Why I sold my Clarity after a year.

[PHEV Newbie]

So let me clarify what happened. I was climbing a hill and pressed the accelerator to maintain my speed (around 65). The car revved noticeably, but the speed did not increase. I pressed down a bit harder and heard higher revving and again no increased power, at which time I backed off the accelerator and switched to EV mode.

Thanks for your quick reply and clarification. Yes, that sounds very similar. In another thread ("Angry bees" post, I think), another poster said that the angry bees is quite normal and not to worry even if the car screams to provide the power you need. He/she is probably correct but I really find it disconcerting even though I know the computer would never allow the engine to rev into the red line. That's why I always keep a major charge when driving HV mode so peak power is always available. To me, it makes sense. The traction battery alone can provide enough juice for 120 hp from the motor. To get 181 hp, you need both working together. What is less clear is how much juice the 103 hp 1.5 litre ICE can provide. Given that the Honda Accord hybrid (uses same i-MMD system) has a bigger 2 liter engine for a 600 lb lighter car, there is no doubt that the Clarity needs its battery for peak performance in HV mode. Without power from the battery, you're relying on a tiny, low hp ICE to power a 2 ton car. That might be fine cruising on the flats but you could be in trouble on mountain grades or when you need extra power to pass.

BTW, I now go to Sport mode whenever I'm in HV on highways. The ICE is already running so I find the more spirited behavior worth the small hit in MPG. On other hand, I stay in Econ mode in EV drive to keep the ICE from firing on.

 

[Gearhead]

I had a surprising loss of power once but I was trying out HV Charge mode at the time. Started out climbing a steep hill on a surface street and at around 20 mph the accelerator hardly made any oomph. Switched to EV and didn't try HV Charge since. Different scenario but I'll see if it's reproduceable next time I'm on the hill (without anyone behind me).

 

[MGT]

I experienced low battery and weak ICE power the night I drove our Clarity home from the dealership. We leased ours from a dealer approximately 30 miles away. Getting home involved about 20 miles by freeway and the rest surface street.

The thing is, we live at the top of a hill. To get home, i had to drive up a gradual hill, descend about the same distance, then drive up our fairly steep hill. It’s about a 500 foot altitude gain. The Clarity could barely get up our steep hill, going about 15mph, and making a terrible loud sound. My husband was following in our Civic but fortunately he didn’t hear it.

This was almost a month ago, in my total ignorance phase. Now I know I have to conserve battery to get up our hill.

 

[LAF]

Thanks for your quick reply and clarification. Yes, that sounds very similar. In another thread ("Angry bees" post, I think), another poster said that the angry bees is quite normal and not to worry even if the car screams to provide the power you need. He/she is probably correct but I really find it disconcerting even though I know the computer would never allow the engine to rev into the red line. That's why I always keep a major charge when driving HV mode so peak power is always available. To me, it makes sense. The traction battery alone can provide enough juice for 120 hp from the motor. To get 181 hp, you need both working together. What is less clear is how much juice the 103 hp 1.5 litre ICE can provide. Given that the Honda Accord hybrid (uses same i-MMD system) has a bigger 2 liter engine for a 600 lb lighter car, there is no doubt that the Clarity needs its battery for peak performance in HV mode. Without power from the battery, you're relying on a tiny, low hp ICE to power a 2 ton car. That might be fine cruising on the flats but you could be in trouble on mountain grades or when you need extra power to pass.

BTW, I now go to Sport mode whenever I'm in HV on highways. The ICE is already running so I find the more spirited behavior worth the small hit in MPG. On other hand, I stay in Econ mode in EV drive to keep the ICE from firing on.

Interestingly, I do the opposite. I drive in sport mode around town where it makes a huge difference in response fro 0-30 mph. I never engage the ICE because I am not ever going faster than 30 mph. I have not seen major drop in EV miles. In contrast, unless I am about to enter a highway or pass someone I don't think sport on the highway makes much difference.

 

[ab13]

Sorry it didn't work out for you. This drive train is really an economy drive train, they didn't size it for power. They really should have used the 2.0 or 2.4 liter somehow.

 

[KentuckyKen]

Interestingly, I do the opposite. I drive in sport mode around town where it makes a huge difference in response fro 0-30 mph. I never engage the ICE because I am not ever going faster than 30 mph. I have not seen major drop in EV miles. In contrast, unless I am about to enter a highway or pass someone I don't think sport on the highway makes much difference.

