What is the "final" fix for the battery fire recall?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Telek
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MSimpsonNJ said:
That raises a question (that may be a stupid one): is the 90% limitation only for DC fast charging or does it also include L2 charging on home chargers?
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I'd think that it applies to both. DC fast charging slows down to close to Level 2 speeds towards the end of the charge.
 
Telek said:
New user here, I did try to scan through all the recent posts, but I can't find anything definitive and I'm somewhat surprised that there's no pinned post about this.

I see some people saying less range, some people saying more. Some say lower SoC, some say the same. Some have said slower L2 charging or a pause near the end, some say lower DCFC, others say that's only due to temperature. I understand that the BMS may have amnesia, but it's hard to see what the actual net result is.

Can anyone say exactly what the final fix is for the battery recall?
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Just saw this article today. Looks like they're doing one of the most expensive recalls ever.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34317051/hyundai-kona-electric-recalled-korea/
 
KiwiME said:
There was no qualifier on that directive reported in the news, apparently for S.Korean owners. As with the previous actions for campaign 196 taken early last year, it will take at least a week for our respective country's importers to formulate their position and notify us. In my case it was a phone call about a week later.

I'm still puzzled by this statement which is included in many of the dozens of reports today.
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My background: Electrical Engineer specializing is robotics (especially mobile, autonomous).

I was completely gobsmacked... beyond flabbergasted when I read that LG's response was that although they had supplied the batteries, the problem was that Hyundai "incorrectly implemented the BMS".
W.T.F.
How the hell did someone think it was the right idea for one company to create a battery with 230,400,000 Joules of energy, and then have another company write the management software that is supposed to correctly charge and balance the battery!?!?
That takes "whoops, I misread the datasheet" to a whole new level. The battery should come with a BMS. Period. End of story.
(and, looking at GM, it seems like Hyundai wasn't the only company that "incorrectly" implemented the BMS...)
 
SeanH said:
My background: Electrical Engineer specializing is robotics (especially mobile, autonomous).

I was completely gobsmacked... beyond flabbergasted when I read that LG's response was that although they had supplied the batteries, the problem was that Hyundai "incorrectly implemented the BMS".
W.T.F.
How the hell did someone think it was the right idea for one company to create a battery with 230,400,000 Joules of energy, and then have another company write the management software that is supposed to correctly charge and balance the battery!?!?
That takes "whoops, I misread the datasheet" to a whole new level. The battery should come with a BMS. Period. End of story.
(and, looking at GM, it seems like Hyundai wasn't the only company that "incorrectly" implemented the BMS...)
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One would assume that would have been the whole purpose of the H L Green Power venture and should have been dealt with at that level:
https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...lan-to-compensate-customers.9699/#post-111351
but apparently this was not the case.
A very expensive lesson indeed.
It would make sense Hyundai should not supply/program the BMS for Ionic 5 (E-GMP platform) using the SK and CATL cells exclusively, but work more closely with these companies to co-ordinate a more positive outcome.;)
 
electriceddy said:
One would assume that would have been the whole purpose of the H L Green Power venture and should have been dealt with at that level:
https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...lan-to-compensate-customers.9699/#post-111351
but apparently this was not the case.
A very expensive lesson indeed.
It would make sense Hyundai should not supply/program the BMS for Ionic 5 (E-GMP platform) using the SK and CATL cells exclusively, but work more closely with these companies to co-ordinate a more positive outcome.;)
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One would think that both Hyundai and LG Chem learned an expensive lesson both, in terms of money and a big hit on their reputation.
On a positive note, the last batch of my one time use bolts are at the dealer being used to secure the battery. Based on my past experiences "I am cautiously optimistic" that I can pick the car up today. :)
 
SeanH said:
My background: Electrical Engineer specializing is robotics (especially mobile, autonomous).

