Would you still buy 2020 Clarity Plug In or Something else?

[cyberteen]

Your first car or first new car? My first several cars were used, but if you've got the resources, go for it.

I think that comes down to what sort of vehicle you want.
Do you want Accord-size sedan or an SUV?
In my situation I'll gladly accept the higher efficiency and ride comfort of a sedan at the expense of what an SUV has to offer.

It's also very possible that the RAV4 PHEV will be very expensive, once you've got it opted up to your preferences.

I for some reason like the high-riding position of the SUVs. Otherwise, nothing interests me in particular. Regarding new car/old car purchase, I had a Camry 2005 for few months for my internship and sold it off. Now that I have a full-time job, planning to buy a good car now.

While I could buy a 3-4 year old recently used Honda/Toyota for 16-18k, my interest for future transition to all-electric, ability to claim the federal tax credits and my low driving requirements are what draws me to a PHEV now.

Given that RAV4 prime might be out this summer, I will probably wait a bit for the price. If the base model is similarly priced to that of Clarity's, then I feel the RAV4 might provide more value for money. Let's see.

 

[sarosam]

Thanks for the comments guys. The clarity's ev range definitely suits my current 2 mile (one-way) commute, lol. I already bike to work most of the week.
I am also concerned about Clarity's future, if it gets discontinued, for the parts and repair issues. RAV4 phev coming from a mainstream model maybe more reliable in that case? Just my thoughts. Feel free to share yours.

FYI, Clarity shares main drive train with other mainstream.....same engine as insight, same electric motor as accord hybrid, same eCVT as insight.....and sure Honda shares multiple other parts from accross its line up.

 

[cyberteen]

FYI, Clarity shares main drive train with other mainstream.....same engine as insight, same electric motor as accord hybrid, same eCVT as insight.....and sure Honda shares multiple other parts from accross its line up.

That is kind of relieving. An extended warranty from Honda Care or similar should hep resale value later I guess.

 

[insightman]

FYI, Clarity shares main drive train with other mainstream.....same engine as insight, same electric motor as accord hybrid, same eCVT as insight.....and sure Honda shares multiple other parts from accross its line up.

Actually, the motors in the Clarity PHEV and Accord Hybrid are different. They're both 181-hp motors, but the Clarity PHEV's traction motor incorporates rare-earth elements and the Accord's motor does not. I could be wrong--it's possible Honda has switched the less-expensive Accord motor into the Clarity for the latest model year. In either case, I doubt the traction motor would ever need replacement.

Honda's eCVT isn't an actual part. It is just the way that Honda defines the operation of its 2-motor i-MMD (intelligent Multi-Mode Drive) hybrid system. The i-MMD system has no tapered pulleys and belts like a mechanical CVT. Like a mechanical CVT, Honda's iMMD system spins the engine at whatever speed the car deems appropriate for the load at any given time (except when the Engine Drive clutch is closed) . When the Engine Drive clutch is closed, the engine runs at a speed that is always proportional to the road speed, like 6th gear in a non-CVT 6-speed transmission.

Honda brought only 14,000 gen-1 Insights to the US between 2000 and 2006. In the last few years, Honda has stopped stocking some parts for that Insight (eg. headlight assemblies, shift-linkage cables, color-impregnated bumpers) and other parts, such as catalytic converters and HV batteries, are very expensive. However, there are 3rd-party alternatives for catalytic converters and HV batteries even though this was such a limited-production car.

The question is: How long do you intend to keep your next car? You can probably count on parts being available for at least 10 years, but Clarity parts are already expensive and the prices certainly won't be decreasing. $400 for the front "H" logo? Whew! $1,500 for a new infotainment system head unit? Wowee! Prices like those make insurance companies more likely to total a Clarity after an accident even when there isn't a lot of damage.

 

[Landshark]

Given that RAV4 prime might be out this summer, I will probably wait a bit for the price. If the base model is similarly priced to that of Clarity's, then I feel the RAV4 might provide more value for money.

Both the Clarity and the RAV4 will plummet in value immediately after signing the paperwork. As will any new car. Buying a new car is a rather poor decision from a purely financial standpoint. Trying to guess which car will be worth $500 more in 3-5 years is a complete waste of time. You will be ahead thousands of dollars, perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars if you never buy a new car in your lifetime.

