Ford makes deal with Tesla to share its Supercharger network

Tim Mangini said:
There is a valid reason to purchase an adapter even if you can't use the Tesla supercharger network. I purchased an EVSE Tesla to J1772 adapter for my Kia so that I can use a Tesla level 2 charger if that is the only charger available.
Click to expand...

I try to keep all the various AC gender-benders handy in the car. I have a Tesla L2 to 1772, and I have a 240/16A in the vehicle that is NEMA 6-20 with adapters for 5-15,14-30,10-30,14-50. Covers an overnight stay most places where you happen to find an outlet. If you are with friends & family for more than a day, which let's you grab the dryer plug or an RV spot. . Debated the twistloc adapters as well for a 240v generator.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, those companies are probably just working out the details before signing on the dotted line.


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
 
I've had a brief email exchange with the folks at a2zevshop about their converters, primarily asking how
the thermal cutoff works. Got a quite reasonable answer: it's passive, a simple thermal switch that kills
the pilot line until things cool down again. Presumably any DCFC would shut down very soon upon losing
comms with the car. I also found their videos, and it all looks pretty sweet. They are holding back on "typhoon"
availability until they see how all this settles out with Tesla before going into sales.

I've also been looking into the Tesla web API a little. Pretty standard stuff with an API key to get session
bearer-auth cookies and renew them, and there's no reason a chunk of Tesla's normal website couldn't
wrap the same kind of UX around it like the app does. Again, an entirely political problem.

_H*
 
The 50 kW maximum charge rate of the 2017 BMW i3-REx I'm driving home Saturday is unlikely to have a thermal problem. But it is my Tesla backup car which means I'll seldom need remote charging. The 630 cc driven generator means I can avoid the worst of CCS-1, fast DC charging.

Bob Wilson
 
hobbit said:
I've had a brief email exchange with the folks at a2zevshop about their converters, primarily asking how
the thermal cutoff works. Got a quite reasonable answer: it's passive, a simple thermal switch that kills
the pilot line until things cool down again. Presumably any DCFC would shut down very soon upon losing
comms with the car. I also found their videos, and it all looks pretty sweet. They are holding back on "typhoon"
availability until they see how all this settles out with Tesla before going into sales.

I've also been looking into the Tesla web API a little. Pretty standard stuff with an API key to get session
bearer-auth cookies and renew them, and there's no reason a chunk of Tesla's normal website couldn't
wrap the same kind of UX around it like the app does. Again, an entirely political problem.

_H*
Click to expand...

There are missing bits that need to be ironed out in the backend. For one thing ISO15118 handshake needs to work so that billing works correctly. That isn't something that the adapter needs to do - this is something entirely between the vehicle and the supercharger, and we have no idea if superchargers other than the ones upgraded for magic dock have this capability yet.

Given the currents involved, it may come down that Tesla only wants "approved" adapters being used. But if they are passive, then I don't know how they would be able to tell.
 
If it has a pilot line through it , 15118 should just flow unhampered. For P&C or autocharge, and both
need to be supported.

_H*
 
hobbit said:
If it has a pilot line through it , 15118 should just flow unhampered. For P&C or autocharge, and both
need to be supported.

_H*
Click to expand...

That's one part. But not every car supports P&C. Some may need software updates - some might need hardware updates. And some older cars might not get either one due to manufacturer indifference.

Then the superchargers - here we don't know much. Do they need updates of some sort to be able to support 15118, or are they ready to go? Just a SW update, or is there a HW update also required? If some are ready to go, which ones? For example, if all V3 are already capable, that would be useful to know.
 
Fisker adopts NACS starting Q1 2025, signing an agreement for access to the Supercharger Network. They will supply an NACS to CCS adapter.
Later will update engineering to include NACS port and include a CCS adaptor so customers can continue to utilize that standard.
Fisker_Ocean_for_Deliveries_PR.jpg

Sure would be nice to know if details of these "agreements" include the use of software/hardware to enable P&C, Auto charge, ISO 15118 without the Tesla app requirement as mentioned in previous posts.
 
Last edited:
Honda, Acura adopts as well:

"We clearly depend on GM," Shinji Aoyama, Executive Vice President of Honda Motor Co., said during Friday's interview. "Once they [switch to NACS], this will follow for ZDX, as well."

"The software needs to be really reliable and really open infrastructure so it communicates with every OEM's software," Jay Joseph, American Honda's Vice President of Sustainability and Business Development, said in Friday's interview. "The hardware needs to be capable of the highest levels of charging. It needs to be secure, it needs to be reliable, it needs to be accessible."

"If you look at what's so great about the Tesla Supercharger network, it's the maintenance," Joseph said. "They stay on top of it, they've got someone onsite monitoring the equipment, they're monitoring it electronically and remotely, and they fix it – fast. That's probably the most important thing."

2024 Acura ZDX Type S

05-2024-Acura-ZDX-Type-S-copy.jpg
 
electriceddy said:
"If you look at what's so great about the Tesla Supercharger network, it's the maintenance," Joseph said. "They stay on top of it, they've got someone onsite monitoring the equipment, they're monitoring it electronically and remotely, and they fix it – fast. That's probably the most important thing."
Click to expand...