I was completely gobsmacked... beyond flabbergasted when I read that LG's response was that although they had supplied the batteries, the problem was that Hyundai "incorrectly implemented the BMS".
W.T.F.
How the hell did someone think it was the right idea for one company to create a battery with 230,400,000 Joules of energy, and then have another company write the management software that is supposed to correctly charge and balance the battery!?!?
That takes "whoops, I misread the datasheet" to a whole new level. The battery should come with a BMS. Period. End of story.
(and, looking at GM, it seems like Hyundai wasn't the only company that "incorrectly" implemented the BMS...)
Click to expand...

If my memory serves me right, GM has 'subcontracted' the design of the entire electric component of the Bolt to LG Chem. They were even called out on it as it is NOT an 'American car' - as GM promoted the Bolt.
 
I'm a bit worried that since they don't truly know the cause of the fires, they're really just guessing and replacing a bunch of batteries while guessing I think is a bad idea. If they replace all the batteries and fires start again, what happens then?
 
I think somewhere they said the battery and the BMS need to be replaced at the same time. HYUNDAI misapplied the charging logic to the battery that cause the battery fail over time.


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
 
Should we assume that individuals who had their HV battery replaced that these batteries and software are correct now or does the software still need debugging and another battery that is yet to be tested and deployed?
 
H L Green Power appears to be just an assembly operation. Mobis most likely designed and build the BMS and there's nothing untoward about that, they design all the major electronics assemblies. The LG Chem E63 cell datasheet, which we have a copy of (linked in the relevant thread), dictates the charging specifications on page 6. Past that it's a matter of completing normal design verification and validation processes.

Clearly there have been errors but we don't have enough information yet to pinpoint who is responsible. Most importantly to us, Hyundai, as the systems integrator and end product manufacturer, appears to be backing their product at significant cost to themselves.

From the Mobis website:
upload_2021-2-26_9-15-32.webp
 
Sorry if it's somewhere in the thread, but what's the cutoff battery manufacture date for the recall?

I had to get recall 196, so I assume I’m subject to this too, but wanted to check anyway since I found my battery label.
 
KiwiME said:
H L Green Power appears to be just an assembly operation. Mobis most likely designed and build the BMS and there's nothing untoward about that, they design all the major electronics assemblies. The LG Chem E63 cell datasheet, which we have a copy of (linked in the relevant thread), dictates the charging specifications on page 6. Past that it's a matter of completing normal design verification and validation processes.

Clearly there have been errors but we don't have enough information yet to pinpoint who is responsible. Most importantly to us, Hyundai, as the systems integrator and end product manufacturer, appears to be backing their product at significant cost to themselves.

From the Mobis website:
View attachment 10860
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All good points! We are getting into fault finding mode here and we clearly not equipped to do that regardless how much specs etc. we dig up.
As for myself, after four months, I got "Sparky" back today. All recalls to date and proper bolts :mad: included.
I drove home with a big smile on my face. :):):):)
 
Lars said:
All good points! We are getting into fault finding mode here and we clearly not equipped to do that regardless how much specs etc. we dig up.
As for myself, after four months, I got "Sparky" back today. All recalls to date and proper bolts :mad: included.
I drove home with a big smile on my face. :):):):)
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Now you will be able to read the label on the new pack and post it please?;)
Edit...unless I missed that somewhere
 
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KiwiME said:
H L Green Power appears to be just an assembly operation. Mobis most likely designed and build the BMS and there's nothing untoward about that, they design all the major electronics assemblies. The LG Chem E63 cell datasheet, which we have a copy of (linked in the relevant thread), dictates the charging specifications on page 6. Past that it's a matter of completing normal design verification and validation processes.

Clearly there have been errors but we don't have enough information yet to pinpoint who is responsible. Most importantly to us, Hyundai, as the systems integrator and end product manufacturer, appears to be backing their product at significant cost to themselves.

From the Mobis website:
View attachment 10860
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I think you nailed it exactly with the verification and validation process, this is likely the primary point where mutual co-ordination between the supplier of the cells, the implementation of the BMS and final assembly manufacturer is most important.
 
electriceddy said:
Now you will be able to read the label on the new pack and post it please?;)
Edit...unless I missed that somewhere
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I already posted it but here it goes. Manufacturing date is 2020-10-07. For reference; my car "was grounded" on 2020-10-23.

HV Battery label-new.webp
 
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