Low Conductivity Coolant Change Procedure

[herode10]

Herode10 I am not sure where you are located but just be sensitive to conditions that invoke the severe usage schedule. Here in Canada Hyundai fair or not considers the whole country as falling under the severe usage maintenance schedule. Its quite a bit more restrictive. Also keep in mind many of 2019 models have the more conventional green coolant that should be much cheaper and generally longer change intervals.

I'm in Canada as well. My Kona was build in May 2019 and coolant fluid is blue. Maintenance Under Severe Usage Conditions doesn't calls for early coolant replacement. I was just surprise to read here that coolant should be replaced after 60000km. I remember reading somewhere it was 100000km but looking this morning at my owner's manual I got different information. Still waiting for my battery replacement with currently 85000km, I was happy to get it replaced for free...
I don't want to pollute this tread since it's main purpose is to talk about Coolant Change Procedure. I was just puzzled with contradictory informations.

 

[larez]

Have you tested your existing coolant with a multimeter to see if actually needs changing? Since there is no ICE I would think the maintenance interval would be much much longer.

Does it say anywhere if the recommended coolant is IAT or HOAT or possible OAT (I wouldn’t think it to be OAT). My guess is good as any but I think the blue stuff is usually HOAT.

If we can find the coolant specifications, then we can figure out alternatives to the dealership prices.

Also instead of a full flush if there is an easier way to drain some of it and add some fresh coolant maybe just do that every 10-20k miles. I been doing that on a couple different vehicles and the coolant tests fine and still looks brand new, in fact the coolant on my Prius still looks brand new and the car has 250k+ miles on it - it’s never has a full coolant flush.

 

[Kirk]

If the blue coolant is truly non-conductive, then that explains why Hyundai says not to dilute it. They have no control over the water a customer might use; there are parts of this country where the water is "as hard as nails". Using that water would defeat the non-conductive properties of the blue coolant.
BUT the blue coolant price is far higher than any other oem coolants that try to prevent conductive damage.

 

[KiwiME]

Yes, we're kind of going around in circles here. The bottom line is that we now understand it's a special non-conductive coolant used at 100% concentration, not at all a conventional type using in ICE.
We now need to understand how to complete the specified maintenance at a reasonable price.

Don't they do a coolant change, when they replace the battery?

No, the procedure indicates that it's only a top-up of whatever type was originally installed.

 

[navguy12]

Have you tested your existing coolant with a multimeter to see if actually needs changing? Since there is no ICE I would think the maintenance interval would be much much longer.

Does it say anywhere if the recommended coolant is IAT or HOAT or possible OAT (I wouldn’t think it to be OAT). My guess is good as any but I think the blue stuff is usually HOAT.

If we can find the coolant specifications, then we can figure out alternatives to the dealership prices.

Also instead of a full flush if there is an easier way to drain some of it and add some fresh coolant maybe just do that every 10-20k miles. I been doing that on a couple different vehicles and the coolant tests fine and still looks brand new, in fact the coolant on my Prius still looks brand new and the car has 250k+ miles on it - it’s never has a full coolant flush.

I like this line of thought.

When I became aware of this ticking (maintenance) time bomb (akin to spark plugs in late model Ford F-150s) my first thought was, “if the product has not lost any of its non conductive properties at 60,000 km, I cannot see how it would become acidic because the system simply doesn’t get nearly as hot as an ICE system…”

I suppose a subject matter expert could test a new sample of the fluid for conductivity and then a used sample to see what the decay in performance really is.

 

[KiwiME]

There seems to be plenty of information on the 'net regarding measuring fluid conductivity. I think that's a viable option although we don't yet know how far off the original value we can deviate.

 

[navguy12]

One random thought on this subject (while I was swapping out my reduction gear oil yesterday):

I wonder what, if any, changes were made to any components, within the whole enclosed cooling system, that are in contact with the coolant between the last VIN that came with “green” coolant and the very next VIN that came off the assembly line.

If the parts inside the battery packs are the same between the green coolant VINs and the blue coolant VINs, why aren’t the green coolant VINs getting a safety recall?

I know my TM3 has the blue coolant and there is no call for changing that fluid out as part of a routine maintenance program.