It's not just maintenance. Tesla also put in more stalls per location here in North America, and the connector is easier to use.
 
Recommended resource: https://evadoption.com/ev-models/bev-models-currently-available-in-the-us/

This is an excellent price-performance web page if somewhat large. The lower sections include all Model 3 trims, a good thing. The first table had only one Model 3 listed with no trim identification. They have the data, the important part, even if it is a little tricky to navigate.

From their home page, it starts by promoting their commercially available market research service and reports. These would be a great source for reporters, businesses, and technology savvy stock advisors. But it looked like a 'paywall.' So I was happy to find I could manually access required pages with similar data that this 73 year old, retired engineer appreciates and can afford ... ie. free.

There is a challenge to mix pay-wall reporting with affordable access to fixed income, curious. I hope they keep the affordable access open and don't starve my curiosity.

Bob Wilson
 
Jaguar joins NCAS:
  • Jaguar has signed an agreement with Tesla to provide access to 12,000+ Superchargers for its current and future customers using the North American Charging Standard (NACS) connector
  • The next generation luxury electric Jaguars, launching in 2025, will incorporate the NACS connector without the need for an adapter in the USA, Canada and Mexico
  • Jaguar will adopt the NACS connector on vehicles and home chargers and source and supply adapters from Tesla for I-PACE drivers once available
  • Hero%20Image.jpg
 
electriceddy said:
Maybe next week, what do think?
Hyundai looks to be preparing to announce NACS support - Drive Tesla (driveteslacanada.ca)
Click to expand...

I'm amused that Hyunda, Kia, Et al would be concerned the only Tesla superchargers that support higher voltage charging are in europe. Someone should let them know that of the two 300+ KW stations in the US that actually will deliver 300KW, one of them is broken.

Just because there is a label on it doesn't mean it will deliver it. My understanding is most of the Tesla chargers actually put out what they say they will. I think most EV drivers would be happy if they could go to plugshare, locate a nearby station, go there and find an open working stall that pumps 50KW. Anything over that is just gravy, first and foremost it has to actually be functional.
 
Back of the envelope speeds and durations for 100 mi @4mi/kW, short ~1:30 (hh:mm) drive, a scaleable metric:
  • 7.2 kW (L2) - 29 mi/hr -> ~3:25 (hh:mm)
  • 50 kW (low DC) - 200 mi/hr -> ~0:30 (hh:mm)
  • 150 kW (medium DC) - 600 mi/hr -> ~0:10 (hh:mm)
  • 250 kW (high DC) - 1,000 mi/hr -> ~0:06 (hh:mm)
My Tesla has a triangular shaped, DC charging curve versus the flat, nearly constant, curve on the BMW i3. My Model 3 has a maximum charge rate of 178 kW so all of them work pretty much the same.

There is a charging lane overhead. For my BMW i3, CCS-1 parking, remove socket covers, plugging-in, and paying will take typically 0:02 (hh:mm), use a stopwatch App to measure. For Tesla, parking and plugging-in, 0:01 (hh:mm).

I am not ready to 'model' diversion from the direct route to and from a charger. For example, I have a 25 mi, ~30 min, diversion to Tupelo to 150 kW chargers instead of direct via Corinth MS, 7.2 kW chargers. If working, I can charge enough in L2 to complete my trip.

Bob Wilson
 
Last edited:
Merging Bob's point with mine. Nine times out of ten, it's about being able to get a reasonable charge period. A great reliable (say) 25KW unit in Corinth would be awesome vs hunting something that may or may not actually deliver 350, 30 miles out of the way. By adding Tesla stations to the mix you just get more options. I think this is one of the traps we fall into. At the end of the day it's about having confidence you can get from point A to point B without a problem. The time it takes is important, but knowing the time it's going to take is more important. I rather have 7 50KW stalls available staggered along my route, next to a place with modest facilities, than one 350KW station 30 miles out of the way. This takes all the stress out of a "Day Trip". If you are doing a multi-day journey, then the higher charging rates get more important, and that's where things like 'Plugshare' get more important.

I don't know if Tesla already does this, but what really needs to happen is better scheduling between the car and the station. In a perfect world, you'd hit the Dash on your car, and pick a charging time/location. This would shoot back to the network, and give you options/estimates based on other requests and current activity at the stations that fit the criteria. This dovetails with the 7 50KW stations comment above: Three pairs of 50KW stations networked along a route 30-50 miles apart, tap the screen, I'd like to charge, points A and C have an open station B is full, but we estimate 1 station will be open 5 minutes after you get there. I think Tesla has something like this.

Also like Tesla you need to be able to register your car on the various charging networks. I want to just plug in, the station see's my car is registered, and starts charging. This also dovetails to these scenarios. It would be fairly simple to then reserve a spot in line at a busy station, say anything with over a 5 minute wait. Someone off-net would get de-prioritized and not allowed to charge if you are already waiting. "Ding! Now serving K27". Some of this stuff is coming.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top