evse recommendations?

[fasttr]

I have a Juicebox Level 2 at home but I need to get my folks set up with one as well as Level 1 is so slow…thank goodness I’m here visiting for a few days so I’ve got time.

You can get a 16 Amp charger that will use an existing dryer plug. I have one that I used until my Chargepoint arrived. It uses a 14-50P but I bought adapters for both 3 and 4 wire dryer plugs. Usually a dryer is close enough to a garage that you can figure out how to unplug the dryer and plug it in. (Or I’ve seen switches that allow you to share.) The EVSE and the adapters were about $250 total. I keep them in the boot, just in case. 8+ hours for a full charge but definitiely better than level 1.

 

[TittaPDX]

You can get a 16 Amp charger that will use an existing dryer plug. I have one that I used until my Chargepoint arrived. It uses a 14-50P but I bought adapters for both 3 and 4 wire dryer plugs. Usually a dryer is close enough to a garage that you can figure out how to unplug the dryer and plug it in. (Or I’ve seen switches that allow you to share.) The EVSE and the adapters were about $250 total. I keep them in the boot, just in case. 8+ hours for a full charge but definitiely better than level 1.

Definitely a great option. Unfortunately, my parents have a stand-alone garage rather far from their laundry facilities. However, bf is a former electrician who will do the wiring to get it set up for a Level 2 charger. They have a bed & breakfast that gets the occasional EV so will be well worth it (although I’d argue that it’s well worth it just for their (self-appointed) favorite daughter).

 

[Sully151]

Hi,

So, the MINI will be the first of two EV's we will be getting in the next year or so. It will also be our first. The MINI should be here in November, so I am looking into chargers.

I am kinda thinking the Grizzl-E for the MINI. I like that it is portable if we are traveling to an Air BnB or something.

Am I supposed to get the NEMA 14-50? I live in California.
Is there a reason to get the smart version?
Can't I schedule the charging through the MINI itself?
We have an existing 240 plug for our dryer, but we do not use it since our dryer is gas. Can I just get it moved and then use those breakers to charge the MINI? I will probably need to add a panel when the other EV comes because we need to be able to charge both over night so they are ready fr work in the morning.

 

[F14Scott]

For the MINI alone, ANY 240VAC outlet will sufficiently charge it from zero to full, overnight. Even a 20 Amp circuit will deliver 16 Amps continuously (3.8kW), which will fill our little 30kW battery in 8 hours.

For two EVs and a need to charge both from low to full, daily, I'd recommend at least a 40 Amp circuit. For my two EVs (SE and a Tesla M3), I overbuilt with a 60Amp breaker (sharing two Tesla wall connectors in parallel that talk to each other via a communication cable) and can bring both cars to full in about 8 hours.

You don't need smart connectors; the cars can handle fairly complex charging variations and timing on their own. If you are heavily data interested, the extra expense might be worth it. When I first got EVs, all that info was fascinating, but a couple of years in, I just plug in and forget it.

For your case, I would recommend leaving the dryer outlet as is and using that circuit and outlet to charge your MINI. When the new car comes, pay an electrician to install a second circuit of 30 to 60 Amps for the other, bigger car.

 

[Denise C]

hi all! My chargepoint charger arrived in the mail even though my vehicle is not even in production! the standalone garage has a sub panel that has a 50amp main breaker. we are thinking to just get a 40amp breaker for the charger and plug the charger to it (NEMA 14-50). that sounds about right ? thanks!

 

[fasttr]

Assuming your Main breaker and wiring is compatible, go for the 60A breaker to support 48A charging. Will make the installation worth more at resale or if you ever get a future EV that could use more power. Be aware though that a 50A breaker drawing 40A is the highest you can go with a plug. Above that requires direct wiring to the EVSE.

 

[F14Scott]

hi all! My chargepoint charger arrived in the mail even though my vehicle is not even in production! the standalone garage has a sub panel that has a 50amp main breaker. we are thinking to just get a 40amp breaker for the charger and plug the charger to it (NEMA 14-50). that sounds about right ? thanks!

Yep; that will work fine. You'll set your connector for 32 Amps continuous, which is exactly the max draw of your SE. Just be sure to label the 40 Amp 14-50 as "40 Amp," so some future owner doesn't try to plug a 50 Amp thing into it. Code allows for this on a 14-50, since there is no such thing as a NEMA 40 Amp outlet.

 

[Denise C]

Yep; that will work fine. You'll set your connector for 32 Amps continuous, which is exactly the max draw of your SE. Just be sure to label the 40 Amp 14-50 as "40 Amp," so some future owner doesn't try to plug a 50 Amp thing into it. Code allows for this on a 14-50, since there is no such thing as a NEMA 40 Amp outlet.

Thank you for confirming. This will work for now for the SE.


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs

 

[Denise C]

Assuming your Main breaker and wiring is compatible, go for the 60A breaker to support 48A charging. Will make the installation worth more at resale or if you ever get a future EV that could use more power. Be aware though that a 50A breaker drawing 40A is the highest you can go with a plug. Above that requires direct wiring to the EVSE.