 

[R P]

Thankfully, my car has the green coolant, so when it comes time to change that it will be cheaper.

 

[KiwiME]

... I wonder what, if any, changes were made to any components, within the whole enclosed cooling system, that are in contact with the coolant between the last VIN that came with “green” coolant and the very next VIN that came off the assembly line.
If the parts inside the battery packs are the same between the green coolant VINs and the blue coolant VINs, why aren’t the green coolant VINs getting a safety recall? I know my TM3 has the blue coolant and there is no call for changing that fluid out as part of a routine maintenance program.

I doubt that there were any related design changes because in the battery replacement procedure it says to top-up with the same colour originally found, implying that the same battery pack is supplied for both. That's where I'd expect to see changes if any were needed. You'd think that details like coolant type would be identifiable by VIN beforehand, but it seems not.

I think the blue coolant was an on-the-fly preventative measure because Hyundai at the time were unsure why cars were bursting into flames. Now they know coolant was not the root cause.
Unless there's a safety issue I can't see them feeling obligated (or forced) to retroactively update the existing fleet. Technology moves forward and we mostly have to accept the state of technology of the product at the time of purchase.

The blue coolant in the TM3 may not necessarily be non-conductive, but that's TBD. On that note however, if you've followed the tasteless YouTube video of the Model S being blown up by its owner, the story is that leaking coolant caused a battery fire or failure in the car and the replacement cost was excessive.

Thankfully, my car has the green coolant, so when it comes time to change that it will be cheaper.

Mine as well but the outcome will affect my future upgrade decisions. Plus we have to be sure to leg-it a bit faster out of the car in the event of an accident

 

[navguy12]

I doubt that there were any related design changes because in the battery replacement procedure it says to top-up with the same colour originally found, implying that the same battery pack is supplied for both. That's where I'd expect to see changes if any were needed. You'd think that details like coolant type would be identifiable by VIN beforehand, but it seems not.

I think the blue coolant was an on-the-fly preventative measure because Hyundai at the time were unsure why cars were bursting into flames. Now they know coolant was not the root cause.
Unless there's a safety issue I can't see them feeling obligated (or forced) to retroactively update the existing fleet. Technology moves forward and we mostly have to accept the state of technology of the product at the time of purchase.

The blue coolant in the TM3 may not necessarily be non-conductive, but that's TBD. On that note however, if you've followed the tasteless YouTube video of the Model S being blown up by its owner, the story is that leaking coolant caused a battery fire or failure in the car and the replacement cost was excessive.
Mine as well but the outcome will affect my future upgrade decisions. Plus we have to be sure to leg-it a bit faster out of the car in the event of an accident

This is why I can’t see why I would HAVE to change out my three year old blue coolant simply because Hyundai thinks it will loose some of its non conductivity characteristics over time…

 

[KiwiME]

Certainly ... it seems highly likely that it's still a perfectly good thermal coolant. I wouldn't be concerned about leaving it if my Kona was so equipped, it can't be any less safe than the green coolant. A Hyundai tech I was chatting to yesterday on Reddit thinks the price will drop at some point. He said he thinks his dealership in Calgary sells it for around $45/2L.

 

[mikeselectricstuff]

This is why I can’t see why I would HAVE to change out my three year old blue coolant simply because Hyundai thinks it will loose some of its non conductivity characteristics over time…

It's not exactly difficult to measure the conductivity of coolant to see if it needs replacing

 

[OzKona]

It's not exactly difficult to measure the conductivity of coolant to see if it needs replacing

I'll bow to your knowledge, Mike, but I doubt it would be as simple as sticking two probes from a multimeter into a jar of coolant. Wouldn't there be considerations such as temperature, surface area of probes, distance apart, etc to be considered? I presume there's some SAE or ISO or OEM regime that governs all that stuff. And you'd have to have the coolant specs so you have a yardstick to measure against. All do-able of course, but maybe not so simple?

 

[mikeselectricstuff]

I'll bow to your knowledge, Mike, but I doubt it would be as simple as sticking two probes from a multimeter into a jar of coolant. Wouldn't there be considerations such as temperature, surface area of probes, distance apart, etc to be considered? I presume there's some SAE or ISO or OEM regime that governs all that stuff. And you'd have to have the coolant specs so you have a yardstick to measure against. All do-able of course, but maybe not so simple?

