Don't buy the Mini EV if you need to drive in snow.

I believe I have the same, 195 /55 R16 91R XL BSW from Discount Tire. My summers are Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 3 which are 69 dB, and are rated noisier than your Hankooks. In my case the difference between the tire noise levels is smaller, so we could both be right.

 

And then there are weirdos like me: true believers in the factual science behind winter tires, but whose personal experience makes them question their faith.

I’ve read and continue to read countless comparison tests between 2WD cars on winter tires vs. AWD cars on all seasons, I’m fully aware of all the irrefutable objective arguments for winter tires (including the advantages of the winter compound in the cold, even when roads are dry, etc.), and would never even begin to suggest that all that data is anything other than entirely truthful, nor would I ever dream about discouraging anyone from investing in the best winter tires they can afford. But my subjective experience with winter tires was such a letdown that I opted for all seasons for the winter on my new SE.

I drove my previous FWD car, a VW Jetta diesel wagon, for two winters on its OEM all seasons and three winters on Michelin X-Ice Xi3s, and I couldn’t discern any advantage from the IceXs. After hearing so many owners over the years describe the “night and day difference” between dedicated winters and all seasons, I was prepared to be blown away — but from my own experience, I have no idea what they’re talking about. (To be clear, I don’t doubt their account of their experiences, my experience was simply different from theirs.) And the X-Ice Xi3 isn’t exactly a shabby winter tire.

(The one time in my many years of driving that I did experience a “night and day difference” with superior winter traction: the first time I effortlessly climbed a very steep snow-covered hill in my AWD VW Golf R32 on its OEM all-season tires — I couldn’t believe the winter roadgoing ability of that car compared to all the 2WD cars I’d had before it! But I digress…)

Again, NOT trying to discourage anyone from going with winters — unquestionably a smart choice! But given how underwhelming my experience with them was, combined with how infrequently we get serious snows where I live, and how rarely I ever really need to go out in dicey wintry conditions, I figure the excellent all seasons on my SE will safely get me where I need to go while arguably giving me a nicer (if not objectively safer) drive on the dry roads I encounter the majority of days in the winter — and with the bonus of not having to worry about wearing down the softer compound of winter tires when temperatures fluctuate to unseasonably warm levels on odd days here and there as happens every year during the winter months.

So I am absolutely a proponent of winter tires. Just not an enthusiastic one. Had a really great winter tire with a very good eco rating been available when my SE was finally delivered on December 20 — a month and a half later than I had originally expected it, when winter tires can be hard to come by even in years without massive supply chain issues — I very well might’ve gone with them with the hope that they might actually impress me this time around. But I was able to get my first choice in an all-season tire, and so far I’m very happy with them. (But don’t worry, @revorg, I’ll keep my distance! )

 

I've never driven on all-season tires, so I don't have a good basis for comparison, but I guarantee that for winter driving my Michelin X-ICE® XI3 tires offer a huge advantage over my wonderful OEM summer-performance Hankooks (which are somehow both sticky and electron-efficient).

Also, speaking from no all-season tire experience, I'm guessing the Hankooks are more fun in the summer than any all-season tire. I'm bummed no tire store can get another set of MINI-sized Hankooks after mine wear out, but happy to read on this forum that MINI dealers can get them.

 

No doubt about that!

Your post also prompted me to actually look up the exact model of those Michelin winters I had a few years ago…I had incorrectly described them as the IceX, but they were actually the same X-Ice Xi3 you have, @insightman. (I just corrected this in my previous post.)

 

(Also digressing...) You must have had a 2008. My 2004 was delivered, in February, on high-performance Goodyear summer tires. Thankfully, I drop-shipped a winter wheel & tire package from TireRack to my dealership so I could actually drive it home since we had a massive snow storm the day before I took delivery. That said, absolutely agree that AWD is a game-changer! My R32 was the best bad-weather car I have owned to-date. (Still waiting for the opportunity to try my SE in real snow.) <sigh>

This is the crux of the matter: Not everyone needs snow tires. With the conditions you describe, I would agree that all-seasons are totally adequate for your needs and snow tires would be overkill.

 

Maybe it's a matter of degrees (pun intended). I'm not sure Pittsburgh experiences the same extreme winters more northern locales do. I think all-seasons work fairly fine until you start getting into below-zero or blizzard-like conditions.

 

It really just depends on temperature. (Graph in Celsius)


All seasons are fine until you need to do an emergency stop or swerve to avoid a car/obstacle or hit an unexpectedly slippery spot. The difference in stopping distance (snow, ice, and even dry+cold pavement) may not feel like night and day but could easily be the difference between a close call and a smashed SE...

AWD with all seasons can actually accelerate better than FWD with winters but at colder temperatures stopping with winter tires is always better.

 

Yes, my R32 was the 2008 — my first AWD performance car — and the best I’ve had in bad weather, too! A very good car but very inefficient with fuel; I definitely liked mine but can’t say I loved it. Glad to have had that experience, though — don’t regret any of the cars I’ve had over the years.