Thanks. Since it only has 50a right now. Going to keep it simple since mini SE draws 32a today.


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs

 

[F14Scott]

Really, and I'll include myself in this criticism, I think most people overestimate and overbuild their EV power supplies.

Our Tesla has a 75kW battery. A tiny 20A/240V circuit charging at 3.8kW would fill it from 10% to 80% (a very unusual, very big day of commuting, about 200 miles) in under 14 hours (a typical overnight timeframe).

Sure, there might be rare circumstances that require big home power:
1. Coming home Friday afternoon after a lengthy commute and wanting to turn around after a couple hours to go on a road trip.
2. Coming home really late at night, empty, and wanting to be full first thing in the morning.

But, both of these could be mitigated by a 30 minute stop at a DC charger, for $10 or so.

I guess it's like bedrooms and car seating, we like to buy for the worst case scenarios, even if it means paying a lot more than practicality would demand.

 

[Puppethead]

Really, and I'll include myself in this criticism, I think most people overestimate and overbuild their EV power supplies.

I agree with this, but my attitude is if you're going to pay for electrical work you should size up as big as seems reasonable since paying for the work once is better than needing someone to come back for an upgrade. It doesn't hurt to put in a bigger circuit (breaker and wiring), since your car will never draw more than it needs and you can control the draw with the EVSE. But if you can take advantage of what you already have go for it. Any Level 2 charging is going to be far and away faster than Level 1.

 

[ghost]

We're charging off our unused 240 V dryer outlet. The included charger that came w my wife's Tesla model 3 (along with the adapter to fit the outlet) adds 25 mi per hour, compared to 5 mi/hr when it's plugged into the 110 outlet.

Eventually, we'll add another 240 outlet if we're fighting over a full charge overnight. Hasn't been a problem bc we don't drive over 60 mi in a day. One of us ends up w the 110 overnight, but we can't maximize the time during super off peak hours, when electricity is cheapest.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Really, and I'll include myself in this criticism, I think most people overestimate and overbuild their EV power supplies.

I agree. I installed a 15A/240V (3.6kW) EVSE when I drove a 73-mile Leaf. It provided the max the Leaf could take, recharging the car in under 8 hours from empty to full. But even with only 73 miles of range, I rarely drained it to empty. Now that I have a Bolt, I only need to use the charger once or twice a week. With the exceptions you noted, and the local CCS chargers have really started to spring up. This works fine because the SE only needs to charge every 2-3 days, so I simply alternate cars.

I ended up installing a second EVSE simply for convenience. Now I have one in the garage and one in the driveway. I often go for a couple of days without plugging either car in. This despite putting over 3k miles/ month on the two cars (combined).

 

[kicksology]

+1 to the ChargePoint EVSE recommendations that have been made already.

I'm by no means handy, yet I was able to get the ChargePoint Home Flex installed in about 45 minutes. The instructions are really well written, and I love that they include the necessary drill bit, driver and screws in the box. The fact that everything was included was a factor in my decision to go with the ChargePoint—one, for the simple convenience, but also because, to me, it suggests a high-degree of focus on the needs of the end-user. Also big factors were the nicely integrated holster and cord management, which I think will be big pluses in day-to-day use.

I had originally planned to go with the Siemens EVSE posted by @GDOG back in August and, as a consequence, had a NEMA 6-50 outlet installed when we had our home remodeled almost three years ago now. If I were getting an outlet installed today, with what I've learned over the past few months (mostly from this forum!), I'd go with a NEMA 14-50 at 60 amps for the flexibility and future-proofing. Speaking of flexibility, I think I'd still go for an outlet rather than a hard-wired installation to give me the option to more easily replace the EVSE in the future. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Oh, and in case anyone's interested, if I'm remembering correctly, ChargePoint indicated that it might take as long as eight weeks for my Home Flex to arrive. But, in fact, it arrived in about five weeks, with a big chunk of that taken up by FedEx—the box was sitting at my local FedEx distribution center for 8 days! I would have gone and picked it up myself, but, according to FedEx, it hadn't been unloaded from the trailer it had arrived in. Man, they are an absolute mess!

Now I just have to wait for two to three months for my Cooper SE to arrive.

BTW, has anyone done an analysis of the vampire charge drawn by the various consumer EVSEs? I'd just be curious to know how much energy they pull while they're not actually charging a car.

 

[ColdCase]

As an example, the Grizzl-E was an easy, effortless, install for me. Everything was included. I think most all the name brands are. I mean mount them to a wall, plug them in, what could go wrong? I didn't even have to use a drill or bit, although a power screw driver for the two mounting screws came in handy . Hardwire or running a cable and installing an outlet is where the work is, I think.

Functionally each has one advantage or another, some offer more value, some more style, some are reliable, some are robust, some have a better holder (I just use a simple garden hose holder). Some are suited for indoor, some outdoor, a few can be submerged, a few you can park a truck on without damage. Warrantees vary from 1 to 5 years more or less. Some are UL tested some not. Some are portable some not. Some are more adaptable than others. A few are OCPP compliant, most not or lock you into a infrastructure.