The comment was relating to the fact that the service regime apparently says to replace at a specific mileage, whereas it could very easily be changed to a "check and replace if necessary" action.
Yes it could be a simple as sticking a couple of multimeter probes in a sample container - I don't know what the actual specs are, but the difference between an essentially non-conductive coolant and one that has any risk of causing issues is likely to be big enough that the measurement does not need to be particularly precise.
My car has the old coolant otherwise I'd try measuring it myself!

 

[navguy12]

I suppose one of the testors that one finds with a simple Google/Amazon search may become part of my toolbox.

Of course, one would have to purchase a new bottle of the blue coolant and test that to assume some sort of baseline…

 

[KiwiME]

You would think the car’s systems could do this on a continuous basis, much like it already does the battery isolation to chassis ground.

Just for a lark I measured the green coolant resistance from inside the reservoir to chassis ground. I couldn't get both probes through the opening so settled on chassis ground at the battery for one end, to save running upstairs again and jury-rigging some wires off the probes. In retrospect it might be a better test as every Kona will have that same conductive "path length."

It settled on 3.8 M-ohm after a minute or 2, noting that the path length is certainly much further than what it takes to short across the battery pack internally.

So, if a blue coolant owner wants to check that same thing it might be enlightening. Or, if we can establish a standard gap across which to measure I don't mind repeating the test.

 

[eurokeitai]

What Tesla uses as a coolant?

The better question is how does Tesla manage a lifetime of a car without replacing cooland while hyundai-kia do it as a regular maintenence item? Quote from Tesla manual

Fluid Replacement Intervals:
* Your Battery coolant does not need to be replaced for the life of your vehicle under most circumstances.
* Brake fluid should be checked every 2 years, replacing if necessary.

Note: Any damage caused by opening the Battery coolant reservoir is excluded from the warranty.

 

[Ginginova]

Tesla has quite a short duration of basic warranty on one side.
On the other side I suspect that they do not have a paranoia for coolant leaks bursting batteries into flames which has engulfed Hyundai over last 2 years when they changed to new coolant and they did not know the root cause of the fires.

 

[navguy12]

Tesla has quite a short duration of basic warranty on one side.
On the other side I suspect that they do not have a paranoia for coolant leaks bursting batteries into flames which has engulfed Hyundai over last 2 years when they changed to new coolant and they did not know the root cause of the fires.

The battery and drive unit warranty in my long range TM3 is 8 years/192,000 km.

 

[apu]

You would think the car’s systems could do this on a continuous basis, much like it already does the battery isolation to chassis ground.

Just for a lark I measured the green coolant resistance from inside the reservoir to chassis ground. I couldn't get both probes through the opening so settled on chassis ground at the battery for one end, to save running upstairs again and jury-rigging some wires off the probes. In retrospect it might be a better test as every Kona will have that same conductive "path length."

It settled on 3.8 M-ohm after a minute or 2, noting that the path length is certainly much further than what it takes to short across the battery pack internally.

So, if a blue coolant owner wants to check that same thing it might be enlightening. Or, if we can establish a standard gap across which to measure I don't mind repeating the test.

View attachment 14709

I might have another way to look at this. I have a commercial TDS (total dissolved solute) which effectively measures solutes in a solution(parts per million) through electrical conductivity measurement. A solution with a relatively high TDS will have a low resistivity and a high conductivity. I measured a sample of reverse osmosed water at 35 ppm, the Blue EV fluid measured 42 ppm and conventional Green antifreeze diluted to 50% with distilled water measured 664 pm. So it seems the blue coolant has virtually the same low conductivity that relatively pure water does but clearly has the the benefit of improved cooling/heating, antifreeze qualities and corrosion mitigation. I am actually surprised to see how relatively high the electrically conductivity of conventional antifreeze is compared to just clean water. Although it seems like chemical black magic to me I am sold on its virtues. This fancy engineered fluid may very well be worth the premium. I just need to find a cheaper source.