Actually Sport doesn’t give you any more EV acceleration than Econ. I think it just seems that way because you don’t have to press the pedal down as much. All Sport does is remap the pedal response and bring up the ICE activation ahead of the detent or click. So it’s not surprising that with the same rate of acceleration, you don’t see any difference in efficiency between Sport and Econ in EV when not calling on the ICE.

 

[Sandroad]

So let me clarify what happened. I was climbing a hill and pressed the accelerator to maintain my speed (around 65). The car revved noticeably, but the speed did not increase. I pressed down a bit harder and heard higher revving and again no increased power, at which time I backed off the accelerator and switched to EV mode.

I'm with you on the decision to sell. My wife and I would do the same if the dealer was unable to do something specific to fix it. Safety is number 1.

For the sake of others, take the @MrFixit suggestion to file a complaint. It's a very simple form and it's really the only way to get manufacturers to address anything related to safety that does not throw a diagnostic code. Here is the site:

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

 

[insightman]

I drive in sport mode around town where it makes a huge difference in response fro 0-30 mph. I never engage the ICE because I am not ever going faster than 30 mph.

It's not your speed that activates the ICE, but the amount of power you use for acceleration. Without ECON Mode's accelerator pedal click to separate EV from ICE start-up, it's very easy to get rambunctious in SPORT Mode and start the ICE before you reach 30 mph. You never engage the ICE because you've trained your right ankle some restraint.

A year ago, I was disappointed that Honda didn't engineer the accelerator click so that it separated EV from ICE start-up in all 3 modes (ECON, NORMAL, and SPORT). Now I've decided that Honda should have engineered the accelerator click to go away in NORMAL and SPORT Modes because people who choose those modes don't want to feel a click (especially a meaningless click) as they accelerate their Clarity. They just want to GO.

 

[Gearhead]

I'm with you on the decision to sell. My wife and I would do the same if the dealer was unable to do something specific to fix it. Safety is number 1.

For the sake of others, take the @MrFixit suggestion to file a complaint. It's a very simple form and it's really the only way to get manufacturers to address anything related to safety that does not throw a diagnostic code. Here is the site:

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

I registered a complaint. Very easy and quick. This was an experience I wouldn't want to repeat with a semi bearing down on me. Suggest anyone experiencing loss of power register.

 

[Geor99]

I registered a complaint. Very easy and quick. This was an experience I wouldn't want to repeat with a semi bearing down on me. Suggest anyone experiencing loss of power register.

I really like my Clarity here in Southern California. I used to live at over 8,000' elevation in Colorado. It would be a terrible car in the cold and driving up inclines . Youd drain the battery in a flash.

It's really a mild climate, nothing taller than hills, commuter car. And it's damn good for that. Climbing mountains with the heater on full blast- no way. IMHO.

 

[JulianClarity]

My dissatisfaction started on the day I drove the car off the lot when I heard the engine revving for the first time. I was totally enamored with the electric drive and my driving patterns allowed me to drive almost exclusively in EV mode, so I was able to ignore this. There were minor issues and some tech omissions which I was able to compensate for and I continued to love my Clarity. Then my driving patterns changed. I started regularly driving beyond the EV range and the love affair quickly went south.

For the past few months, I have had to mentally calculate just how far I could drive before putting the car in HV mode in order to avoid getting too close to full battery discharge. Even with loads of charge, the car revved and was no longer fun to drive, but I continued to analyze and monitor it and tried to maintain a positive attitude. And then, one cold night when I was climbing a hill with the heater on and the engine revving (with adequate battery charge), the car lost power. I have read the other forum members' experiences, but nothing compares to having it happen in person. I was thankfully able to regain power by turning off the heater and putting the car in EV mode. I got home ok and it never happened again, but I never trusted the car not to do it again, either.

So, thanks to all of you for the support and advice, without which I probably would not have lasted as long as I have. I am not sorry that I bought the car, as I have learned so much this past year, but it will be awhile before I venture back into the world of EVs.

Feeling sorry to hear this. I would have sold the car too if I were you.

 

[Carro con enchufe]

I had a surprising loss of power once but I was trying out HV Charge mode at the time. Started out climbing a steep hill on a surface street and at around 20 mph the accelerator hardly made any oomph. Switched to EV and didn't try HV Charge since. Different scenario but I'll see if it's reproduceable next time I'm on the hill (without anyone behind me).