They all seem to charge the SE. I'm glad you found one that best suits you, you like, and are happy with.

Some local electrical codes require hard wiring.

 

[kicksology]

On your point about some local codes requiring hard wiring, I noticed that our local electricity provider used to offer a $500 rebate against the purchase of any qualified "demand-response"-enabled EVSE, but, as of earlier this year, they've added a stipulation that the EVSE must be hard-wired. Anyone have an idea as to why they would have added this requirement for hardwiring? Is it just to make it less likely that you'd swap out a demand-response-enabled EVSE for a non-connected charger? Or is there some efficiency benefit associated with a hard-wired install vs. a plug?

 

[F14Scott]

+1 to the ChargePoint EVSE recommendations that have been made already.

I'm by no means handy, yet I was able to get the ChargePoint Home Flex installed in about 45 minutes. The instructions are really well written, and I love that they include the necessary drill bit, driver and screws in the box. The fact that everything was included was a factor in my decision to go with the ChargePoint—one, for the simple convenience, but also because, to me, it suggests a high-degree of focus on the needs of the end-user. Also big factors were the nicely integrated holster and cord management, which I think will be big pluses in day-to-day use.

I had originally planned to go with the Siemens EVSE posted by @GDOG back in August and, as a consequence, had a NEMA 6-50 outlet installed when we had our home remodeled almost three years ago now. If I were getting an outlet installed today, with what I've learned over the past few months (mostly from this forum!), I'd go with a NEMA 14-50 at 60 amps for the flexibility and future-proofing. Speaking of flexibility, I think I'd still go for an outlet rather than a hard-wired installation to give me the option to more easily replace the EVSE in the future. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Oh, and in case anyone's interested, if I'm remembering correctly, ChargePoint indicated that it might take as long as eight weeks for my Home Flex to arrive. But, in fact, it arrived in about five weeks, with a big chunk of that taken up by FedEx—the box was sitting at my local FedEx distribution center for 8 days! I would have gone and picked it up myself, but, according to FedEx, it hadn't been unloaded from the trailer it had arrived in. Man, they are an absolute mess!

Now I just have to wait for two to three months for my Cooper SE to arrive.

BTW, has anyone done an analysis of the vampire charge drawn by the various consumer EVSEs? I'd just be curious to know how much energy they pull while they're not actually charging a car.

Regarding the 14-50:
You can put a 40 Amp breaker on the 14-50 outlet (because there is no such thing as a NEMA 40 Amp outlet; just be sure to label it as 40A so that future owners don't plug in a 50A appliance), but you cannot put a 60A breaker on it. If you did, 50A things could short out and melt, and the breaker would be fine with that and not trip.

So, with an outlet, the most current you can continually pull is 40A (80% of the outlet's breaker's 50A rating). That's probably totally fine for all overnight charging scenarios: you could fill a 115kW battery in 12 hours, at 40A.

But, if you want to max out big car's internal chargers, about 48A continuous seems to be the present nominal input. Teslas pull 48. Porsche 46. Jaguar 46. Audi 46 (or optional 90!). To get that, you need a 60A breaker, which means hardwiring.

Some also profess hardwired is safer, as there are fewer contact points to loosen and heat up. I think, with a high quality outlet and a small number of unplug/plug events, outlets are fine. But, if you have big wires strung to a hardwire spot on your garage wall, screwing them into new EVSE every 5 to 10 years would not be a big deal.

 

[F14Scott]

I don't know the vampire draw specs for EVSE. But, I think the more important "other" consideration for lowest wasted energy is the charging efficiency of the system, which goes up as the charger gets more power. The reason for this is the car's hotel load (computers and battery conditioners), which is a constant few hundred Watts during charging. Thus, if one charges at a weak 1kW, you waste 300W the whole, long time it takes the car to fill up at net 700W. But, if you charge at 11kW, the car fills 10x faster, so your wasted 300W occurs for 1/10 the time.

TLDR: if you're worried about charger/charging wastefulness, buy the biggest EVSE your car can handle.

 

[insightman]

I've never heard of an EVSE being stolen, but it would be less likely to be stolen if it was hardwired. Not a lot harder, but it would take at least a minute. After having installed my 48-Amp ClipperCreek EVSE, I know I could disconnect it in about a minute--after shutting off the breaker--so I see only upsides to hard-wiring.

 

[F14Scott]

I've never heard of an EVSE being stolen, but it would be less likely to be stolen if it was hardwired. Not a lot harder, but it would take at least a minute. After having installed my 48-Amp ClipperCreek EVSE, I know I could disconnect it in about a minute--after shutting off the breaker--so I see only upsides to hard-wiring.

My Tesla wall chargers' covers are held on with Torx bolts, so my thief would need a robust tool kit. Of course, my Craftsman chest is also right in the garage, but it would take a pretty technically proficient burglar to work through that problem...