Sensor_Moment.jpg I will say that the Eniro is more closely related to my phone than most cars I have owned.
    And as such, why can I not hack my car?
    REwrite the flash memory and put in whatever sound I want
    I am thinking the voice of the depressed robot in 'Hitchhikers Guide' saying 'Beep Beep, oh lord do I really have to do this?'
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2021
  15. We don't know how much space is in there. It could literally be a waveform generator of a dozen frequencies that are mixed with some other frequency that changes with the speed byte and then the speaker vibrates at the resulting beat frequencies.

    We also don't know if the sound data is stored on an EEPROM or a OTP ROM or even a custom chip (the latter might be cheapest if they are making hundreds of thousands of these).

    It is fun to think that there is some sound file stuck in memory someplace that can be rewritten, but that is probably not least expensive way to implement the function. @Greg Elmassian might have insight into that. I am just an optics and sensors person.
     
  16. ENirogus

    ENirogus Active Member

    Well, it does say flash memory, so that is all I know.

    IT would appear that if you remove the driver side wheel arch liner you can gain access to the connector EE01. I can put my hand on it, it is underneath the headlight assembly, but I cannot remove it.
     
  17. snowy2020

    snowy2020 New Member

    Do you have any evidence to back that up? Not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely interested if this is a verifiable fact or just an assumption.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
  18. https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/CFR-2018-title49-vol6/CFR-2018-title49-vol6-sec571-141

    https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2018/02/26/2018-03721/federal-motor-vehicle-safety-standard-no-141-minimum-sound-requirements-for-hybrid-and-electric


    This regulation actually probably only applies to manufacturers, but I am not a lawyer.


    There could be a rider attached to funding appropriations requiring states to create misdemeanor traffic laws about operating electric vehicles without these systems (much like highway funding is contingent on the minimum drinking age in a state be 21 years old) , but I do not know this has been done.

    There may need to be a local or state law to prevent people from operating vehicles that do not produce a certain amount of noise. Check your state's laws.
     
  19. The VESS defeat wire does not make it to the panel where the switch would be..

    Note: 2020 USA Niro EV... different for 2019 Niro US models, different for other countries..

    I will eventually download the correct schematic for my car and see if I can disconnect the wire somewhere, but I really want a switch in the interior...

    Notice the title of this thread is 2020 US car...
     
  20. ENirogus

    ENirogus Active Member

    This is the schematic you get when you enter 2020 Kia EV into the system
    note the heading on the images
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2021
  21. I see... it does not say US model, or UK model or Canada model.

    Those 2 wires for the VESS do NOT come to the dashboard.

    If you are interested in the US model, and having the correct information then visit here:
    https://elmassian.com/index.php/electronics-aamp-gadgets/vehicles/kia-niro-ev

    Pictures of the wires, connectors, switch innards, etc.

    I not only show and checked the connector, but disassembled the switch cluster to verify the pins and wires to that missing button.

    In the US models, those 2 wires are not delivered to the dashboard. The pinout of the wires in the US model are different.

    If your schematic purports to be the US model, then it is in error... but of course since the US does not have that switch and indicator, your schematic is ALREADY PROVEN wrong for the 2020 US model.

    Greg
     
  22. ENirogus

    ENirogus Active Member

    Greg, what can I say? The only schematic I saw in your link is the same[well similar] as the one I posted
    DO you have a schematic that purports to be for Federal 2020 Kiv Niro EV? If so, please share.
    There were no other options for the Niro EV given on the portal, so I don't know where to find them. It was pretty time consuming downloading the entire manual as they don't want you to do that apparently, so I will be pissed if I have to do it again.
    Many wiring diagrams will show all options, whether installed or not. Perhaps this is the case
    AS far as ALREADY PROVEN, the video of the bumper removal and unplugging of the module shows the appropriate color wires in, I believe, the correct locations in the front harness. Nowhere did I say it came into the dash.

    BUUUUT
    Looking at your picture of the harness, there are both a pink and blue with a black stripe wires in the connector
    AAAAAAAAAAAND if that is a 24 pin connector, they just might be in pins 9 and 10 exactly where my ALREADY PROVEN wrong schematic places them

    SO, how about just lightening the hell up a bit, eh?

    [edit] appears there is a gray at what would be pin 22[if those wires are to be assumed to be in pins 9 and 10] and a blue at what would be pin 20 so I think that connector conforms to the schematic I posted
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2021
  23. Yep, and I note that the schematic is NOT for my car.

    I'm not sure what your point is. I have not seen a schematic that is correct for my car, and you don't have it either.

    There is a way to download the service manuals for the specific cars, and it is expensive, and as I indicated, I will eventually do it.

    I wish you would actually READ what I wrote, I found the colors, but they do NOT go to the pins as indicated, nor do they go where the switch would be.

    To be clear, the wires with the seemingly "right" colors go to a different switch with a different function. Did you not notice I disassembled the switch unit and traced where the wires actually went?

    Clearly you did not understand or read carefully.

    I have researched this way beyond what you are saying, and the next step is to find an accurate schematic or to remove the front clip and trace the wires through the harness.

    Greg
     

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