You’re driving 4 miles a day. You won’t use a gallon of gas in a week. Buy a 3-5 year old Civic and learn to live with the shame of it all for a few years until your dream BEV hits the showroom floor.

The only reason we bought a new Clarity was because Honda offered $5K off, we were able to fully utilize the $7500 federal credit and Oregon capped off the deal with a $2500 rebate. It was 40% off MSRP and we plan to keep it at least 10-12 years. My last car was bought at 4 years of age and I drove it for 11 years. I’d still be driving it had we not stumbled across the deal on the Honda.

I know your young. I’m 18 months from a comfortable retirement and buying new cars was not a part of my financial planning. Best of luck.

 

[ab13]

I for some reason like the high-riding position of the SUVs. Otherwise, nothing interests me in particular. Regarding new car/old car purchase, I had a Camry 2005 for few months for my internship and sold it off. Now that I have a full-time job, planning to buy a good car now.

While I could buy a 3-4 year old recently used Honda/Toyota for 16-18k, my interest for future transition to all-electric, ability to claim the federal tax credits and my low driving requirements are what draws me to a PHEV now.

Given that RAV4 prime might be out this summer, I will probably wait a bit for the price. If the base model is similarly priced to that of Clarity's, then I feel the RAV4 might provide more value for money. Let's see.

I would expect the Rav4 Prime to sell at about MSRP, since it will be popular. They are only selling "sport" versions, so I wonder how stiff the suspension will be.

 

[insightman]

I would expect the Rav4 Prime to sell at about MSRP, since it will be popular. They are only selling "sport" versions, so I wonder how stiff the suspension will be.

Toyota will need to stiffen the suspension to compensate for the additional weight of the Prime's larger battery. Perhaps they chose the "Sport" classification to prepare drivers for that additional stiffness.

 

[Atkinson]

Actually, the motors in the Clarity PHEV and Accord Hybrid are different. They're both 181-hp motors, but the Clarity PHEV's traction motor incorporates rare-earth elements and the Accord's motor does not. I could be wrong--it's possible Honda has switched the less-expensive Accord motor into the Clarity for the latest model year. In either case, I doubt the traction motor would ever need replacement.

Honda's eCVT isn't an actual part. It is just the way that Honda defines the operation of its 2-motor i-MMD (intelligent Multi-Mode Drive) hybrid system. The i-MMD system has no tapered pulleys and belts like a mechanical CVT. Like a mechanical CVT, Honda's iMMD system spins the engine at whatever speed the car deems appropriate for the load at any given time (except when the Engine Drive clutch is closed) . When the Engine Drive clutch is closed, the engine runs at a speed that is always proportional to the road speed, like 6th gear in a non-CVT 6-speed transmission.

Honda brought only 14,000 gen-1 Insights to the US between 2000 and 2006. In the last few years, Honda has stopped stocking some parts for that Insight (eg. headlight assemblies, shift-linkage cables, color-impregnated bumpers) and other parts, such as catalytic converters and HV batteries, are very expensive. However, there are 3rd-party alternatives for catalytic converters and HV batteries even though this was such a limited-production car.

The question is: How long do you intend to keep your next car? You can probably count on parts being available for at least 10 years, but Clarity parts are already expensive and the prices certainly won't be decreasing. $400 for the front "H" logo? Whew! $1,500 for a new infotainment system head unit? Wowee! Prices like those make insurance companies more likely to total a Clarity after an accident even when there isn't a lot of damage.

The Clarity uses the 2nd gen drivetrain from the previous Accord Hybrid, so both had rare earth magnets.
The latest Accord Hybrid uses the 3rd gen drivetrain (no rare earth magnets).
The rare earth magnets are in a technical sense better, albeit with potentially unethical sourcing.

 

[Landshark]

Toyota will need to stiffen the suspension to compensate for the additional weight of the Prime's larger battery. Perhaps they chose the "Sport" classification to prepare drivers for that additional stiffness.

Have you ever been in a Bentley? My buddy has one. It must weigh 3 tons. Smooth as butter, handles quite well. Certainly not a stiff suspension. Same goes for our 5500lb Jeep Grand Cherokee, which offers a very smooth ride. A heavier vehicle doesn’t necessarily mean it needs to have a “stiffer” suspension.

