MM 0 1 7 Brake Fluid Change

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aapitten

aapitten

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Hey everyone, I am coming up on three years of ownership and maintenance minder and just told me to do a 0 1 7. Looks like 7 is replace the brake fluid. I understand brake fluid collects water over time, but none of my Toyota's has ever had me replacing it every 3 years. Thoughts?
 
On this subject, has anyone looked at the online Honda Shop Manual to see what is involved in the brake fluid replacement? I suspect that Insightman's Clarity is old enough to be getting this service reminder soon, too.

LeoP
 
I have not personally looked yet but it is on my list (I don't have a copy of the factory service manual though.) I think
@Atkinson
may have a copy?

I'm concerned that bleeding is going to be 'interesting' due to the 'brake force simulator' and all the gadgetry attached to the pedal
 
I believe Honda has a 3 year interval for brake fluid changes on all of their vehicles. Not all of their vehicles use regenerative braking for some/most/quite a bit of their braking.

Some manufacturers recommend testing/inspecting for contamination every 2, 3, 4, 5 years and replace as needed.

My personal choice on this particular matter will be to follow an “as needed” protocol, which will most likely not exceed a 5 year period regardless of the condition of the fluid at that time. Basically, I’ll be pushing the 3 year interval to 5 years.
 
Yeah. it would be interest to see how you can change the fluids the old way by pressing the brake pedal to bleed air out since Clarity's brake pedal doesn't directly connect to the master cylinder. I guess you will need to connect an extraction pump at the bleed valve to drain the fluid and suck out any air.

I think 3 year is a too soon for the amount of braking that is done. I am pretty sure the fluid can last at least another year.
 
megreyhair said:
I think 3 year is a too soon for the amount of braking that is done. I am pretty sure the fluid can last at least another year.
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Since brake fluid is hygroscopic, I believe that the recommended replacement intervals have more to do with this factor (i.e., how much water is absorbed from the air in a given period) than with the amount of braking.

Also, there is a direct mechanical link from the pedal to the master cylinder piston (photo below is looking up past the brake pedal where the master cylinder piston rod comes through the firewall). So, it may be that bleeding can be done somewhat conventionally with power off(?) Though I do see a bleed port on the master cylinder that I am not used to seeing.

IMG_1345.webp

I am interested to hear what the bleeding process entails on this car if any one has specifics.


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gedwin is correct about the fluid. But the brake system is a closed system. The time air will get to it is when you open the reservoir cover and when the fluid was filled at factory. So theoretically, moisture won't get into the fluid.
 
Point taken, but I don't think our system is any more or less sealed than other cars on the road. On these matters, I would tend go with the manufacturer's recommendation, as there should be an engineering basis and testing supporting the recommendation. (Perhaps I give too much credit...)

Not to imply I am perfect in this - on my last car I went more than a decade before bleeding the brakes. (I know, I know....) So, I do not mean to imply that on the first day of year 3 there will suddenly be immediate failure of the fluid. But, like engine oil replacement or whatnot, the manufacturer makes a recommendation and I for one do not feel I know more than them to overrule.
 
I agree that our brake system is no more, or less, sealed than any other car. That said, some manufacturers do not specify a time or mileage parameter for brake fluid change intervals. The guidance is inspect/test periodically and replace as needed.

I also, do not know more than the manufacturer or the engineers, but a hydraulic brake system is a hydraulic brake system and fluid is fluid. In my opinion, an informed decision can be made on the condition of the fluid at any point in time and a determination can be made as to when it becomes necessary to be changed.

On edit: the hygroscopic effects will be different for an owner in Palm Springs compared to an owner in Palm Beach.
 
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I also noticed the pedal goes directly to the brake master - I recall reading somewhere that the bottom 'x percent' of pedal travel will mechanically apply the friction brakes. I can't remember where I saw that but if it is true the traditional bleeding methods may work, just with a bit less travel to leave the bleeder open. I think some masters do need to be 'bench bleed' prior to installation, perhaps that is what that bleeder screw is for? (I'll have to go investigate myself later.)