You were using HV charge in a way that’s not recommended. The owners manual indicates that HV charge is best used at highway speeds, and from use, HV Charge is not recommended for any significant uphill. Your outcome is not surprising, and is user error, not a defect with the car.

 

[Carro con enchufe]

It's not your speed that activates the ICE, but the amount of power you use for acceleration. Without ECON Mode's accelerator pedal click to separate EV from ICE start-up, it's very easy to get rambunctious in SPORT Mode and start the ICE before you reach 30 mph. You never engage the ICE because you've trained your right ankle some restraint.

A year ago, I was disappointed that Honda didn't engineer the accelerator click so that it separated EV from ICE start-up in all 3 modes (ECON, NORMAL, and SPORT). Now I've decided that Honda should have engineered the accelerator click to go away in NORMAL and SPORT Modes because people who choose those modes don't want to feel a click (especially a meaningless click) as they accelerate their Clarity. They just want to GO.

Hey insightman, I drive in Sport mode all the time, and when I floor it, it goes to max power without passing the click. So I think it already behaves as you describe it should. Do you use Sport mode at all?

 

[Charles Ross]

We've owned our Clarity for @ six months now and i have to say we are happy with the car. 6,000 miles on the odometer, one, long 4,000 mile trip, total trip 'A' mpg of 69.2. After your 40 miles or so on the battery, the engine clicks in. You can hear it but it's not ridiculously loud. i was curious how it would do going up the grapevine in Sou Cal. It's about 4-5 miles up a fairly steep hill and the car did just fine. So far, so good

 

[insightman]

Hey insightman, I drive in Sport mode all the time, and when I floor it, it goes to max power without passing the click. So I think it already behaves as you describe it should. Do you use Sport mode at all?

No, I never use SPORT Mode because I believe it leads to other questionable habits like smoking and drinking. This chart from the Owners Manual shows why I believe accelerator must be floored to get max power, but I'll admit you may be right and the chart might be wrong. If, indeed, you feel no additional acceleration in SPORT Mode after the click, then the chart is wrong.

 

[KentuckyKen]

Obi Wan: “Use the chart Luke, use the chart.”

 

[Richard_arch74]

No, I never use SPORT Mode because I believe it leads to other questionable habits like smoking and drinking. This chart from the Owners Manual shows why I believe accelerator must be floored to get max power, but I'll admit you may be right and the chart might be wrong. If, indeed, you feel no additional acceleration in SPORT Mode after the click, then the chart is wrong.

I wondered where my desire to start smoking and drinking came from.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Inside EVs mobile app

 

[KentuckyKen]

No, I never use SPORT Mode because I believe it leads to other questionable habits like smoking and drinking.

And hanging out with that bad crowd at the gas pumps that your mother warned you about.

 

[MrFixit]

If, indeed, you feel no additional acceleration in SPORT Mode after the click, then the chart is wrong.

Although I have not personally explored this (drinking and smoking not in my nature), I think you may be interpreting the chart too literally. It is just a cartoon. If I looked at this chart, I would probably assume that it's scope is limited and it is only trying to show how these 3 modes affect the threshold for invoking the ICE. With your literal interpretation, you are arguing that once you pass the pedal click, there is still more linear range to get even more power? I tend to think the pedal click is 'all she wrote' (ie: there is no more power range beyond that click). Analogous to the old days... the throttle was already wide-open when you hit the kickdown to force the car into a lower gear.

 

[DC1]

I could be mis-understanding the phenomenon that OP described, but my personal understanding of how loud the engine becomes seems to be related to some sort of "ev reserve charge" that gets used when in HV and replenished in EV mode. This sounds odd, of course, and not really documented.

But basically if I've been driving on the highway in EV mode and then switch to HV mode, it starts out as pretty quiet. But then when I start to go up a decently long hill, there seems to come a point where the engine starts to sound pretty loud, and then if the upward hill continues on, at some point it becomes very loud. And once I hit it, even though I've already started my downhill descent, the engine stays loud. My solution in this case is to put the car into EV mode for a minute or so, and then switch back to HV mode. Then the engine noise becomes quiet again, but only if I've had it in EV mode for some small period of time. (If I just go into EV and come right back into HV in a few seconds, the engine continues to be louder than normal.)

This led me to believe that there is some sort of reserve EV power that's tapped when needed, and when that power is gone, the engine needs to work by itself, creating noisy and underpowered acceleration.