“Sport” sells. So do simple things like letters. S, T, R, X, F, G. Combining them really increases the excitement level. ST, SS, GT, RX. Let’s try three. GTX, GTO, BRZ, GTR, GSXR. Oops. I could barely type that last one with all this adrenaline and testosterone building up in my body.

Gotta stop now.

 

[craze1cars]

Rav4 prime will have a claimed 302 HP. It'll embarrass the Clarity in a race which only has a claimed 212 exaggerated HP, which is actually 181 if you don't use "modern math" LOL. And most of us definitely buy these PHEV's to race, we all know that to be a fact.

That 302 HP has gotta count for something toward the "sport" designation. I'm willing to bet it'll be a very nice SUV, if that's what someone wants.

 

[interestedinEV]

“Sport” sells. So do simple things like letters. S, T, R, X, F, G. Combining them really increases the excitement level. ST, SS, GT, RX. Let’s try three. GTX, GTO, BRZ, GTR, GSXR. Oops. I could barely type that last one with all this adrenaline and testosterone building up in my body.

And more the letters after the name, larger the increase in price when compared to the base model or models with lesser letters

 

[HagerHedgie]

I for some reason like the high-riding position of the SUVs. Otherwise, nothing interests me in particular. Regarding new car/old car purchase, I had a Camry 2005 for few months for my internship and sold it off. Now that I have a full-time job, planning to buy a good car now.

While I could buy a 3-4 year old recently used Honda/Toyota for 16-18k, my interest for future transition to all-electric, ability to claim the federal tax credits and my low driving requirements are what draws me to a PHEV now.

Given that RAV4 prime might be out this summer, I will probably wait a bit for the price. If the base model is similarly priced to that of Clarity's, then I feel the RAV4 might provide more value for money. Let's see.

If you have the money get a Tesla. Clarity is good but very quirky. Very Noisy with sprited driving and the back half of the car look weird. Seats are terrible. Infotainment is even worse.
Very smooth and quiet if you drive conservatively.
Model 3 is beautiful. And OTA updates!!!Even the SR+ is plenty of car.
The best thing about the clarity, by far is the tax credit. For me I think if it like training wheels for a BEV. 6 months into ownership I was ready for a Tesla, however, a year later my bank account still needs to catch up.


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs

 

[cyberteen]

Both the Clarity and the RAV4 will plummet in value immediately after signing the paperwork. As will any new car. Buying a new car is a rather poor decision from a purely financial standpoint. Trying to guess which car will be worth $500 more in 3-5 years is a complete waste of time. You will be ahead thousands of dollars, perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars if you never buy a new car in your lifetime.

You’re driving 4 miles a day. You won’t use a gallon of gas in a week. Buy a 3-5-year-old Civic and learn to live with the shame of it all for a few years until your dream BEV hits the showroom floor.

The only reason we bought a new Clarity was because Honda offered $5K off, we were able to fully utilize the $7500 federal credit and Oregon capped off the deal with a $2500 rebate. It was 40% off MSRP and we plan to keep it at least 10-12 years. My last car was bought at 4 years of age and I drove it for 11 years. I’d still be driving it had we not stumbled across the deal on the Honda.

I know your young. I’m 18 months from a comfortable retirement and buying new cars was not a part of my financial planning. Best of luck.

I did consider buying a slightly used Japanese sedan, but ultimately that comes to 18-19k OTD and the new Clarity comes 23-24k OTD with full tax credits claimed. Doesn't it seem a better option to buy a Clarity or similar vehicle even if its new?

 

[fotomoto]

The RAV4 specs seems great

And the price?

Bought my 18 at the end of the year with discounts plus incentives which put the price around $20k+ttl. No other plug-in or even most hybrids can match this especially when you compare features. The rav4p will be no where near that but I'm very interested in it too as we always prefer a large hatch. One big negative about a hatch design though that is very hard to fight is noise and the boomy nature of large box interior.

Sedans also tend to ride so much better over taller ride height designs; such a planted feel....