I do agree that the bleeding is due to moisture and won't really change based on usage. I like to think a garage-kept clarity (where I'm running a dehumidifier in the winter) will see less moisture than one left outside all the time but eventually things will pickup moisture. I can attest our system does seem to be well sealed (And also seems to use the same cap as pretty much every other honda out there.) When I pulled the cap off there was a 'thurp' as it sucked in air due to a vacuum that had formed inside. It appears there is a diaphragm that separates the 'vent' from the 'fluid' thus allowing a little expansion and contraction without actually having an atmosphere vent.

I have a friend who recently got a Motive power bleeder (pressure type that slightly pressurizes the reservoir on the master) and he says it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I found a cap with a couple o-rings that is deigned to temporarily replace the reservoir cap and allow you to hook up a low pressure (5-10) psi air source to do this. (Motive doesn't appear to directly have an adapter for Honda). If I do go with the 3-year interval, this is probably the method I will use.
 
leop said:
On this subject, has anyone looked at the online Honda Shop Manual to see what is involved in the brake fluid replacement? I suspect that Insightman's Clarity is old enough to be getting this service reminder soon, too.

LeoP
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No MM 7 code on our Clarity PHEV yet. Will report when it does.
 
petteyg359 said:
Got my AO17 last week. Yay for 17k mile brake fluid changes... My CR-V didn't need it's brake fluid changed at all in ten years and 100k miles.
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Yeah, last week I was informed our Clarity needs its 11K mile brake fluid change. I imagine it must be half brake fluid/half water after all these years. Next thing you know, the car is going to tell me to change the year-old gasoline in its tiny tank! Maybe it has a Stabil detector and will give me a pass on the gas. Too bad none of the car-maintenance coupons Honda sends me covers brake-fluid replacement.
 
In my opinion, yes it seems that the miles and time passage intersection with modern fluids and the fact that the ICE doesn't run much for most people doesn't seem to be 100% baked into the maintenance schedule
 
JFon101231 said:
In my opinion, yes it seems that the miles and time passage intersection with modern fluids and the fact that the ICE doesn't run much for most people doesn't seem to be 100% baked into the maintenance schedule
Click to expand...

I think you got that backwards and it should be .001% :) They completely ignored it.
 
Item 7 is programmed for three years in the maintenance minder (MM)... strictly counts down the days until Honda scares you into giving them money. This does not correlate at all to the condition of the brake fluid.

The Clarity I drive has 242 days till the vaunted MM informs the consumer it's time for brake fluid exchange. I take the opportunity to test*** multiple vehicles brake fluid for moisture content (MC) at least once a year which is what I use as one determining factor. Much like @Landshark, I fully expect 5 years before any exchange in the Clarity is necessary. I let science have a say.

Common sense dictates where you live and driving conditions and habits etc are determining factors of brake fluid longevity. Ludicrous for these manufacturers to place an arbitrary time on fluid exchange as a one size fits all. There are accurate MC processes out there.

Cost? Ridiculous. I just did a friend's brake fluid...the typical car requires 1 qt or less for a full exchange. A name brand fluid was used at the cost of $15.

I appreciate all you folks but it really burns me when I see folks handing over hard earned money to a dirty business like automobile dealerships n manufacturers for what amounts to a wild *** guess of fluid condition.

I think some folks will be surprised how many dealerships test for moisture content then only replace the fluid in the reservoir and call it good.

Since I have assisted with several Clarity's on maintenance...I will update this thread if/when I do a brake fluid exchange.

* Since I test multiple vehicles at once I test the first with both a strip and electronic tester as a gauge of accuracy for the meter. Confidence in the numbers is key.
 
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Not sure why this is such a big deal. To anyone who doesn’t want to do the fluid change, just clear the code on the maintenance minder and move on. That’s my plan. Clearing the item is a 15 second at-home process.

The code will be back again in 3 years, and we can make another decision on whether it’s worth doing or not at 6 years of age.
 
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