 

It is fairly rare for us to experience such extremes here. We usually have no more than a day or two of below-zero (F) temps per winter, get heavy snow quite infrequently, and almost never get snowed in for days in a row. After I posted last night I realized that in fairness I should also have made the point that the even milder-than-normal winters we had here while I was running my winter tires certainly also contributed to my disappointment with them — I think I was deprived of adequately awful conditions to really put them to the test and potentially impress me! (Not that I’m complaining about getting a break a few winters in a row…)

 

Excellent points. Agree 100%!

 

I'd be interested to know how much more expensive insurance will be for the Taycan. Will it be less expensive than for a Porsche 911 Turbo?

 

Hello everyone, new member here! I'd like to chime in on this topic with my experiences as a Swede.

Contrary to popular belief, we don't have polar bears and blondes walking around everywhere, but we do have proper winters from time to time.

At least for me, all-seasons are not close to being an option. And summer tyres in the winter - Are you insane? Proper winter tyres are the only way to go. However, I'm not as hardcore as some that claim that studded tyres are the only option. Studless tyres have come a long way in the past two decades and the few occasions where you actually need studded tyres are few and far inbetween. Studded tyres are banned in a few locations, but interestingly enough almost all emergency vehicles drive around on studded tyres. I'll let you draw your own conclusions from that.

My vehicle history is countless FWD Saabs (arguably capable winter cars), one AWD Saab and two xDrive BMW's. And now the Mini. I've had the Mini for less than a month and snow has been absent for most of that time. We did get plenty of snow a few days ago and I wouldn't say thay the Mini struggled, but it didn't feel as capable as my previous Saabs in terms of traction. The traction control light is on constantly when accelerating. It could be due to the winter tyres, Dunlop SP Winter 3D something.. It's not what I would've chosen if it was up to me, but they came with the lease (Swedish lease cars typically come with winter+summer wheels). They seem to be biased towards driving feel rather than actual winter grip, much like a continental Europe studless tyre. I had continental European studless (Pirelli Sotto Zero) on my M135i and it was a blast to drive. Put the car in Sport+ to allow some slip angle and you would go everywhere sideways with a huge smile. But don't count on having grip when it counts.

My choice is proper Nordic studless tyres for winter: Continental VikingContact 7. High level of grip when it counts, low noise and decent driving feel.
For summer I'll probably go with Goodyear EfficientGrip Performance2. Good performance and low road noise as well as rolling resistance.

All-seasons are a compromise. At least with my perspective, there's maybe a 1-month window in spring and autumn where they'll be the best choice. The rest of the year nordic winter tyres or summer tyres are the only option. I enjoy changing wheels on the car, but twice a year is enough.

 

The default traction mode slips a lot in winter conditions, did you try switching to DTC (turn off DSC)? That provides much less wheel spin in loose snow conditions. See the thread on traction modes for details. I did recently discover that if you engage cruise control while in DTC it automatically turns DSC back on. Which makes sense I guess, one probably shouldn't be using cruise control if the road conditions aren't ideal for traction.

 

I think this is partly due to the engagement of traction control is so smooth and seamless, and the lack of a combustion engine where I will hear the engine loosing traction, with associated brake application. Much less drama compared to an ICE car, so it's more difficult to apply the appropriate torque demand with my right foot.

I do have the traction mode thread on a different browser tab for later reading, but knowing myself I'll just adapt my right foot to the new vehicle and its conditions instead of fiddling with the traction control.

 

I think you have that a bit backwards... The default DSC traction control allows almost no slip (which is why the traction light is always on, indicating limited power)

DTC allows more slip to keep the car from losing momentum but because the wheels are allowed to spin, stability is reduced

 

+1 on this one.

 

Welcome to the forum!

The MINI (and really most other EVs) has fantastic traction control that is great at preventing any wheel spin, however it'll feel very weird to someone used to traction control on a traditional ICE.

You won't notice the car "fighting" for traction as the engine rpm surges and the brakes grab back and forth because that is all happening faster than you can perceive thanks to the electric motor!

Rather than looking at the traction control light as an indicator of wheel slip, it is actually just telling you that power is being limited to prevent wheel spin (the wheels aren't necessarily slipping when that light is on).

The MINI also has much more precise measurements of wheel speed (through the electric motor) so the traction control light is more sensitive.

 

Thank you!

Yes, there are definitely advantages of electric motors compared to ICE. I have to admit that many times I've just looked at the traction control light as confirmation for "Yup, I'm definitely traction-limited" when I think I'm lacking in acceleration. There are things I like about EV's and there are things I dislike, but overall I'm a very happy camper.

 

The feeling of less acceleration could be that you are just getting used to the instant torque! After about a month of exclusively driving my SE, I had to drive my wife's ICE and thought I had left the parking brake on or something lol.

The SE does have a more balanced weight distribution than typical FWD cars so it will accelerate a little bit slower with less weight on the front wheels. Not sure if it would be enough to actually notice though.