 

[Robert_Alabama]

For me, for now, the Clarity is by far the best fit on the market. I have driven it about 63% electric 37% gasoline. It is so nice to be able to take a long trip in it and not have to worry at all about recharging unless it is convenient. If I don't take a road trip, I just don't burn any gasoline. In 18 months, I've burned 125 gallons of gasoline in 14600 miles total, so about 5400 gasoline miles-pretty much all on highway trips. I'm fortunate to be able to get essentially all my electrical charging for free (I charge at work, so I rarely charge the car at home - I have a pretty short commute). Maintenance has literally been zero since the dealership makes this complimentary if you bought the car from them. So far it has been just my wife and myself when traveling and the luggage space is pretty incredible with the rear seats down. We have none of the complaints about the comfort of the Touring front seats. We've driven it as much as 550 miles in a day and found it comfortable. I absolutely love this car so far. If I totaled it tomorrow, I'd just be in the market for another one to replace it.

 

[Landshark]

I did consider buying a slightly used Japanese sedan, but ultimately that comes to 18-19k OTD and the new Clarity comes 23-24k OTD with full tax credits claimed. Doesn't it seem a better option to buy a Clarity or similar vehicle even if its new?

In my experience, it is not a better option, if money is a consideration, to spend $5K more on a new car than a used one. Best case you’re out an additional $5K.

You also won’t get OTD with a new Clarity for $23-24K. The potential benefit of the $7500 Federal tax credit will not be realized until you file your 2020 tax returns next year. And you may have to wait a few months to receive any state or local rebates. Expect to pony up ~$30K or more for the new car.

It’s anyone’s guess as to which vehicle, new or used, will hold more of its original (date of purchase) value. I’d put my money on the used one.

Now if you believe that purchasing a new car will satisfy your emotions, then it may be a better decision. Those types of decisions tend to come at a higher price.

 

[Robert_Alabama]

Pros for spending the $5k and buying the Clarity... Warranty, reduced maintenance as compared to normal gasoline vehicles (I've driven PHEVs for 8 years now and never done anything to them but tires and oil changes), Gasoline savings from burning electricity - varies based on how much free charging you can get and the electric rates versus local gasoline prices, but it is usually a positive thing for most of us, access to HOV lanes in most states, and lastly, even if you don't buy into all the CO2 benefit, contributing to less smog and ozone problems locally if you live in an urban area. And as others have said here, you don't have to wait to get the $7500 back next year when you get the taxes. You can reduce your withholding rate so that you pay in $7500 less taxes over the rest of this year. Then next year, just increase the withholding rate back to its original level so that you don't owe taxes for the 2021 calendar year when you file in 2022.

 

[Atkinson]

Withholding and tax liability can get conflated.
An individual's tax liability is unrelated to withholding or the amount owed or refunded at the end of the year.
To increase tax liability, you would have to increase taxable income.
Either make more money or convert a traditional IRA to Roth.

 

[Landshark]

And as others have said here, you don't have to wait to get the $7500 back next year when you get the taxes. You can reduce your withholding rate so that you pay in $7500 less taxes over the rest of this year. Then next year, just increase the withholding rate back to its original level so that you don't owe taxes for the 2021 calendar year when you file in 2022.

Sure, you can change your W-4 deductions. That won’t change the OTD price.

Let’s say someone gets out the door for $31,500 and makes a down payment of $7500 in anticipation of getting an additional $200/wk in each paycheck by way of a modified W-4. After 38 weeks of diligently depositing that $200 back into a savings account the $7500, plus $100 has been recovered. Meanwhile there are 50 months remaining on a 5 year loan of $24,000 and its time to modify the W-4 again which will now reduce weekly net income by $200. Remember, $31,500 had to come from somewhere before the documents were signed.

A 2-3 year old Honda, Toyota, Subaru, etc is unlikely to need more than oil changes for the next few years, particularly for an owner that drives 4 miles a day. Registration and insurance are likely to be higher on a new car. And a new car that sold for $31,500 (net $24K) will lose more value over the next few years than a 2-3 year old car that sold for $19K.

Buying a new car, at any price, would be a poor financial decision for anyone who has a commute of a few miles and intends to purchase a BEV in the near future.

 

[Robert_Alabama]

@Landshark , as to your reply to me, I was simply replying to your statement: "The potential benefit of the $7500 Federal tax credit will not be realized until you file your 2020 tax returns next year."